When is someone officially dead?

lisa — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 15:32:43 GMT

they are really dead when the coroner says
As Coroner I must aver, I thoroughly examined her ... and she's not only merely dead, but really most sincerely dead.

When is someone officially dead?

Keema — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 16:00:19 GMT

What about the guy in Oklahoma who was declared brain dead but came back to life? The doctor said it was faulty equipment but if it can happen once it can happen many many times. How do you know you arent killing someone when you start taking their organs if that major test of life can be faulty? I believed in organ donation up until I read that story.

When is someone officially dead?

josh smith, des moines, ia — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 16:04:49 GMT

this is a good argument as to why religion and government should not be mixed.

When is someone officially dead?

Ken Wilson, Springfield OR — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 16:11:13 GMT

S'OK, mon. People opt out of being organ donors for all sorts of reasons, religious and otherwise. Just support those who chose to donate, and make the process as equitable as possible.

When is someone officially dead?

R. O., Grand Rapids, Michigan — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 16:34:17 GMT

There are Christians, such as myself, who also believe that a person is dead only when his heart stops beating, because this indicates that the soul has departed the body. In addition to the Bible teaching us this, we know that this is true because there have been "brain dead" persons who have regained consciousness. The recent experience of Zach Dunlap provides an example. (You can read about it at http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/03/24/NotDead.ap/index.html Sorry, MSNBC. I couldn't find the story on your Web site.) Thus, to remove vital organs from a person before this point is effectively to kill him.

When is someone officially dead?

Mike Brooks, Eugene, Oregon — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 16:40:35 GMT

I had been an organ donor, something you can elect on your Oregon drivers license, since the program began. I have terminated that in light of recent stories about doctors prematurely declaring death to harvest organs for filthy rich patients. If I could, I would go "re-enlist" but would deny my oregans to anyone making mroe than $100,000 a year or anyone with a net worth in excess of $1,000,000. The wealthy snakes of this country, the Wall Street types, investors, and corporate officers, don't deserve to live.

When is someone officially dead?

Anne, New York, NY — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 16:49:09 GMT

So, what are the new guidelines?

When is someone officially dead?

Taylor Nichols, San Francisco, California — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 17:24:20 GMT

Wow, Mr. Brooks. Where did you learn such hate. You are a despicable human being, to say that one person doesn't deserve to live over another. You cannot blame all of those that make money for the faults and greed of some. And you cannot lump me in with that group, I am only 22 years old and make less than half of that $100,000 cutoff that you claim. You are a disgrace and I am truly appalled.

When is someone officially dead?

TCG, Louisville, KY — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 17:34:12 GMT

I am sorry that you believe anyone making over $100,000 is a snake. My wife is a caring pharmacist who is constantly looking for mistakes made that can be fatal if missed by the doctors and patients. According to you (Mike Brooks), she should not be rewarded for standing on her feet for 13 hours a day trying to make a difference in someone's life. She is also the nicest person that I have ever met with no enemies, except for you.

When is someone officially dead?

Jen, Cincinnati, Ohio — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 17:34:56 GMT

I work in a hospital and have been present for brain death tests. They are very vigorous and two are performed to ensure accuracy. The tests are not faulty. Bad doctors are the ones to blame for pronouncing that guy who wasn't truly brain dead. As for your organs going to rich people, that is absolutely false. Once someone is pronounced brain dead, the organ donation network takes over and must give the organs to the people highest on the list. The doctor that pronounced brain death has no involvement in the process and nurses, respiratory therapists, and other doctors are also present for brain death tests to ensure accuracy. Please, everyone become an organ donor and give the gift of life.

When is someone officially dead?

Mohammad, Los Angeles, CA — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 17:43:43 GMT

There was this guy in Oregon who was pronounced dead, and they were just about to harvest his organs when one of his relatives poked him with a knife because he felt the guy wasn't dead.

He was alive.

I don't agree with organ harvesting etc... because basically they get the organs when the person is brain dead, not when his heart has stopped, meaning the person is not dead in the first place and you are taking a wild risk.

The only solution would be stem cell research and cloning to provide artificial organs etc...

When is someone officially dead?

Nicki, Milwaukee, WI — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 17:49:30 GMT

Its sad to think that more and more people are removing themselves from donation lists.
Organ donations are a way to save human lives. I would never remove myself from a donation list and have complete faith my family, friends and doctors are smart enough to figure out if I'm still alive or not.
I hope I'm never in a positon where my life depends on some of you.

When is someone officially dead?

Paul, Dallas, TX — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 17:57:27 GMT

"The wealthy snakes of this country, the Wall Street types, investors, and corporate officers, don't deserve to live. "

Seriously? Wealthy or successful people don't deserve to live? What if they built it up themselves? I am nowhere near being considered rich by any means, and I still realize the absolutely large degree of stupidity it took to make that statement.

When is someone officially dead?

Angela B., Seattle WA — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 18:10:38 GMT

I believed in organ donation until 2 things happened:

1. My economics professor at Washington State University pointed out that your organs must be removed while you are still alive for the organs to be of any use at all, and,

2. I met a young man who had been in a vegetative state (a 'brain dead' coma) for 13 YEARS....and had then woken up, and become a (relatively) productive member of society again. True, he lived in a halfway house, but he was absolutely and most certainly a person with everything that goes with that.

Barring the presence of irreparable injury that renders life or improvement utterly impossible, I cannot imagine a situation where we KNOW that the brain will not recover. Even 'flatline' and coma are not irreversible.

I am not an organ donor. Because you don't get to stipulate "Only in the event of catastrophic and irreparable injury." It's a 'yes/no' question. And that's just not good enough for me.

When is someone officially dead?

Woopie!! — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 18:11:51 GMT

Have you seen Monkey Bone?? That guy had half of his organs already out "Chris Kattan" and Brandon Frasier took over his body... broken neck and all... Who says your not dead?? Hope you can't buy body parts over there like on the black market... boy that would suck.. now you would have to worry that you are going to come back from Isreal with a T-shirt that say's "I went to Isreal, got drugged, lost a kidney, woke up in a bathtub full of ice, and all I got was this stupid T-shirt" gees that was alot to think up while enjoying my lunch...

When is someone officially dead?

Anonymous — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 18:14:22 GMT

Above all else, guard your heart,
for it is the wellspring of life.

Proverbs 4:23 (New International Version)

When is someone officially dead?

Dean A. Nash — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 18:40:37 GMT

Here's how everyone can help solve this horrific problem...DONATE your "spare" kidney NOW, while you are still living.

What? You haven't heard? You only need one kidney to live a long and healthy life. What's more, if you are unfortunate enough to end up with kidney disease, your "spare" kidney will do you absolutely NO GOOD as EVERYONE with kidney disease loses BOTH kidneys. In that case, your best defense is offense. By giving away your spare kidney NOW, while it still has value, then perhaps you will encourage another kind soul to give you their spare should you need it due to kidney disease.

When is someone officially dead?

John Smith, Trenton, NJ — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 18:41:53 GMT

you are all missing the point. The rabbis are ruling bases on laws given from god that these people are alive. how can you know better than g-d we conlrols life. and why shouldnt the elected representitives of the people who want to listen to the rabbis not vote like them?

When is someone officially dead?

Dave,Okc,OK — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 18:49:10 GMT

The positive side is that the organs would be going to someone who ia actually going to live-keeping people alive just to keep them "alive" is torture. Breathing on a vent,tube feeedings,iv drugs to maintain blood pressure-the people who wake up from a persistant vegatative state are rare-Most hospitals have ethics committee along with the organ donation people, who work with the patients family and their wishes, so it is a controlled process.(accountalble)

When is someone officially dead?

KIMMY, OCALA FL — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 18:51:04 GMT

ORGAN DONATION IS CLOSE TO MY HEART. MY BEST FRIEND DIED WAITING ON A LIVER TRANSPORT. UNTIL YOU GO THOUGH SOMETHING LIKE THIS, IT'S EASY TO VIEW IT AND NOT WANT TO DO IT. I THINK THE SITUATION W/ ZACH DUNLAP WAS AN ISOLATED INCIDENT. DON'T GIVE UP ON ORGAN DONATION THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT NEED IT TO SAVE THERE LIVES. TALK TO YOUR FAMILIES SO THEY KNOW YOUR WISHES. I WOULD STILL WITHOUT A DOUBT DONATE MY ORGANS AND MY FAMILY KNOWS IT.

When is someone officially dead?

Keep Religion out of Government Baltimore MD — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 18:57:24 GMT

In America, which is not governed by any religion (supposedly) , the definition of brain death is defined by law and by medical practice; that is the way it should be. Israel has a different government.

As someone else wrote, once brain death occurs, if the decedent (a death certificate is issued w/ brain death) is a donor, the organ transplant group goes to work.
The founding fathers wrote about the danger of mixing religion and government and our Constitution specifically prohibits such laws. I am thankful to live in America.

When is someone officially dead?

KM, Texas — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 19:02:31 GMT

Oh for Heavens sake, people! Do you realize the number of organ donations that occur and the miniscule (by comparison) of instances like this? It's like saying you'll never fly in a plane because it might crash! Or you'll never swim becuase you might drown! Statistically you are far better off to become a donor and save multiple lives with your or your loved one's organs. I can't help but wonder if you were on the "waiting list" side of this argument if you'd feel the same way? I for one have been on a donor's list for my organs, marrow, and regularly give blood and plasma. I have warned my family that if they don't donate my organs when I die, I'll come back and haunt them! :-)

When is someone officially dead?

Robert F. Bowley Jr, Gadsden Alabama — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 19:19:14 GMT

As the father of a young woman who has had five wonderful years of life since receiving a double lung transplant, I feel I absolutely must comment on this.

As the son of man who died from mesothelioma while I held his hand as he took his last breaths, I know what it feels like to stand there while someone you deeply love is dying and there is no hope for a miracle.

I can feel empathy for almost every argument from both sides of this argument. The exception is Mr. Brooks. To you sir, I suggest you learn about the transplant process and then maybe, just maybe you will realize that the transplant process in this country takes absolutely no interest in how much money a recipient has, or makes. The only criteria is how sick are they. I watched a lot of people got through the transplant process in the three months that I cared for my daughter before and after her surgery. I can only remember one that made $100,000 and it sure was not my daughter or I.

In my case, I have written a living will which specifies exactly under what conditions my family can authorize life support to be withdrawn. That same document specifically says that at that moment any organ that I have can be harvested in the hopes that I can save another’s life.

I only hope that the politicians will stay out of it and let the doctors and my family follow my wishes.

For the record, my daughters new lungs are failing now, and if, and this is a big if, she can get strong enough to face the ordeal again, I pray that someone somewhere has also written a living will that will save her life once again.

As for that concept of not donating because you want to go to heaven unblemished, your body does not go anywhere when you die, except into a hole in the ground or a crematorium’s flames. Your soul, which can never be touched by any surgeon’s scalpel, is what might go to heaven.

When is someone officially dead?

donation yes — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 19:39:27 GMT

It is everyone's choice to be a donor or not. But, if those who choose to not be a donor get in a situation where they need an organ you will see how quickly they change their thinking. The way I see it is if I die I am not using it anyway. I might as well make someone else happy.

When is someone officially dead?

cdcameron — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 19:44:06 GMT

what is involved in cloning. From what I have read this too would be killing another.

When is someone officially dead?

Jacque, California — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 19:57:20 GMT

I believe death happens when the heart stops beating. I am on the CA Donor Registry and believe that those they select are done so are without discrimination of any kind.

However, the Oregon man who feels that people of financial means should be excluded from receiving transplants is sad and troubling. In America it is no surprise that due to the high cost of medicine and health care even the well to do likely could not afford both the surgery and lifetime aftercare. People with the financial means you mentioned are not considered wealthy in today's criteria. All people are deserving of a chance at life regardless of financial status. Judging based on personal opinion or the inappropriate actions of a few from some sensationalized news source is just plain ignorant.

When is someone officially dead?

Jonathan, Atlanta, GA — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 19:59:16 GMT

Ignoring the unscrupulous, wouldn't a doctor who was concerned for his own soul want religious direction as to what constituted death? The issue is not just limited to the death of the patient but also impacts the conscience of the doctor. Although this matter might be adjudicated by the government, a G-d fearing person must look to his religious dictates and not those of the government.

When is someone officially dead?

Lynn, Penns Creek, PA — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 20:07:23 GMT

Donating your organs is one of the greatest gifts you can give to someone. In death only the spirit survives and the body begins to decay including the organs. If you fail to donate them someone who had a chance to live may not be far behind.

I have a relative that, through the generosity of another, received a new heart. That was one of the most unselfish acts that a grieving family could ever do.

Donate your organs, they will be of no use to you once the brain is gone because, you as the person everyone knew no longer exists. And yes I am an organ donor along with everyone in my family. It is my hope that when I don't need the body parts anymore that someone else can have a better life!

When is someone officially dead?

Noneya, Holyoke, MA — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 20:17:23 GMT

My husband's organs were donated and I have regretted it every minute since. Not because I didn't want to help people in need. But because the organ/tissue donation people took more than were authorized (they were told small bones and took his pelvis). And they sent me a very clinical checklist - mailed the day BEFORE his funeral. How would you like to get that in the mail the day you buried what was left of your husband???

When is someone officially dead?

Thomasina LaVita ,Fairfield Ala — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 20:19:13 GMT

Please stop trying to play God,by giving each other organs.We are going to have a lot to pay for when Jesus returns.If God wants us to live we will.God don,t make mistakes.He gave each person the organ he wanted us to have.When our time is up,it is up.

When is someone officially dead?

SDA, Colton, CA — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 20:21:00 GMT

The man declared dead before "coming back to life" was incorrectly screened. The diagnosis was inconsistant with the American Academy of Neurology's criteria of brain death. Namely in that the doctors declared him dead before the prescribed amount of time had passed. This was a case of mistaken (and premature) diagnosis.
Additionally, there are many cases in which brain electrical activity has been known to cease or drop below normally detectable levels and then be restored.
Brain death is the complete cessation of all brain activity (electrical, blood flow, etc). When this occurs, it is unconscionable to preserve the function of organs that could save the lives of others.

When is someone officially dead?

millieww@hotmail.com — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 20:33:12 GMT

When is someone officially dead?

jason p Jackson — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 20:39:42 GMT

Hey Taylor; Doctors make those kinds of decisions all the time and nobody considers them "despicable human being". I always get a kick out of one self righteous and judgmental hypocrite calling someone else a self righteous and judgmental hypocrite.

When is someone officially dead?

Anne, NJ — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 20:48:30 GMT

When a person is brain dead, there's no coming back from that. Even if your heart is still beating, our brain is what makes us a person. Without it, we're just flesh and bone. Nothing more. Religion or not, the heart is nothing but a muscle. There's no connection between our heart and our soul. If anything, it would have to be the brain. If someone was mistakenly declared brain dead and was actually alive, that's got to be a one in a million mistake. There are numerous checks in place to make sure nothing like that happens. The doctor doesn't even know the patient is an organ donor, so that organ harvesting does not happen. Of course there are unscrupulous doctors, but a very small number.

I'm appalled at the opinions of some people with respect to organ donation. Utterly appalled. Thousands and thousands of people are waiting in the US, while uninformed or misinformed people decide that they don't care enough about their fellow man to give them the greatest gift a person could ever possibly receive. My 30 year old best friend's life was saved by a heart transplant last year, and every day she's so, so thankful to be here. Her donor is an absolute hero to her.

I can guarantee you that the transplant waiting list is on a first come first served basis and has no consideration for how much money you have. All that matters is how long you've been listed, where you are, and how sick you are. Period. Check out the info on optn.org. There's some staggering data on there.

Personally, I'm listed as an organ donor, and I think the best move the country could make would be to change the laws so that only people listed as organ donors could be organ recepients. Maybe then thousands of people wouldn't die every day waiting.

It blows my mind that with the technology we have that can replace someone's heart with the heart of another person, that the limiting factor to the success of organ donation is the number of donors. People die every second of every day. We should have an organ surplus. But we don't. It's a sad commentary on society.

You just never know if it's going to be you on that list. Do you want to hear about how there aren't enough organs while you're on your death bed? I don't.

When making the decision to be an organ donor - do some actual research. Don't listen to what you hear on TV or what other people say. In fact, here's a link: http://www.donatelife.com

Make up your mind only when you have the facts. Better yet, go talk to someone lying in a hopsital bed waiting for a transplant. I guarantee that it will affect you. At least as a donor, I know that when I die, at least part of me will live on and help someone else.

When is someone officially dead?

Susan T Moreno Valley California` — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 21:17:44 GMT

Well maybe when we get that idiot out of the White House and Stop letting the Regilous Zelots run our lives and use our God Given Brains to know that Organ donation and Stem Cells transplant and research is needed to help save the lives of us all and start donating the Organ of Our Love One so that we will always have a part of our Love Ones Present we will get rid of Some of the Hurt that goes on in this world
I am an organ and bone marrow and long bone Donnor

When is someone officially dead?

AY , Washoe Valley, NV — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 21:29:58 GMT

I am an organ donor. I like to think that in the event I am declared brain-dead both the unknown recipients and my family can continue to live when I am gone. I would not want the years to pass while I languished in a bed causing my family pain and guilt.

When is someone officially dead?

jdtseattlewa — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 21:36:05 GMT

Taylor, he's from Oregon! 'nuff said

When is someone officially dead?

Dave, Toronto, Ontario — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 21:41:37 GMT

"If God wants us to live we will.God don,t make mistakes."

Agreed, he gave us the knowledge that makes organ transplantation possible. It would be wrong not to use all the knowledge we were given to save lives. I trust that the incidence of being incorrectly pronounced dead is very low and that the benefits far outweigh the risks.

When is someone officially dead?

jdtseattlewa — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 22:03:04 GMT

Hooray Susan T!!
SDA, a question, what is the mechanism by which blood flow would stop reaching the brain (in your listed criteria) I know there is a blood/brain barrier in life...but..

When is someone officially dead?

Wm. P. Lightner — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 22:16:24 GMT

I was told that you signed the contract you're fighting in ( Country ). Loss life and loss of donors. I signed the donor card and anyone one who can use what is left is welcome to it. Those who oppose it are the first ones to want a transplant because no one wants to die if it can be prevented.Between the military and my own abuse, my offal should be used just like any other USDA approved offal.

When is someone officially dead?

Rob, VA — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 22:20:50 GMT

To be honest, If I wind up badly injured enough that the docs can't decide if I am dead or not It suits me for them to go ahead and declare me dead and give my organs to someone else. I have already told my family that if I ever wind up in a vegetative state they are to PULL THE PLUG, and donate my organs.

When is someone officially dead?

Rob, VA — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 22:26:15 GMT

To the person who said:

"My daughter was a doner, but I didn't let them because they were going to take organs before she was deceased."

I can't believe you did not honor what was basicly your daughter's final request!

When is someone officially dead?

Philip S. — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 22:26:39 GMT

Doctors and hospitals get paid for their contribution to organ transplants. I will consider donating my organs when donors get some kind of compensation. Doctors put fluids in people before they are dead, and they declare early brain-death because the doctor expects to make money from the transplant.

When is someone officially dead?

J.C. Wyoming — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 22:49:31 GMT

Be glad you don't live in Communist China where state prisoners are exacuted and their oragans are sold by the state!!!!!

When is someone officially dead?

Robert F, Pittsburgh, Pa — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 22:57:31 GMT

I used to believe in organ donation until someone close to me needed a heart. My father who was 48 at the time had several heart attacks and the doctors told us that the only way he would live is if he was given a heart transplant. Of course we jumped at the chance wanting to see a family member live, but when the board that reviewed his case denied us we were devastated. Their reason? He was too much of a risk for a transplant at 48 and that he wouldnt live long enough to get full use out of the heart. Ever since that day I will never and I do mean never give any organs for a transplant because of how cold hearted those people can be.

When is someone officially dead?

K, Cordova TN — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 23:23:05 GMT

I think the Drs. shoild figure out a way to use organs from deceased people, not tale them from brain dead people, the brain is only part of a person. If they can shock a heaart back, then they can use a heart that has stopped. My daughter was a doner,but I didn't let them because they were going to take organs before she was deceased. Find another way. fNfot many familys can do this.

millieww@hotmail.com (Sent Friday, April 04, 2008 4:33 PM)

I think its sad that you didn't follow your daughters wishes...I am a donor and if my family didn't release my organs...I think I'd come back and haunt them.

When is someone officially dead?

Mark F, Meadville, PA — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 23:31:28 GMT

I have a very personal stake in this discussion, since my daughter received a heart transplant when she was 17 years old (8 years ago.) My daughter and I speak in our region about the obvious benefits of organ donation. There are few more sacred moments in life than when someone is being declared dead for the purpose of organ donation. But due to the shortage of available organs, there are actually efforts at the national level to expand the definition of when organs can be harvested. The process must stand the highest and most vigorous scrutiny possible. Then we can put an end to the urban legends that have become real-life tragedies in the past couple of years.

When is someone officially dead?

Jake, Waterloo, IA — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 23:33:42 GMT

Some numbers to keep in mind if you're worried about people dying unnecessarily:

1. Donated organs save ~ 22,000 people every year.

2. Medical mistakes injure ~ One Million (1,000,000) Americans every year and roughly 120,000 die from those injuries/mistakes.

We need to do better with both of the above.

Organ transplants carry their own risks to the recipients. Everything from organ rejection to infections to cancer.

Latest story is from SAG HARBOR, N.Y., (story) dated April 1, 2008 - Fifteen-year-old Alex Koehne died and his organs were donated to four people. Two died and two are in chemotherapy right now due to rare and fast-moving lymphoma cancer that wasn't recognized when he died and wasn't caught/screened when organs were harvested.

When is someone officially dead?

Jeff, St. Paul, MN — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 23:50:09 GMT

Donation of organs is nobody's business but themselves without any pressure whatsoever. I have no clue how such a decision can be made ahead of time. And, I have no clue how many thousands (millions) of lives have been taken because a decision was made too quickly. Organ replacement should no longer rely on other human sacrifices.

The real problem is the continued lack of funding in all medical arenas. The capitalistic system is the best devised in the history of man. However, even best systems have flaws. The government keeps passing bills in the belief that lawyers are right. More recently, the government has been passing laws with the belief that religious people know what is best.

Neither happens to be the case, and that is why we spend billions on oil fighting a war, we slow down medical research, we never solve issues such as social security funding. Similarly, that is why we are damaging this country with biofuel expenses that are drastically driving up food, food and living costs when we should be focused on solar. The oil companies apparently can't make much money on solar. I could go on.

Perhaps we need to look at the past success of challenging our children? Our children proposed finding the new world and our nation was born sometime later. Our children were challenged to stop a war and they unleashed the most powerful weapon then know to man. Our children were challenged to go to space and produced an explosion of micro technology from minis to PC to laptops to cell phone to ipods. And, our children were finally challenged to do for millions what government had taken billions to do - go to space.

Perhaps what we need to do is say, "here's XXX millions of dollars for the first company to grow a replacement heart". It would probably be done in a couple years and heart donations would no longer be needed.

Instead, in so many ways, government spends billions nickel-ing and dime-ing our government designated research organizations to death. I'll use NASA as the example. If NASA started today to build SpaceShipOne, it would cost billions and take far more years than the private-sector used to get the job done. On the other end, government decides in its infinite wisdom to stick with old technology for decades and then decides to throw 8,000 people out of work in a few years.

It makes no sense! Instead government should say, "we have no idea how to get . . . (whatever) . . . done. We want it and here's the challenge. Meet the challenge and you get paid this ungodly amount of money." And, the government spends less. Taxes can be cut and government services improved.

I will never ever believe in big government. It did not even see 9/11 coming. It does not see the possibilities for life-extension. It is not capable of planning past the next election cycle. If we continue to accept without changing the best economic system in the world, no one in the universe will ever know that humans existed. And, that would be a far bigger shame than the fact we need American Idol to increase donations for those truly in need in this world.

When is someone officially dead?

Jim Langworthy Frenchburg, Ky. — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 23:53:00 GMT

Sorry I don't belive in transplant, if your organs were meant to be transplanted, why do you have to take anti rejection drugs, it is because GOD and or nature did not intend for this to happen

When is someone officially dead?

christopher smith — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 23:55:53 GMT

I see people talking about people who were presumed dead but found to be alive, who can't even give name as to who this was let alone a source for the claim. Passing around Urban Legends isn't critical thinking.

When is someone officially dead?

Randy — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 00:27:44 GMT

In any Christian religion, I can't think of one reason why we can't have our bodies donated 100% to science. It should be assumed the dead body is going to be donated unless a blood relative (wife or child, sister, brother) can submitt real medical evidence why the body should not be. It would then be upto the medical team to evaluate the claim. It's obscene funerals cost 10k plus just for a few hours of greiving. And think of how many good stories come out of the donation of body parts.

When is someone officially dead?

Jae, Seattle, WA — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 00:52:27 GMT

The thing that I always end up thinking when the more strident of us start going on about this issue:

People die, all right? They _die._ Things stop working. Things sometimes stop working long before they quote-unquote should. That sucks, the world is unfair, you can cry and moan and beg all you want about it and it does not change the fact that YOU ARE GOING TO DIE. I'm actually okay with that. I'll do what I can to keep myself healthy, and I won't turn away from reasonable amounts of medical care, but there comes a point when I'd rather let the ship go down gracefully than spend all my energy flailing, splashing and pleading for someone to pull me out of the water with their very last breath.

This is why I find the self-righteous guilt trips about organ donation absolutely gruesome. Anyone who treats their fellow man like they have no value to society except as a spare-part factory disgusts me. Those people who give of themselves freely deserve respect, but those who demand it of others are getting none of mine. And we could all stand to remember the following:

No one in the world has ever died because they didn't get an organ donation. They died because their own organs failed. It _happens._ The kind of screaming that goes on sometimes about organ donations only sounds to me like we're trying to blame someone else for not saving ourselves from our own mortality, which is just ugly. Acts of real, willing kindness should be treasured; awareness of what we _can_ do for others should be kept high, so everyone can make the best-informed decisions and have the opportunity to give whatever they choose; and in the meantime, since no matter what, we're all ending up in the same place eventually, we still need to learn to come to terms with our own fate with a little more grace.

When is someone officially dead?

goldennickle — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 01:17:52 GMT

i was in an accident may 13 04. southern ohio med center called in my family an had a preacher over me . he was doing his thing an i was ok with it an accepted my fate . i could hear everything being said around me . i was at peace knowing my daughter would be alright . it was when i heard the doctor say "prep him" i want to remove his liver , that i mustered up enough strength to yell, you cannot have my body parts . i woke up at cable hosp in huntington west V.
tpday this haunts me . anyone else???????

When is someone officially dead?

JE — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 01:25:00 GMT

I agree with Brooks to a certain point. Rich people buy their way through life at the expense of financially challenged people. I wouldnt say one life is more valuable than another, but when it comes to money...they will do ANYTHING to get what they want...but they really arent to blame...its the money hungry doctors, lawyers or whomever is being bought off without morals. But then again, who wouldnt, if they had money, pay off to get what we want? Saints...that's about it!!!

When is someone officially dead?

Warbaine, Seattle, Wash. — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 02:17:28 GMT

Keep in mind that the organs they're taking out will probably save someones life. Considering how many people need organ donations and how many come back from being brain dead. I think its better for them to do it immediately. Besides which the organ donor knows the risks involved.

When is someone officially dead?

H. Estes Sr., Snyder, OK — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 02:36:18 GMT

The guy in OK doesn't count. Most folks there act brain-dead as a matter of course. It is really hard to tell in OK who is brain-dead and who is not. Take my son, for instance. Please.

When is someone officially dead?

shila — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 02:46:17 GMT

i dont belive in donate organs : and i feel the ones who are geting it as a gift have to pay a furtune for it in wich is a great busnis . brain dad ;no not dead. heart dead yes dead. and for to have a second choise to preformed or not. my sisters brother an law was pronounced brain dead. doctors did all the studies to find the couse ,could not find non. but yet he was in a coma. after two months he walked up healthy as never before. even feelt hungry . so if there is lots of politica about it . i dont thrust these donation of organs . as people are not yet so evelutioned as not to mix in it economical profeting. i belive the goverment should promote cience to find other alternatives then taking the organs from one to other to survive. the problem is that is more easy and economical profetable for them if is taken from a lving been. the most dangurous animal in these huge sealed one blessed univrse.... is human been. wich has the greed of succes even if in expenses of hurting others. that is including the ones called them selfes decent ones and the ones not. by the way just giving a look for human rights wich are the first ones to defend and see the well been of criminals. all is about politics !!!!!

When is someone officially dead?

carmen springfield MO — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 02:48:48 GMT

I dont think this is really a religious issue at all. Science has PROVEN that a person is not always DEAD when they are diagnosed as brain dead. There have been some that have recovered. Therefore, brain dead is NOT dead.
Heart stops beating long enough, that is dead. No religion involved there. Muslims, Christians, Jews and Hindus all die when the heart stops...
I too do not wish to donate because of these wack-o ideas doctors have.

When is someone officially dead?

goldennickle portsmouth ohio — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 02:52:31 GMT

i had an accident may 13 04. i knew i was in pretty bad shape. when i was in southern ohio med center , a preacher over me . i could hear everything being said . i was in peace with myself knowing my daughter was going to be ok. they had called in my family .only afterward did i find out how bad the hosp was saying i was in . but i heard the doctor tell someone " prep him, i am taking his liver" with that, i mustered enough strength to yell: you cannot have my body parts . i woke up in cabble hosp in
west V 3 days later .any one else????
i still wake up at night in chills.

When is someone officially dead?

Monte Haun Knoxville, TN — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 02:52:32 GMT

"Personally, I'm listed as an organ donor, and I think the best move the country could make would be to change the laws so that only people listed as organ donors could be organ recepients. Maybe then thousands of people wouldn't die every day waiting."

I've got a better idea, no one who would be ineligible for a transplant for financial reasons should feel obliged to donate his own.

A Tempest in a teapot anyhow, when the Israeli Jews need organs, they just shoot a Palestinian kid in the head.

What about Mickey Mantle and Governor Casey of PA? There is nothing fair in this country including (especially) medical care.

Monte Haun mchaun@hotmail.com

When is someone officially dead?

carmen springfield MO — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 02:54:25 GMT

I believe organ transplants should only be done on those with enough money to take care of the organ after they get it. I have known people who received organ transplants and then couldn't afford the lifelong required medicines afterward, and died. What a waste of an organ. If their insurance, or other programs can't pay the upkeep, what is the use of wasting the organ, not to mention getting some one's hopes up and that of their families only to see them struggle to pay the meds, and eventually die anyway?

When is someone officially dead?

carmen springfield MO — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 02:59:51 GMT

Oh, another thought, the heart is not just a muscle. It supplies the brain with oxygen. This keeps the brain alive, so even if the person is declared 'brain dead' the brain is technically not dead. Notice how a 'brain dead' person can live years and the brain does not decay in their skull. That's because it's not dead.
Next, science is making alot of progress in treating brain injuries, and the promise of stem cell research could lead to even more treatments. If my SON were declared brain dead, I would try to keep him ALIVE. Who knows, maybe 10 or 20 years from now, they will be able to repair the injury and he would recover? That wouldn't happen if he were killed to harvest organs prematurely.

When is someone officially dead?

Cynthia — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 05:29:23 GMT

Fortunately, I have never been faced with either of the heart-wrenching situations. Anne, I wish your message, so eloquently and simply stated, could reach so many more. Educate yourself before making a decision.. if it is not for you.. well, we cannot fault you for that, at least it was an educated decision.

Robert.. I pray for your daughter.. thank you also for taking the time to share.

When is someone officially dead?

Dominique La Breur — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 05:54:36 GMT

Religious people are not rational beings. Stop them from making ethical decisions on organ donations and stem cell research. If you believe in God use the wonderful brain that God gave you and grow organs in the lab. We will be able to treat every illness and
extend life. When scientists have their hands free from all the religious idiots, humanity will benefit.

When is someone officially dead?

Ed Egan, Rock Hill, SC — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 07:14:28 GMT

My son died 5 years ago today at the age of 29 while waiting for a donor heart. Believe me, I would have given him my own. Instead, I stood at his side as he died and my heart broke.

When is someone officially dead?

Carlos H. Dovalina Laredo, Texas — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 07:40:31 GMT

How many human beings do you know that have died from cancer or other diseases of the soul? Returning to the point here , have been declared dead because their soul is dead ,or have had their soul harvested?

When is someone officially dead?

Read People, Protect church from State! — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 07:42:27 GMT

Pay attention, who ever said to keep church out of Government.. you need to re-read the constitution. It says that the church should not be subject to the Government. That law was to protect the churches from Government rule which is why our founding Fathers created the constitution. Good grief people! Read!

When is someone officially dead?

Carlos H. Dovalina Laredo , Texas — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 08:02:03 GMT

Am I correct in stating that a human heart removed from a living person will continue to function for some undetermined amount of time . Medical professionals ,please educate the masses.

When is someone officially dead?

John Sloan, Piedmont, SC — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 09:14:34 GMT

Mike, does that 1 million net worth include retirement 401K's, etc? If someone works hard and saves they might have home equity..So if someone spends all their money on loose women and fast cars, booze and cigarettes they should get the transplant, while someone that lives in a modest home and scrimps and saves their whole life they don't get one...That is the way our government works now with tax rebates, etc but it isn't entirely fair to workers.

When is someone officially dead?

Mrs. M, Hawaii — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 09:25:17 GMT

For those of you who are in "perfect health"... just think... what if you did have some disease where you would die a painful death if you didnt get an organ... or say that (GOD forbid) a loved one needed an organ... What would you want?

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

I am a donor and I belive with all my heart that if I can help someone live then that is one of the ultimate gifts!
Thanks

When is someone officially dead?

Anne Cain,Hillside, Il — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 09:51:16 GMT

I am not an organ donor and I don't want to be. I would rather be buried or cremated with my God given organs.

When is someone officially dead?

Carol Powell — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 10:27:52 GMT

When our granddaughter died we tried to donate her organs but she had contacted sepsis from heart-lung machine. I would give anything to know that someone was looking out at the world with her beautiful blue eyes. We only have our memories of a small six month old who would have been alive had a heart been found in time. Yes, we are are on a harvest any useable parts list but I too would feel more secure about it if test were done over a certain length of time, and each time by a different doctor. Make sure I am dead then you may have what is left.

When is someone officially dead?

Maggie — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 11:14:41 GMT

All I know is my brother was declared brain dead and the doctor gave orders for his machine to be turned off when my husband who was at his bedside saw his left foot move! He went on to live for 10 years.

When is someone officially dead?

Carol K, Cedar Hill, Texas — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 12:02:02 GMT

I believe to be an organ donator is a blessing from God. Life is a gift from God and we take so much for granted. We do not want to think about dying and everyone's hope is to live a long and happy life. But life changes everyday - something unexpected happens and now we need a miracle to live. Bless those who are unselfish enough to think of others and wish to be able to help someone else live a full and long life because they were not as fortunate.

Be thankful for the life you have and live every day to the fullest. Then, when you go to be with your Lord, you will be in his hands, living a wonderful new life. Your previous body will go away. If there is any part that will help save another, be thankful you were born to be there for someone else. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ - one family. Take care of yourselves and each other.

Stem Cell Research is a gift from God. To be able to grow an ear or an organ is amazing. People all want to live and enjoy Life to the fullest. If they grow bodies just for harvest, I do not agree with that. That is very sad to think about. Life is to be lived and enjoyed - and we should watch out for one another. Not judge someone because of money, etc. We will not be here to worry about it anyway.

Take care of yourselves and love one another.

When is someone officially dead?

Tiger, Florida — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 12:37:54 GMT

Mike Brooks is an IDIOT. If it wasn't for those rich people making and investing their money he wouldn't have this great CAPITALIST country to live in.

When is someone officially dead?

Delaware — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 12:46:28 GMT

I work for a large hospital and have witnessed what it takes to declare a person dead (in any form). At any given time during the process there are at least 7-10 different medical professionals evaluating data and making a determination and/ or administering life saving techniques. Except in the event of the elderly where there is a DNR request in place, every effort is made to revive the patient. The code team of 20 professionals that answers the call has no idea of person's financial or job status. The answer the call to save a life and come from every area/ specialty of the hospital. It is a moving experience to watch so many dedicated people work together with such skill to save someone else.

I can not image a case where someone in a trauma situation could be declared brain dead in error. I believe this was an isolated incident. I am an organ donor because I believe everyone deserves the chance of life if God created a human being capable of preforming this miracle. I am not overly religious, but I believe there is a higher being at work in all situations.

I do agree that Organ Donor representatives tend to be very aggressive after someone is declared dead, but this is because there is a window of opportunity. So please make sure your loved ones know your wishes, as we never know what will happen and when. If you wish to donate, the discussion time within your family does waste precious minutes.

Please be safe to all!

When is someone officially dead?

pat, Columbus, MS — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 12:56:49 GMT

"idiots, zealots, etc..." What name throwing, people bashing is going on here?

It seems that much consideration should be applied to the entire process here.

As a health care professional myself, AND a Christian, I am not sure where the lines are. I, too, have considered being an organ donor. This article has given me cause for pausing to reconsider my thoughts, NOT saying I'm changing my mind, just re assessing. (do you ever check your bank balance? same thing just a different department of life.)

I lost my mom to an extended illness ten years ago, having done everything I could have done to care for her, for comfort and wellbeing. I learned much from having her in my home on hospice. The Bible talks about the Lord having "numbered our days" but I learned that He also has numbered our very breaths, not taking us one breath too soon nor leaving us one breath beyond what we should have. Too many times the hospice nurses thought Mother was entering the final phase of the death process and things would turn around; so many times that, even with their many years of experience, they quite trying to read the signals and predict what was going on. She broke all the records.

Thank you for writing and publishing a very thought provoking article. This article, itself, has passed no judgement or cast any ridicule upon any one; it simply shared information.

We (people) are called to be aware,knowledgable, and responsible in the choices we make (whether it is smoking, eating, drinking, etc.) I see this article simply as part of that educational process that gives me insight into another view of the options and responsibilities I have in this area of life.

When is someone officially dead?

LarryC Dallas,Texas — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 13:03:59 GMT

This is a typical problem when logic is presented to people that try to model their decisions off a 2000 year old fairy tale.

When is someone officially dead?

Pat Scully, boston, MA — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 13:15:37 GMT

Hey Mike Brooks from Oregon:

I make over $100,000 a year & I could not bribe a doctor to get me a liver.

After taxes, mortage (on an 1800 Sf house, no McMansion) Heating oil, gas, preschool & on & on I am by no means rich. I request you up your limit to around $250,000 a year.

When is someone officially dead?

Craig W. — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 14:09:45 GMT

I remember as a kid, there was a head stone on a grave that read "Remember friends as you pass by, as you are now, so once was I, as I am now, soon you will be, prepare thyself and follow me." I sounds a trumpet that no matter what, regardless of transplants and medical science, we all die. The choice to postpone the inevitable for another person is personal and despite the debate we all do what our inner voice tells us to. Whether you view death as deserving of your creator "The wages of sin is death" or view it as a way that mother nature can make room for and improve upon future generations of human beings, it will happen. My recommendation is to make a differnce in your lives while you are living that resolves pointless death. Care for one another, pray for your enemies, be reconcillatory. An organ transplant may save one, attitudes can save thousands.

When is someone officially dead?

Evie, Manchester — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 14:28:39 GMT

How can the relatives of organ donars stop people donating, if they want to can they actually do anything about it?

When is someone officially dead?

Vincent Nesheim, Sioux Falls, SD — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 14:34:05 GMT

I think some people have a slight misunderstanding of the difference between "persistant vegitative state (PVS)" and "brain dead".

Persistant vegitative state refers to someone who is comatose and lacks normal rsponse to stimuli, but is not "brain dead". PVS is a condition that may or may not resolve. There are still some responces, normal or abnormal that indicate some are of the brain functions.

Brain dead indicates that all areas of the brain and brain stem are inactive and indicates a very grave prognosis.

When is someone officially dead?

Sharon Sarver, Marietta, Mississippi — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 14:46:03 GMT

I have read the good and bad of the organ transplant system. Brain dead is not heart dead! As long as the heart is beating the person is alive. I have never been or will I ever be an organ donor.

A transplanted organ only extends the life of the recipient a few years. A quality of life for the recipient? Maybe and maybe not. Potential wrong to the donor? Maybe and maybe not.

Find and cure the diseases that kill, stop the crimes that kill, slow the traffic down that can kill, and I'm sure there are many other ways to stop the problems of those dying too soon and needing a transplant.

We seem to be inept at avoiding problems, but find it easier to find solutions. Don't fix it, just replace it.........wrong attitude for all.

When is someone officially dead?

G Keogh, Croghan, NY — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 15:02:32 GMT

Organs(corneas, bone, skin and others) may be harvested after heart stopping death. Other organs kidneys, lungs and hearts are usually taken from someone who is brain dead and is on life support. These organs can also be taken from someone who had died from cardiac arrest providing the death has occured recently but it is prefered to have the tissues that are perfused.

When is someone officially dead?

Ken W Springfield OR — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 15:09:37 GMT

Re: the comments on economic status of organ recipients. Mr Brooks takes it too far, but there are considerations given to the economic status of the recipients, as well as their lifestyle. Organs may not be given to those unable to afford a lifetime of anti-rejections medications, and organs are certainly withheld from those who will not change their lifesytle, ie, alcoholics or drug addicts. The acceptance criteria are broad, but not without boundaries. I speak as one who assists in the procedure of determining brain death in appropriate patients in our ICU.

When is someone officially dead?

Mary — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 15:17:58 GMT

they have to have three brain wave flat before can pronounce dead in this country and two doctors . It is safe to do it. yes there has been a few people with one brain wave flat but not three flat brain waves. and if you are going to donate a part to save a life, this i all explained to family. no one is just pulled off suport systems on one flat brain wave and these have to be done at different times.If I had three flat brain waves then my donation would be made. I am a signed donor if have anything any good for someone. it is safe in this country. look it up

When is someone officially dead?

Barbara C. — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 15:20:29 GMT

Some replies have been informative, some bear thoughtful reflection and some are ridiculous in my VERY HUMBLE OPINION... as in the case of the "$100,000 recipients....hahahahhaa....

But what prompts my out loud laughter and my response is Susan's posted reply... SO now we are blaming the idiot in the White House when we are on the verge of voting another "idiot" into the White House, who, I am sure will become the "idiot" responsible for the outcome of all things.
"I" am NOT sure whether there IS an idiot in the White House... Perhaps what makes him who is presently there, or he/she who might be there next, an idiot is that they desire to be placed in the "idiot" spot in the WHite House.... to get blamed for everything, including things like organ doantion.... Truly, I chuckled aloud at the thought that the PRESIDENT is the truly remarkable culprit in the scheme of donating organs.

I can just "see" the stiff neck as some of these proclamations are issued as if to say, "if they would just ALL do what "I" think is right...."

GET AS GRIP! It's a personal decision, PERIOD. Do your own research into reputable source places (NOT from the "mothers'/wives'" tales that abound. Once the personal decision is made, families are informed and if the personal decision is a strong conviction of RIGHT FOR ME or YOU, then no argument will change our minds. All will then just be "interesting discussion."

When is someone officially dead?

Sandra Johnson, Houston, Texas — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 15:21:35 GMT

Hummmmmmm - I am an organ donor - I don't care who gets what as I will not need anything. If the medical profession is not smart enough to know when a person is "dead", we have more problems than donating organs.

When is someone officially dead?

Janet. California — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 15:47:40 GMT

I am an organ donor and I have lived my life my way and would change nothing, If a Dr says I am dead then so be it, if my organs can help another person live a long life then I have done something good for man kind. Something that goes on way to little in the world today!!!

When is someone officially dead?

Steve, Exuma Bahamas — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 15:48:31 GMT

I too, am for organ donation. However, like some on this post I don't think that someone is dead until their heart stops beating. My friend Michelle was pronounced brain dead and had been living on a ventilator for a while. Her family and doctors were finally about to pull the plug but she woke up, and lived for twelve years more! Not only did she live, but she was able to walk with a walker, she talked normally, laughed, and enjoyed life despite some setbacks. I believe in God and that the prayers of the church made the difference. Sometimes God answers yes and sometimes no to each persons situation.

When is someone officially dead?

Orrin Townswick Sioux Falls, South Dakota — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 15:54:29 GMT

My opinion is not completely on organ donation but rather what makes you dead. I watched both of my parents die and it was exactly the same. They were brain dead several hours before the heart stopped beating. During that time you could see life existing. As I watched each of them to take their last breath and the heart came to a stop they didn't look dead at that particular time. I am not sure it took several minutes but some place in that time as we looked the other way crying on each others shoulder and then looked back at them again you saw the real death. It was so much different. You can say that the body needs to coast down or what ever you want to say but
I am a Christian and as far as I am concerned that huge change was when the soul left the body. That is the point you are really dead. My dad was a little different and no it was NOT my imagination. I felt NOT saw FELT four angels in the room two were taking him to heaven and the other two were with us giving us comfort. The two giving us comfort stayed for maybe 10 minutes before I felt their presence had left us. Comments being made this is why we should not mix government and religion bother me from the point that the suggestion is those of us who have a strong religion should put our religion second to succumbing to the government. NOT IN MY BOOK. I do not think if we make a choice to allow our organs to be harvested that God is going to send us to hell for doing so. I do believe however, as a family it is probably not our call. This should be a personal choice ourselves as individuals and let our family know that is our personal choice to have our organs harvested. I don't think if I was pushed to donate the organs of my loved one and my loved one had never said this is what they want, that I could do that. I would feel guilty for ever on making a decision that they did not want. To me the answer on this whole topic is if you want your organs donated, then you tell your closest family that if something should happen this is your wish. Don't say nothing and put them on the spot to make such a decision. Do it yourself and let people know about it in advance. Using the excuse when we are all well that we cannot discuss topics such as this at family gatherings is just that, AN EXCUSE. You better believe things like this should be discussed at family gatherings and if you are a Christian Easter Sunday dinner is when it should really be discussed. Ignoring these issues on the premise we don’t want to ruin our Easter Sunday dinner is just plain stupid. Get it out in the open and let people know what you want done if something happens is the true answer of this whole topic.

When is someone officially dead?

Karl Schoenhof — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 16:15:11 GMT

IF the heart is still beating ? AM I crazy to let masacre MY FAMILY MEMBER ? Beside all and above all : I want to go out of this world when the time comes, with ALL MY ORGANS INTACT ! Those who have an illness, need a NEW ORGAN ? Well, NOT ftom me and MY
family ! "WE ALL, DECIDED AN THAT ONE" ! NO DONATION of anykind !

When is someone officially dead?

Rebecca Wilson, RN, Salem OR — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 16:20:52 GMT

Economics most certainly do play a factor in who receives organs. If a patient cannot afford the surgery or the anti-rejection medications, they are not given the organs. Period. While many folks have fundraisers, rely on donations, etc to achieve the financial status to proceed with a transplant, dollars still trump all. Medicare will pay for a liftime of dialysis for a low income or indigent person, but NOT for a kidney transplant.

When is someone officially dead?

Patricia, California — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 17:27:19 GMT

Irreparable damage marks the entry point to the fouth dimension. The ileum is best to understand the spiritual heart of things, scriptually the human heart is only as good as it eats, there-to-fore only the father would "know" when to present salvation.
Hebrews 2:9

When is someone officially dead?

jean,hillsboro,or — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 17:48:05 GMT

Only God know how many days we were given, life is so precious we do not know when it could be our last, love your family as if it were your last days. My 12 year old grand daughter has Cystic Fibrosis and at some time in her life may need a lung transplant I pray if this should ever happen there would be someone their who cared enough to donate that she might live, but I also understand that no matter how much it would hurt and truely devastate our lives she lived the amount of time she was given and has gone on to be with our precious savior and we will be together again in paradise someday. This is a hard call to make I think someone would have to be on the receiving end of an organ to really understand this issue, or have a family member or close friend in this situation. In any case I believe you are gone when your heart stops not when you are brain dead, if you can't use the organs so be it, I do know if I were a doner I would not want anything removed until I was dead as in no heart beat no breathing, gone, kaput, it's over.....

When is someone officially dead?

Strict Constitutionalist — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 17:59:13 GMT

To Keep Religion out of Government Baltimore MD,

You are mistaken. The constitution of the United States DOES NOT prohibit mixing of religion and government. If you believe this to be true, you should actually READ the constitution. Many liberals in this country would have us believe that the separation of "church" and "state" is written into the constitution, but it is not. The constitution merely prohibits favoring one religion over another. I see this myth in print over and over again, but that does not make it true.

When is someone officially dead?

Dictionary Dude — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 18:04:05 GMT

SDA said:

"Brain death is the complete cessation of all brain activity (electrical, blood flow, etc). When this occurs, it is unconscionable to preserve the function of organs that could save the lives of others."

You'd better look up the word "unconscionable", because you clearly don't know what it means.

When is someone officially dead?

JOHN BRISTOL, TN — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 18:05:00 GMT

I HAVE LIVED MANY YEARS....SO IT WOULD MAKE ME VERY HAPPY TO KNOW THAT MY LAST ACT OF DONATING ANY ORGANS COULD HELP SOMEONE ELSE ENJOY A LONGER LIFE.BETTER TO HELP SOMEONE ELSE RATHER TO LET THE MEAT ROT IN THE GROUND....

When is someone officially dead?

Fazool, San Francisco, CA — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 18:16:26 GMT

I am amazed at the display of total ignorance displayed in some of these posts. "Playing god?" Religion is fine if you want to go there, but it is a good thing that laws are not based on myths and superstitions but on hard science. Brain transplant anyone?

When is someone officially dead?

Girl with a donated tendon (Thanks whoever!) Chicago, IL — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 19:07:28 GMT

Noneya, as hard as that letter was to get in the mail, I hope that you rejoiced in knowing how many people your husband helped. Organ donation decisions occur at a very difficult time for family and friends, but as your loved one passes on they can live on in others. It's that final act of helping a fellow human being. Whether you believe in an afterlife (heaven, etc) or not, your loved one is leaving their Earthly body behind, why donate to allow others to live? I cannot imagine any God would frown upon such an act.

When is someone officially dead?

Lauren, Illinois — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 19:15:01 GMT

I don't live by 'what if's?' so the unusual cases of the young man who was not brain dead and the man waking up from 13 years of a vegetative state is too unlikely for me to deny giving my organs to whomever could benefit from them. I'd rather SOMEBODY get my organs than nobody. And those who wake up from a vegetative state have been through a lot of suffering in the meantime. If not them, then their families. And when they wake up, the suffering for the patient often begins.

Another term for brain dead is 'death by neurological means'. The brain is ultimately what will keep the heart and rest of the body going.

When is someone officially dead?

Ernie T — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 19:27:34 GMT

You're legally dead when the hours a day you are active are exceeded by the hours a day you spend in front of a television, computer or video game console. Your heart may still beat but it's sort of like suspended animation. Should be good for the transplant biz. I bet some yuppie already has a business plan for it.

When is someone officially dead?

GSTAM EILRIEM BOHEMOTH, NY NY — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 19:28:31 GMT

I am against organ transplants completely!!! It is a savage ritural and a high end of nothing short of canabalism!!!

When is someone officially dead?

C Summers Denver, Colorado — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 20:11:11 GMT

When my Cousin Lorna had been shot in the head, and was on life support-as her Dad had received a Heart, he agreed to give his Teenage Daughter who had NOT signed an Organ Donor Permission form-she was over 13!- when the Doctors talked him into it...they came in as my Brother-in-law sat with her. He was watching her breathe, wriggle her nose like she had an itch from time to time...and kept an eye on her Heart and Breathing monitors to pass time-and Hope for Miracles (They DO Happen!!). In walks her Dad and the Doctors, and they tell Johnny what they are going to do. He can't beleive it! The Doctor reaches over to the Life Support machines...Shuts them Off...and watches the Clock !!1 One minute! There! Turn her back on and roll her on in to Organ Harvesting Horror shop 101!

When is someone officially dead?

Pat The Realist — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 20:15:18 GMT

This article is another perfect example of the insanity of religious belief not just in Israel, but worldwide and with the western worlds misguided policys of preserving freedom of religious expression at the cost of world peace, unity, education and progress.
Around todays world, brain washed and primitive minded fanatics from Jewish, Moslem, Christian, Buddist and countless smaller religions known as "cults" are increasingly intimidating the intelligent non religious people of the world, through violence in increasing instances, and even trying to reverse the established findings of scientific research (e.g. Darwinism) when it unintentionally, but ultimatly ridicules all religious/ supersticious theory.

p.s. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!!

When is someone officially dead?

C Summers Denver, Colorado — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 20:17:50 GMT

On the Matter of Brain Death...if one can assure us that 1005 of the Brain is DEAD-which would mean there was absolutely NO Electrical or even Involuntary activity centers working. The person would not even have a Heart Beat if this were true. Consider Einstein, I beleive it was, who had nothing more than a Brain STEM!...or was that Edison? Same Class of Genius!
We utilize from 8%-12% of our Brains-there have been too many Miracles to take the Grace of Healing Miracles away from G-D and too much Playing Gods as Men pretending science. When it is time to die-it is. Doctors and all are Great-But not the Frankenstonians out there now!
What would happen if they cloned Jesus of Nazareth or King David? or Samson or Saul or Devorah!?!...or HITLER?

When is someone officially dead?

torn apart with thoughts, vegas — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 20:26:09 GMT

i believe donatign organs should be done.. and i relaly wanted to be on the donnate list... but even with my young age.. my doctors have said the stress on my own organs has aged them past my years..that wand with my medical problems i fear my organs wouldnt be any good to help, 1 liver.. 2 kidneys...these two especially .. would never be able to harvest.. and those 2 would help the most...

When is someone officially dead?

M Koch, Kansas City, Missouri — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 20:27:40 GMT

As a critical care nurse I can tell you that people lump brain dead and comatose together all the time. Someone is only brain dead when there is no blood flow to the brain (which is determined by a flow study done in Xray) Brain cells do not regenerate, once they die, it is done. Many people who are "comatose can have varying degrees of brain injury, some permanent, some temporary. A brain dead person takes no breaths off a ventilator because the respiratory center in the brain no longer functions.

When is someone officially dead?

Adelheid Ogle, Spokane Wa. — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 21:01:43 GMT

not everyone can donate blood or organs. If you have diseases, such as RH you can not donate

When is someone officially dead?

Kate, MI — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 21:10:53 GMT

There are a lot of misconceptions about organ donation out there. Let me clear a few of them up:

-No major US religion is against organ donation. Some have stipulations, but none are against it.

-Brain dead is dead. There is not one documented case of someone who was actually brain dead coming back to life. That person in Oregon or Oklahoma or wherever that was, was not brain dead.

-"Coma" and "vegetative state" are not brain dead. That's a different diagnosis. Organs cannot be recovered from people in comas, or in vegetative states until they have expired. (non-heart beating)

-Organ donors can be brain dead, or cardiac dead. If a patient has no hope of recovery and the family has decided to withdraw care (to let the patient go), organs can be recovered once the patient expires. The problem with this type of donation is that the heart has arrested, so is not viable for transplant. Usually the lungs aren't either. So in order to recover the heart, and usually the lungs, the donor needs to be brain dead.

-There are almost 100,000 people in the US waiting for organs right now.

-One organ donor has the potential to save 9 lives. That's an incredible legacy.

When is someone officially dead?

combatmedic — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 21:55:31 GMT

If you are fortunate, you are born with one set of normally functioning parts. It is your responsibility to use, abuse and wear them out as you see appropriate. Unless you can be fitted with a mechanical replacement or prosthesis or you opt for a part from another type of animal (pig/ape) then you are done. This transplant thing is immoral, leud and hazardous. Diseases may be spread and the DNA will never match. The human body is not an old Jeep.

When is someone officially dead?

Liz Stecklein, Prairie Village, KS — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 22:15:21 GMT

I have twin daughters with Cystic Fibrosis at some point they will most likely need a lung transplant obviously if this were something that I could give them while alive I would. I do Thank all of those everyday that choose to give up their organs and for those families that must go through that process. I encourage all of you to think very hard about choosing to donate just think it could be your loved one that needed an organ, would you do it then?

When is someone officially dead?

JC, Providence, RI — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 22:29:11 GMT

Question of this:

How many proclaimed brain dead people has died from their organs removed when they would have waken up just like Zach? Zach is a isolated incident or Zach is "the only" person who lived thru it so far?

When is someone officially dead?

Karen W Richmond TX — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 22:33:03 GMT

I ditto this:
"Personally, I'm listed as an organ donor, and I think the best move the country could make would be to change the laws so that only people listed as organ donors could be organ recipients----"

When is someone officially dead?

Annoyed, Ohio — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 22:45:42 GMT

It's a good thing you know your politics, Susan... Oh, wait, you don't. President Bush supports stem cell research to create organs and such as long as the embryos are indeed "dead," and they're not used for human cloning expirements. Secondly, President Bush doesn't make the laws all by himself. Those delgates at the Capitol building also approve and make laws. So, President Bush could be 100% for stem cell research and abortions and whatnot, but if you don't have the proper numbers agreeing with him in Congress, then his opinion is pretty much meaningless. It goes the opposite way as well... checks and balances... Maybe you should pick up a third grade history book and see how this stuff works.

When is someone officially dead?

Todd, Baltimore, MD — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 23:06:28 GMT

This would be a non-issue if stem cell research was progressing faster. Perhaps instead of arguing this point we should be pushing for faster solutions that involve creating new organs from the person that needs them.

When is someone officially dead?

carrie grooms johnson city tn — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 23:08:15 GMT

ok seriously i dont know what god it is that you worship but my God is not going to punish us for having the will to help others even if it is in life... God wants us to "do unto others as we would have others do to us" Life is the most unselfish form of love that exists god will bless those of us that do donate and save lives

When is someone officially dead?

bob j — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 23:18:44 GMT

heard on police scanner in oregon,,"arrived at accident scene,,got 2 doa's ,looks like one of them still moving a little."

another ,,"arrived at scene of the fatal,,subject isnt quite dead yet"

also ,,(bad accident on main hwy),,,policeman says "you would never believe this ,,that van is split open like a tin can ,and there are dead bodies all over the pavement,, some of them are up on hands and knees trying to crawl"

When is someone officially dead?

EH Gerritsen, Denver, Colorado — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 23:28:45 GMT

Me and my 20-year old daughter, we are NOT donors. We carry a card saying so, and we are thinking about having a tattoo just below the belly-button saying: NO DONOR. Because we do not believe in the ethics of people in general, and no more do we believe in the ethics of doctors, or the infallibility of doctors as they would like us to.

When is someone officially dead?

SFS, Michigan — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 23:36:39 GMT

My son died 22 years ago at the age of 18. In 1986 there was not as much information available about the organ donor process, but my son asked us to witness his signature on the back of his drivers license, which we did.

We certainly never thought we would be faced with the reality of that choice. It wasn't our choice, it was his. So whatever you do, don't just mark your drivers license, or put it in a living will. TELL your family. The hospital never looked at his license.

I'm guessing that those who oppose taking organs from a brain dead person have never stood beside the bed, or held the hand of their loved one once that has happened. My son was already gone before the official pronouncement. I know a lot of faith must be placed in the abilities of the doctors who are taking care, but if I didn't have that faith in them, I wouldn't have let them take care of him when we thought he would pull through from the accident.

To the lady who had the bad experience with the organ donor agency. It's too bad you don't live in Michigan. We received only the best support from our agency. 22 years ago there could be no exchange between the donor and recipient families. But the Michigan agency sent us letters every few months advising how the person who received the heart was doing as well as those who received his kidneys.

Would I do it again? Yes.

Was it easy? No, I spent a lot of time after his death researching the meaning of brain death and how the organ transplantation process works. That information is much more readily available now. I also had to accept that some family members (not immediate) didn't agree with our decision. But since his death I have found peace because we did what he had requested, even though I didn't fulfill all his wishes because I stopped at the heart and kidneys. His other organs could have helped others, they certainly did no good where they ended up.

Nothing takes away the pain of losing a child, but if he helped one other family from burying their child, his death brought some goodness into the world.

When is someone officially dead?

John,S yracuse, NY — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 00:34:57 GMT

How is it possible for many Orthodox families to want a relative’s body to be buried as intact as possible, with no defects, when their religion believed in the mutilation and surgical altering of the penis...that is, circumcision. Can anyone explain this paradox??

When is someone officially dead?

Tonya S, Kansas City MO — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 00:36:52 GMT

The man in Oklahoma was never truly "brain dead". Inexperienced physicians were too rash in making that declaration. I have never seen a donor who was not truly brain dead. In my hometown, as in the majority of places, several tests and consults from neurosurgeons result in the diagnosis of brain death. As an anesthetist, I have been part of the organ removal and transplant process. I have no qualms about the donor sticker on my driver's license and hope that many more people will feel the need to give of themselves when they are fully dead (even though the heart is still beating, because as we in the medical profession know, once you are truly brain dead, the body is very unstable and it's just a matter of time before the heart does stop beating).

When is someone officially dead?

Cynthia Lang, Victoria, BC, Canada — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 01:00:45 GMT

Some of these questions can be answered scientifically or religiously. For myself, if I am declared brain-dead, and even if resuscitated would be able to "live" only with the aid of machines, then you are welcome to any/all of my organs. I am alive if my brain is alive, whether or not my body lives.

When is someone officially dead?

john doe, seattle washington — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 01:28:03 GMT

As a believer in individual choice, the person is truly dead when s/he says s/he is dead.

When is someone officially dead?

Sarah, Dubuque, Iowa — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 02:11:30 GMT

As a 17 year old girl, I watched as the first boy who ever kissed me lay in a hospital bed for an entire week, completely braindead from a car accident. Jayson would never been the same, and there was no coming back. I knew at that moment that I was going to be an organ donor. Along with his parents, I was able to meet the three people who's lives HE saved. He lives on through them. Those who have never been affected by such a tragedy, should not judge the actions of another. I know that God was at work that day. He took one life, but saved three.
Make informed decisions. Repect the choices of others.
By the way, I think that it is an excellent idea that you can only receive organs if you are an organ donor!

When is someone officially dead?

Daphne — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 02:21:25 GMT

To: Keep Religion out of Government Baltimore MD: If you read the constitution you will understand that it states... keep the government out of the church. This is not the exact words but it won't hurt you to look it up. That ammendment was to protect the church from state control. Not the other way around.

When is someone officially dead?

Amanda, Ohio — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 02:42:27 GMT

Quote:"If they can shock a heaart back, then they can use a heart that has stopped. My daughter was a doner,but I didn't let them because they were going to take organs before she was deceased."

I am sorry to hear about your daughter, but I must clarify that they CANNOT use an organ after the heart has stopped--immediately after the heart stops, the organs stop being perfused by (oxygen-rich) blood. The organs cells immediately begin to die. With organ donation, the organs are immediately placed on ice, which significantly slows the "dying" process, allowing several hours (depending on the organ) before it has to be transplanted and again perfused with oxygen-rich blood. If the docs had to wait for a heart to stop before pronouncing them dead enough to do a transplant, there would not be near enough time to get the patient to surgery and harvest the organs before the organs would all be ruined due to lack of oxygen. The exception is skin, corneas, and bone--which do not function as true "organs" after being given to someone else. In other words, those are the only things of any value after the heart has stopped.

In every harvest, the heart is the LAST organ taken--so vital is it to keep the other organs "alive" until they are able to be placed on ice.

I am an OR nurse and have seen both harvests and transplants. What a wonderful thing to have your organs giving new life to other humans, after you have no use for them. (and waking up from a true "brain dead" state is essentially impossible). I kind of like the idea that if the unthinkable happens, my heart may still go on beating in another--kinda makes one feel a little immortal. :)

When is someone officially dead?

JOH. MACKENZIE GEELONG VICTORIA AUSTRALIA — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 02:45:32 GMT

'KEEP RELIGION OUT OF GOVT.''April 4.Was this a misprint? I understand both sides of this emotive issue because i have researched for myself what it entails when an organ is ready for arecipient .Honestly,M.D. from Baltimore do you really believe that religion and gvt. in America do not go hand in hand? Who is the puppet who stands on the steps of the WHITE HOUSE braying "GOD SAVE AMERICA' in issues of war, medical research,abortions and any and all issues affecting the people in the U.S.A .Your founding fathers would be appalled at the misuse of the constitution they so carefully drew up. Politics and religion go hand in glove in the U.S.A. and it is stupid to think otherwise.We all know it is possible for the heart to keep beating after the brain is dead.Just look at the President.

When is someone officially dead?

Michelle, Pawt, RI — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 03:12:35 GMT

When are people officially dead? Well if people need organs they are dead when the heart stops beating but if they don't they are dead when the brain stops. Fact: they aren't just doing this in Israel. They are doing in the places in the United States as well. I found this piece of information on a legitimate site about ethical/unethical research. It should be the people who decide if this should be done to them because most organ donors don't know the fact that once their heart stops beating they start taking out organs. I know it's a great thing to give organs to those who need it I just think the information should be out there so people can make the decision for themselves.

When is someone officially dead?

dpcgidoc, Schenectady, NY — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 03:40:08 GMT

I am a religious Jew, as well as a physician. Unfortunately, religion, politics and emotions are frequently admixed in Israel, particularly by the religious right, to the point that frequently, even non-Israeli Orthodox Jews are astonished at the outcomes and directives. That said, Israel is a country that specifically designed in a combination of religion and state- it is their system, and they need to work within it.
However, some of the comments put forth so far in this blog are unbelievable, and I would agree, appalling. Their is NO financial incentive involved in the harvesting of organs; this is why it is illegal to buy or sell organs. Organs NEED to be harvested as early as possible once there is brain death- the lack of blood flow, even for a few minutes before refrigeration, can cause severe chemical imbalances that will rapidly degrade the organ to the point where it won't function. To answer millieww, most people who need their hearts shocked from a pulseless state, do NOT recover- most die. Of those that survive, many have end-organ damage (especially brain); and that is when the organ doesn't have the added insult of being cut out, shipped in ice, and put back into someone else. The people receiving the transplant are very sick; to put them through the risk of surgery to put in a degraded organ will not only waste the last gift of a dying person, but will unneccessarily increase the risk to benefit ration of the recipient. The brain death protocols are very stringent; unfortunately, errors can occur. However, someone who is truly braindead by the protocols will NOT wake up; Angela B, "persistent vegetative state" and "coma" ARE NOT the same as brain death, nor are organs harvested from them.
As far as any conspiracy that the rich and powerful are getting preferential treatment (as suggested by the eminently poorly-informed Mr Brooks), the people that harvest the organs usually are completely independent of the direct patient care given to either the donor before death, or to the recipient at all- they have NO say in where the organ goes; nor do the health professionals that took care of the donor; nor is their any monetary gain to any of these people for getting the organs. Organs for transplant are routed by a computerized system run by UNOS (United Network for Organ Transplant), which determines the best match between the absolute medical need and urgency of the recipient, the physical factors related to the organ (what kind of organ, what blood type, size match for recipient,etc) travel time to the recipientwhich is a major factor in graft survival), and the likelihood that the graft will survive in the recipient (as frequently, particularly with livers, 2 or 3 people will die waiting for the one that got transplanted). In fact, it is best to see this as depersonallized- UNOS will send the organ where the organ has the best chance of a long survival (which, of course, generally translates to the precipient surviving as well). Although I understand that the bible has the heart as the center of the soul, and the Chinese had it in the liver, most of us in the 21st century are pretty sure that who you are is in your brain. People who have heart transplants and liver transplants don't wake up different people; but people with head trauma do. Also, remember that anyone who has open-heart surgery has their heart shut off (they're put on artificial heart-lung bypass)- are they dead then? Can we take THEIR organs?. 3500 years ago, when Moses got the bible, they didn't have EEG's- they could only look for lack of a pulse or breathing, which was the only way to say if someone was dead (and with CPR, we know that isn't so); in the 21st century, brain death is the only true death.
"From dust you came, and to dust you shallgo"- you can't take it with you, and it is a sin in the eyes of any rational being (God included) to waste the gift of life a transplant can be. Perhaps I am being somewhat rigid in my castigation of some of the more ignorant comments above; however, although one is entitled to his/her opinion, you need SOME basic knowledge of the subject to actually HAVE an opinion.

When is someone officially dead?

dpcgidoc, Schenectady, NY — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 03:41:33 GMT

PS- Bravo, Anne from NJ

When is someone officially dead?

g-high@shaw.ca — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 03:44:40 GMT

Maybe if people knew the anatomy of the brain and how the heart works, they might have a different opinion of waiting until the heart stops. the location of the heart function is located very near to the brain stem.The main part of the brain does not affect the heart function.If the brain is proven to be dead, it is dead. The part that makes the heart beat does not know this and keeps functioning because of electriical activity, but the main part of the brain is not being supplied with oxygen nor is it getting rid of the non-oxygenated blood flow, thus it dies,it is not functioning.The electrical activity can go on for sometime, but it does not affect the brain. The brain dies and nothing will bring it back.
George High, New Westminster British Columbia Canada

When is someone officially dead?

Ellis Warner, Troy, Ohio — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 03:48:44 GMT

...I can't belive some of you people. You claim you value life, yet you are willing to throw away a stranger's life beacuse you are afraid of a one in a million chance at. Once you are gone, you don't need your body anymore, no matter what view of the afterlife you might have. Yet, you are too selfish to give the chance at life to someone else...

When is someone officially dead?

g-high@shaw.ca — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 03:52:11 GMT

I do not know if you got my email address whhen I sent my opionion.
g-high@shaw.ca

George High Canada

When is someone officially dead?

sharon bauman, Terrell, Texas — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 04:08:03 GMT

After reading all the comments above, I find myself wondering at some of the thoughts of the person who wrote it, and why they feel that way. Donating your Organs is a very special way of saying "Thank you Lord" for the life you have given me, and maybe they can help someone else now. I know a little boy that was told he'd never live to his 6th birthday because he needed heart and lungs and thats almost impossible to find. And like a miricle,, just before his 6th birthday, he received a heart-lung transplant and will be graduating from highschool this year. So, what this all boils down to is the donor. This was his wish.

When is someone officially dead?

Teri Liebman Groton, CT — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 04:17:41 GMT

Reading all this has been a bit unsettling, but I'm glad I did. I never knew your heart could still be beating once you were declared dead.. I always thought dead meant, well, dead? I agree that brain dead is brain dead though, and will keep my donor status in the hopes that someday I could help another. Who cares what happens to my body when I'm done with it. I'm going to be cremated anyways. :P

When is someone officially dead?

Kori Holub, Lubbock, Texas — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 04:36:18 GMT

Wow, what a terrible situation. I am 16 years old and planned on being an organ donor, until i heard of this. I believe that "Brain Dead" is NOT DEAD ENOUGH. Anything else is murder. Doesn't anyone remember Terry Schivo? Wasn't she simply "Brain Dead" but it took a supreme court ruling to decide whether or not to take her off of life support. You are dead when your heart stops beating, and you no loger have a pulse. That is that. You can't go around changing the rules of death or the world will go crazy! For gods sake people, the the line is very clear. ALIVE or DEAD. Well, I know that i'm not becoming a an organ donor until Congress and the rest of the world figures this out, if ever

When is someone officially dead?

Adriana, Washington DC — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 04:56:46 GMT

While in the future they will likely be able clone all the organs needed...for right now some very sick people and doctors need our help and generosity.

To Angela from Seattle:

As an economist myself, might I suggest that you get medical advice from a doctor not your econ professor, however learned and wise he or she might be. To donate your organs you must be brain dead, which has a very, very specific meaning.

2. Brain dead and a persistent vegetative state (PSV) are NOT the same thing.

Brain Dead:
"In simple terms, brain death is the irreversible end of all brain activity (including involuntary activity necessary to sustain life) due to total necrosis of the cerebral neurons following loss of blood flow and oxygenation. It should not be confused with a persistent vegetative state."

PSV:
"As opposed to brain death, PVS is not recognized as death in any legal system. This legal grey area has led to several court cases involving people in a PVS, those who believe that they should be allowed to die, and those who are equally determined that, if recovery is possible, care should continue. This ethical issue raises questions about autonomy, quality of life, appropriate use of resources, the wishes of family members, professional responsibilities, and many more."

I honestly hope you yourself are never ever in a position to need an organ transplant. Really I do. But God forbid that need should ever arise, I hope you’re able to benefit from generosity, compassion and foresight of some stranger who bothered to check off the "yes" box when getting his/her driver's license.

When is someone officially dead?

Eric, Williamsport, Pa. — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 05:09:47 GMT

To all concerned: Braind death is one thing, certifiable death, appears to be quite another.
One commentator I read here said there "is no coming back" from brain death. Not true....I know a young man in Central Pa. who was certifiably brain dead, not for minutes, or hours, or weeks.....try being brain dead for MONTHS. His parents and churchmates would not give up on him and they prayed.
Weeks and weeks passed, Doctors continued to tell his parents he was brain dead and urged them to pull the plug on his life so organs could be harvested and others saved.
Much to their surprise, his brain began functioning, first on lower levels, then higher levels of brain activity. Doctors continued to insist that he only had a 1/10 of 1 percent chance of survival and said he would be so brain damaged that he would need to be institutionalized. They said he'd never come out of coma, but he did.
Then be began talking, later, with much therapy, he was walking again. Today, he functions normally as most peopel do, though he has some memory loss -- he doesn't remember the horrific car crash that put him in the hospital for more than one year.
My instructions for donation are clear: If my heart ain't stopped, don't mess with me!

When is someone officially dead?

Lary, GA — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 05:16:46 GMT

It's painful to read a lot of these comments. Not because of the content, but because that is some of the worse grammar I have ever seen.

When is someone officially dead?

chris, Robinson, illionois — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 05:31:07 GMT

In my opinion most of the people who made comments here are idiots. Again that’s my opinion! Also i said 'most' not 'all.' The reason i say this is because everyone is entitled to their opinion. Where am i going with this? Well if I choose to be an organ donor of which i am then that's my choice. I don't need some religious sect in my face telling me i'm going to hell because this is what i believe. I can't stand people who 'force' their values and beliefs on everyone else. With that being said i feel organ and tissue donation is a great thing. I'm ok with the current guidelines set on the procedure. Everyone has the choice to either be one or not to be one. Let the individual choose. Don't force or get all pissed off because we believe something different. An entire country shouldn't have to change something for one religion. If that one religion isn't comfortable with it then don't opt be apart of it. It's that simple. But of course people are stupid and think that their way is the right way for everyone. You guys can complain that you don’t believe in it all you want that’s fine but you know what??? You don’t have to be a part of it. My choice is to help others when I die. I’m ok with that! It’s as simple as this. When the heart stops the organs are useless. When the brain is dead the person is useless and I’m ok with that as well! Every person on this planet is human which includes doctors. They’re not perfect which means they do make mistakes. I understand this! If I die through malpractice it happens. I know the doctor didn’t mean to. Yeah it sucks but it happens and at least I know that someone will be saved cause of me in the long run. So for those of you who want to force your views on others. LEAVE US ALONE!

When is someone officially dead?

Julia, Morgan City, Louisiana — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 05:54:44 GMT

When my daughter, 3, was sick in the PICU, she was on life support for Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome. Her lungs were shot, her kidneys had kidney stones, two years of seizure medications saturated her liver and at birth three small holes in her heart kept her from thriving. But she was beautiful with her black curly hair, green eyes and fair skin. I didn't have much time. We would have to turn off life support. I didn't want her dying hooked up to the machines so they accomodated my wishes and brought in a rocking chair and disconnected the ventilator. An eeg had been done earlier but we didn't want to know if she was brain dead or not. The machines are not God, and only He could will her alive because no doctors could. If she was going to die it would be without the respirator. The EEG didn't matter, her lungs wouldn't keep her alive. As soon as they stopped the drug, Dopamine (keeps the heart beating) her heart stopped beating, she was gone. It was a concerted effort to keep her alive using technology today. She may have lived for 2 or 3 more days, but the respirator was going to kill her first. I had to decide to turn it off and let her die before a gruesome death would take her. I would never dream that any organs of hers was salvageable. And then the chaplin came in and asked if we would consider donating her corneas. At first I was adamantly NO. I was still holding her! But after I returned to the waiting room with my family they encouraged me to rethink my decision. My mom said, "You can do this, just think, Julianna will be able to give the gift of sight to someone." I relented. That poor baby gave the only healthy thing she had to give. On Mother's Day that spring I checked my mail on Sunday morning. In it was a letter and a certificate of honor and appreciation for Julianna's gift. Because of her TWO people who needed a cornea could see. I don't know who they are.

That was a difficult decision to make. And we didn't make it for Julianna, we made it for someone who might be able to use a 3 year olds eyes. Had she been an otherwise healthy child I am not sure if I could have donated her organs because the trauma of losing her may have prevented me from making that selfless decision. We didn't have a living will in place for her, so the decision would have to be made at the time of her death.

All three of my surviving children, upon getting their driver's license, checked off the little box that said "Organ Donor". it was their decision, not mine. I explained to them what it would mean in the event that they were on life support with no chance of surviving. They just checked it off, with no fear, only pride that somehow their little sister and us, did something noble for someone else. It wasn't to play God, it was to love another and even lay down our life so that someone else might live.

Julianna was already gone before the ventilator and the medicines were stopped, it just wasn't official until they placed the stethescope upon her chest at 4:00.

Hope I didn't upset anyone, I just thought I would share from a donor families point of view.

When is someone officially dead?

Looey Munn, Roundup, MT — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 06:07:53 GMT

It is sad on the paucity of donors. I have listed myself as a donor, unlimited, and I do believe the doctors today know the difference between life and death.

But you did miss an important advance, at least in Kidney transplants.

New rejection supression drugs developed world wide have now made transplants possible without waitng on a perfect gene match. Been doing that in Fargo, ND...not a huge major center, for some time now. Sweden also, I understand.

What I find troubling is that this seems not to be widely known, and many countries are refusing to help other countries. Australia seems to be one that is refusing to help "outsiders" even tho exact match donors are no longer required!

And lapriscopic surgury reduces the recovery time tremendously also. Seems to me especially for kidneys, where a live donor of one can save almost anybody's life, and the paired donor method also opens the door to many additional transplants.

We ought here in the USA to be in the forefront, and the big hostpials know about what the smaller ones are finding out, so more donors are available.

It was eye-opening to me to check around the world, and see how many countries hoard their transplants, and how many seem not to know the surgury options and the lack of need with the modern drugs of an exact match on kidneys, anyhow.

Seems to me the international Red Cross ought to be on top of this, getting countries and patients together with donors, to make fullest use of what we have.

I am not sure why countries are not keeping up on progress in the field, and helping everybody no matter what country, when the technology has advanced so far. And the costs have fallen, so if we cut out a war or two each decade, everybody who has a need could be helped, it would appear, at least as far as kidneys go anyhow.

I would have thought too the UN WHO would have been on top of this, but I guess they are just as efficient and effective as the rest of the UN at really helping in time. But we can do it better and with less overhead, I think. Mybe the USA can step in and help make a badly needed change, share the technology, and sha
re meeting the needs.

Anyone thought of making getting killed while driving drunk an automatic total organ donation? Or are drunk other organs as useless as the drunk brain?

When is someone officially dead?

Knet Dude, Galesburg, Illinois — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 06:09:35 GMT

People's lack of education amazes me sometimes. Case in Point: One person said "There are Christians, such as myself, who also believe that a person is dead only when his heart stops beating, because this indicates that the soul has departed the body. In addition to the Bible teaching us this."

He needs to do more Bible reading and research. The soul is not a seperate "entity" that comes and goes or leaves the body. There is not a single place in the Bible where it teaches that. It's like blowing out a match. Where does the flame (soul) go? Nowhere. It no longer exists. Ezekiel 18:4 says: "The soul that is sinning, it itself will die." We all sin and we all could die at some point. God didn't make us to die and then go to Heaven. He made us to live on earth and we have to wait for that resurrection.

This one was interesting too: "Above all else, guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life." <Proverbs 4:23 (New International Version) It isn't talking about the literal heart here. You have to look back at the meaning of the original language and words. The heart it is referring to is the figurative heart. The way we think and feel. The heart is a muscle. It would be like saying someone is dead because their leg stopped working.

A person's identity is in their brain. If the brain has truly stopped working, i.e. gunshot wound, massive stroke, head injury, the person is dead!

Should we donate our organs? Thats a personal decision each individual should make based on true Bible priciples. Who's business is it to advise other people what they should do? NOBODYS! You follow Bible principles and make your own decisions. What are the Bible Principles? Thats something that only comes from reading and deep study if the Bible, not from going to church and listening to a sermon once a week. It takes a lot of time and is our responsibility, not the minister's to tell us what to do. They can guide us but it is our responsibility to study and learn The Truth.

When is someone officially dead?

Knet, Illinois — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 06:29:46 GMT

Gosh Susan. My father taught me to respect all people. You obviously are very personally acquainted with the President to make such a statement. If not then how can you make a statement like that from someone you don't personally know? I have never heard of an idiot getting an MBA from Harvard! Where is your MBA from? I looked it up and his GPA was higher (As is his IQ) than the last person he ran against for president that went to Yale and graduated with only a Bachelors degree. So if you call the President an idiot, that would make the Senator from MA something worse. What could be worse than an idiot? Thats not respectful to that Senator either.

You go on about letting "Regilous Zelots run our lives". I don't know what a Regilous Zelot is but I have heard that there are some RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS out there. Sounds like you are a Religious Zealot for a political cause. If thats where you are putting your time and effort, thats your religion. But judging from the fact you can neither spell or write, it looks like you probably need to spend time educationg yourself to a level higher than the person you are condemning and then you will have earned the write to be critical of them, but not disrespectful!

When is someone officially dead?

Jaime in Oregon — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 06:55:45 GMT

I will continue to be an organ donor. The chances of my organs saving a life are much greater than the odds of me being prematurely declared dead.

When is someone officially dead?

Akiva, Jerusalem, Israel — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 07:21:13 GMT

For anyone who's been on the other end of this, there is the heavy conversations of whether you should "let your loved one die" due to "lack of quality of life". The doctors push and push, discontinue treatment, sign a DNR (do not resuscitate), which actually means cut off all reasonable treatment. Cut off food and water.

With a medical system (run by insurance companies) fighting to provide minimal care to those THEY determine aren't viable enough, it's no wonder so many people are so hesitant to trust them to declare brain death and take organs.

Lets be clear, brain death is an ARBITRARY point of limited body function decided by a bunch of doctors in a conference room. Then, the doctors on the spot test to see if IN THEIR INTERPRETATION the current test results match the ARBITRARY points set by a bunch of guys in a conference room.

The rabbis speak back on our blog - http://mpaths.com

When is someone officially dead?

jon — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 07:23:10 GMT

why dont we separate the united states in half, the repubs on one side,the demons on the other...then have a great battle,..winner takes all...that would be great

When is someone officially dead?

Rasheed Afaar, Wichita, Kansas — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 08:38:57 GMT

All I know is that, if my organs were used to save the life of some child molester, murderer or rapist I just couldn't live with myself.

When is someone officially dead?

Jessica S, Naples, FL — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 09:31:39 GMT

There is a simple solution to the scarcity of organs for transplant. Allow donors to sell their organs!

Why is it that everyone EXCEPT the organ donor is allowed to profit from transplant procedures? The truth is kept from Americans so a few make huge profits while the rest live at or near poverty levels.

Isn't there enough money left over after a transplant is fully paid for to allow the most important person, the donor, some profit?

WHO collects the million-dollar-plus fees for these transplants? Why are health care corporations allowed to collect nearly all the money for work done by doctors using parts provided by ordinary citizens?

Naturally this isn't an issue in OTHER countries, all of which deal with their health care in a manner beneficial to their own citizens instead of the all-powerful and ever greedy corporations that keep health care costs impossibly high in America.

When is someone officially dead?

anamaryrir fletcher queens,ny — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 10:02:56 GMT

greater love has no man than he give his life for his friend- we are all gods people he made us and if our organs,blood, bones, skin, hair can save and/or improve the life of our fellow human -then play it foreward!

When is someone officially dead?

Gary Gueths, Lewistown, MT — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 11:31:50 GMT

While laying in a hospital bed, recovering from an injury related stroke in 1994, doctors daily to get me to sign a donor card stating that "no one with the amount of brain damage I survived lives more than 6 months and would I would never regain the use of my left side, sight or mind ". Then they tried to annoy me to death. After a couple weeks I took a walker and escaped the organ vultures, pausing only to flip off and yell vulgarities at the doctors while leaving the hospital. 14 years later I can see and walk without assistance, but my IQ is down to 131. Never trust a doctor's opinion or give your life away. there are no absolutes when it comes to the brain.

When is someone officially dead?

RNGFDR1 NA SOL3 — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 12:44:37 GMT

To lose a life, to save a life whom is to make the choice? Organ donations save and prolong life, this is a fact. No one on this planet but the donor has that rite of choice. Until an alternate method is attained e.g. cloning, regeneration, etc. This is the only means at times to save a human being, so give it a rest people. Or better still go and discover that alternate method, instaed of procrastinating.

When is someone officially dead?

Jim D Two Rivers, Wi — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 13:05:00 GMT

It's not really that hard to figure out. When the brain stops functioning and the heart stops beating, it's usually a good indication that the person has died.

When is someone officially dead?

Sick in texas. — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 13:35:14 GMT

As of Jan 1 of this year, I got a raise that moved me from $97k to $101k.. awe shucks.. now I am evil, and the wicked must be punished. No transplant for me!

Of course, since I am evil, that also means that you wouldn't accept an organ FROM me if it was to extend your life, right?

When is someone officially dead?

Jude, NY — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 14:42:18 GMT

The body is only a shell for the sipirit. When we die, all that is left is just that - an empty shell. Working in the medical profession, I have seen next of kin refusing organ harvesting of potential donors due to denial of the dying process.
If you can accept the fact that dying is a natural process of living, then organ donation should come as natural as will writing. Before you die, you decide where your property goes. In that sense, you should think as your body as an asset - where and what should be done to it.
Most people who have never seen a family member die waiting for a heart, a lung, a kidney - will find it hard to understand the suffering of waiting under the 'guillotine' of organ breakdown.
Most of all, living in a country where you have a high rate of young people with healthy orgns dying from all kind of trauma, organ surplus should not be a problem. Try living in a country with more old people then young, or where there is no transplant surgeon - then you know what it means by prolong suffering and death as you slowly watch sand pouring out of your hourglass of life.

When is someone officially dead?

JIM HANSON — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 14:48:17 GMT

WHY ASK A REALLY DUMB QUESTION LIKE THIS?? IT IS AS CLEAR AS THE NOSE ON YOUR FACE..."IF IT IS 'BREATHING'
ON ITS ON ITS ALIVE...OTHER WISE ITS "DEAD"". THIS IS NOT ONE OF THOSE "GREY" AREA THINGS.... AND BEFORE YOU "RIGHT TO LIFE" FREAKS START YOUR CRAP, ABORTION IS NOT RIGHT IN MY OPINION, BUT IT IS NOT FOR "MAN" TO JUDGE... ONLY "GOD" CAN JUDGE YOU FOR THIS... THAT IS WHY ONLY "MANKIND" WAS GIVEN A ABILITY TO KNOW "RIGHT FROM WRONG", WE WILL ALL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE IN THE END..

When is someone officially dead?

silverfox, WI — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 15:24:23 GMT

It always amuses me how some people can become so self righteous when a subject like this comes up. Only THEY know the answer. Well...it's a personal thing...no one is going to sway any one else from what they believe when it comes to their own body and life. I was in pre-med in college and, although I switched my vocation and used my science courses for other avenues instead of an MD degree, I still am interested in the field of medicine and still study it as an avocation. None of this is really relevant except that I have made my decision based on my own research. I am dead when my brain appears to be dead AND when my heart stops beating.

When is someone officially dead?

Ricardo MacTavish — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 15:46:27 GMT

This is easy.

"When is someone officially dead?----

When they become a Democrat.

When is someone officially dead?

Lee Harrison, Klamath Falls, Oregon — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 16:22:39 GMT

If anyone agrees to donate their organs, it should be on their death bed, after being fully informed with all of the possibilities involved.

When is someone officially dead?

Kristi; Alexandria, LA — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 17:24:06 GMT

Robert Bowley, your comment was absolutely beautiful. My grandfather waited for several years for a new heart. He finally got it, but died two days later due to complications of the procedure. I'll always be thankful to the family who donated their son's heart to him because he felt so much better, so much stronger, for those last two days of his life. At least he did't suffer there in the end like he'd suffered the last few years.

I understand that people's religious beliefs are very important to them, so it is pretty cruel to point the finger at them or call them uneducated because they hold their beliefs so close to their hearts. We don't really know what religion is the "right" one, so there's little sense pointing at someone else and saying they're wrong. I wouldn't want a new organ at the expense of forcing someone to do something they don't believe in. And, I would hope that nobody forces me to do something I don't believe in for their own benefit either. Now, I do think organ transplantation is a wonderful thing, I just don't think we should be taking the organs from those who don't believe in it.

I also think it would be worth noting that, even if it states on your driver's license that you want to be a donor, in most places, that doesn't really count. Your family has to approve it. So, for those of you who do wish to donate, please make sure your family knows what your wishes are.

When is someone officially dead?

Kristi — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 17:28:37 GMT

Anne, that's an interesting suggestion... that only those who have decided to donate could recieve organs. It would be a good idea, but of course, there are a few reasons it might not work quite as well. There are some people out there who "can't" donate their organs for health reasons. Also, there are children out there who need organs, they wouldn't have been old enough to make the decision to donate. However, I do think you make an awesome point. I'd be willing to bet that many more people would donate in that situation!

When is someone officially dead?

Bob Newman Arizona — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 17:33:01 GMT

I believe you are officially dead when you don't complain about the price of gas for more than four hours.......

When is someone officially dead?

Bob Newman Sierra Vista, Arizona — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 17:34:53 GMT

I believe you are officially dead when you don't complain about the price of gas for more than four hours.......

When is someone officially dead?

Keith Warren, Tallassee, AL — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 17:40:10 GMT

I just had a very close freind die. On a Friday night we played pool together, Monday morning he had a massive stroke, an artery in his head ruptured scrambling his brains. Some of you would have him lie in a bed for the next 20 years on life support,(what kind of LIFE is that). He had chosen to be a doner. After the doctors started removing organs, they found he had the early stages of leukemia. I believe GOD spared him the very painful life he was about to begin. As for the Christians out there that believe in Yahwey, (WHOM IS THE ONE TRUE GOD) He has the ability to create new bodies on the day of the return of Christ, anything else is to say your god isn't capable of this, or the creation of the universe. If your god can't create body parts, the he didn't create Adam and Eve. He is the one that created adam and steve, or madam and eve, or he could be the one that said blow yourself up and you can have a couple of virgins. As far as not putting religion in the government, why don't you look at the Ten Commandments and then look at our laws, or better yet, do you think we would be the leading country in the world for people locked away in prisons if we had kept Yahwey in our government????? Right or wrong, when you remove a certian moral code from life, it leaves a void to be filled by something else. You can argue this point to the end of time,(which is VERY close), and it won't change the fact that this will happen.

When is someone officially dead?

Ina Texas — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 18:11:56 GMT

Religious or not religious, it is apparent, the brain is the center of our functioning and/or life..if the brain dies, I believe so does the person.the fact is that human intelligence continues to evolve and has achieved outstanding feats, space knowledge and yes, medical knowledge. Organ transplants is the result of that knowledge. What a wonderful feeling to be able to save a life. It amazes me that some want to bury a "complete" body rather then to share it to save a life..Even with the best embalming, the body will begin to rot in a matter of hours after death. donating the organs, prevents those organs from rotting and in a way allow your loved one to continue "living" thru the unselfish act of donating.

When is someone officially dead?

J, Columbus, IN — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 19:04:22 GMT

I, too, can appreciate the thoughts, opinions, and beliefs of most on this forum. I, for one, believe that when God sees fit to call you home, nothing that man does here will make a difference. True brain-death is God calling you home. Though bodily death has nothing to do with the soul, which is not connected to the body. We should all be donors, as when we die, we wont need them, and cant take them with us. And, should that horrible thought of not being truly brain-dead, God will have a special place for them, knowing that their sacrifice went to help save someone elses life, when their's was so close to gone already. And as for the comments of wealth, just how shallow can we truly get, people. The fact is, that lower income people generally know in advance that they cannot afford the cost involved in the process and opt out, giving their lives over to God, or whoever that may be to them, whereas the rich are willing to do anything and everything to try to stay here (dont know why, I'm headed to a far better place when I die). Nothing more, nothing less.

When is someone officially dead?

Barton H. — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 19:21:17 GMT

Religion is a disease which is responsible for more death and misery than any other affliction, including the Black Plague.

When is someone officially dead?

JASON PAINTNER ST LOUIS MO — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 19:27:38 GMT

I BELIEVE THAT IF YOU EXCLUDE RECIPIENTS BASED ON INCOME , YOU WILL ONLY FACILITATE THE EXACT BEHAVIOR THAT YOU ARE CONDEMMING. AFTER ALL IF YOU LEAVE A PERSON WITH NO OTHER OPTION THAN TO --BUY-- AN ORGAN FOR THEIR LITTLE GIRL OR BOY, FATHER OR SISTER, DONT YOU THINK THEY WOULD TRY TO DO IT? YOU SIR ARE_______________________BRAIN DEAD_______________

When is someone officially dead?

Michelle, Dayton, Ohio — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 20:26:17 GMT

My 21 year old brother died last year. After years of being off-track he had finally gotten things together. He was preparing to start college within the week and his employer, a small landscaping company, was paying part of his tuition. He was an amazing young man and we all loved him very much. He was driving home late one night, he wasn't drunk, he wasn't speeding and he should have made a left turn about 100 feet from where he went off the road so we are pretty sure he was awake. But somehow he went off the road and ended up slamming into a tree. I went to the hospital as soon as I heard and prayed and prayed. I told my mom not to talk about him in past tense. He had promised to take my kids fishing. He looked pretty okay. God how I wish he had been pretty okay, but he wasn't. His brain swelled and cut off all blood flow in and out of his skull. His brain was dead. The family knew he was an organ donor and knew he had a helping heart and soul. It hurt like hell to let him go. It hurts every day and knowing that his organs helped others doesn't make that pain any better for me. However, I suspect not doing so would have left us feeling like we had acted against his wishes and his nature.
Reading about another young man who had similar trama that lived broke my heart, but I know God called my brother homed. That other man was the exception, not the rule. Death happens when it happens, we do not know when the soul enters or leaves the human body because that is not our's to know. Accepting that is part of accepting that man is not God.
I am still an organ donor because I think it is the right thing to do, to help others. If there are doctors rushing death, they will pay their dues. Life is not easy and there is always a risk. Our duty in life is to do the best we can. We did the best we could for my brother by honoring his wishes and his spirit.

When is someone officially dead?

Jane, Bethel, Alaska — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 21:11:59 GMT

Whatever happened to save one life, save the whole world?

At 18 years of age I became a blood donor and was then listed on my Oregon drivers license as an organ donor. I am 52 years old now and still believe as I did 34 years ago that there is no greater gift than that of giving life to a total stranger. I donated my son's organs at his passing.

After moving to Alaska I also was placed on a list of marrow donors. Nothing has changed my original belief in organ donations. I have known people who died for lack of an organ or marrow transplant. I know of no one who died before their time donating an organ, or blood, or marrow.

Donating is a personal decision that each person has to make for themselves.

When is someone officially dead?

Diane Alexander — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 21:12:20 GMT

When my 36 yr old son died I was very gladdened that someone was given the ability to walk. My son's heart had had a deadly heart attack.... but was very dead...but his gift of tissue helped another. Let's stop finding problems... they are still around...but so are solutions.

When is someone officially dead?

HL, NZ — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 22:49:13 GMT

Anne, only allowing organ donors to receive organs, or prioritising organ donors over non-donors is utterly unethical. There will be many individuals who opt against being listed as a donor due to religious reasons, or medical reasons, e.g., some individuals may not be medically able to pass on healthy organs to others in the event of their death. There will also be thousands of people who, despite wanting to list themselves as a donor, don't get around to it, or unaware of the necessity of doing it; and it is barbaric to withhold organs to these individuals simply because they aren't listed as a donor.

When is someone officially dead?

reinadelaz — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 23:11:31 GMT

I hope and pray to God that I will never again be in a position that, for self-serving reasons, I will change my position on organ/tissue donation. But to those who claim they can guarantee that proper procedures are followed regarding transplant, I say BULL!! I was told by an ortho surgeon that I had time to decide whether I wanted human or synthetic tissue in a wrist reconstruction. He was late to the surgery, arrived after the anastesiologist (sp), and , without consulting my spouse, used human tissue, which was NOT what I had decided on. And I am not glad to have it. If I need any other transplant, God help me or take me, because I believe this is a SICK SICK practice and I do not trust our society or our healthcare system to harvest or distribute organs in an ethical way. This transplant business only started as a way to milk more money out of illness to start with! Anyone who believes that the very rich cannot buy whatever they want in this country does not understand a capitalist economy!

When is someone officially dead?

Dean Gunraj — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 00:31:11 GMT

A person should be considered dead when they can no longer support their life functions, i.e. they need to be on life support to stay alive. I don't know if anyone said this one yet... Forgive me if they did.

When is someone officially dead?

Francine argano, Esq., Watchung, NJ — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 00:32:40 GMT

I am not Jewish but I am an attorney and I agree with the Orthodox Jewish people. DeEad is when the entire body stops functioning, not just the brain. The fact is only God can decide what is dead and the law should remain neutral. However, political influences, especialy from insurance companies, encourage lawmakers and Judges to declare people as dead to move them along. Organ donation, and insurance costs, are at the heatrt of these laws and the pushing of medical directives not to resucciate or prolong life. Now we even have the disabled, like poor Shrivo, being legally murdered. What is worse, most people are not aware of how their organs are harvested, and when they find out that they are actually alive, they change their minds. You can protect yourself from the law with proper legal documents. Contact me or another legal professional to discuss your alternatives.

When is someone officially dead?

Bruce Stratton, cottonwood, CA — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 00:55:02 GMT

PLEASE PEOPLE, DON'T RELY ON THE "SOME GUY IN OREGON" STORIES TO DETERMINE YOUR STATUS AS A DONOR OR NOT. I AM A NURSE, AND ASK YOU ALL TO LEARN ALL THE FACTS BEFORE YOU MAKE ANY DECISIONS REGARDING THIS IMPORTANT AN ISSUE. I AM ALSO A DONOR FOR ANYTHING THEY CAN USE. THANK YOU.

When is someone officially dead?

indianapolis — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 01:18:18 GMT

people shouldn't take scripture out of context! it could cost someone their soul by making the religious community look ignorant.

When is someone officially dead?

Jerry Fenstermacher — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 02:02:14 GMT

Clearly, people are dead when we can hold them down and cut their guts out. All minorities to the front of the line please.

When is someone officially dead?

Patricia, — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 02:02:28 GMT

Sometimes, especially when the patient is young a machine can register them as brain dead when they are not. The reason why they are not able to register any brain activity is because that organ has gone into a dormant state to repair itself. They have not yet to this date developed any accurate tests to ascertain whether someone who does not have any brain activity is truly brain dead. For that matter, the guy in Oregan is not the only case of someone being declared brain dead that ended up waking up from a coma. There was this 19 year old college student who was in a car accident away from home. On his driver's liscence, he declared himself a donor. His father came and signed papers for his organs to be harvested. His mother however wanted them to wait till she got there before they removed the organs. When she arrived, there was a disagreement as to whether his organs should be harvested. As she was the custodial parent, (they were divorced and the son had grown up with Mom) They had to bow to her wishes. A few days later, he awoke out of his coma. He was featured on the Oprah show about ten years ago, still recovering and able to function well enough to do an interview. He later went back to college and completed his studies. My parents do not agree with organ donations because of their ancestrial heritage and religion; however, I did not share their beliefs and did have myself as a donor on my driver's liscence; after I heard this story, I promptly removed it.

When is someone officially dead?

J.Smith, Phila.,PA — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 02:03:48 GMT

Religion poisons everthing.

When is someone officially dead?

Thomas Indianapolis IN — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 02:26:23 GMT

Regardless of who makes the final call; the doctor or the Medical Examiner You are dead when they say you are, and believe me they don’t just try to feel a pulse!!!!!!

When is someone officially dead?

Just thinking — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 02:43:15 GMT

Okay, so if someone's heart stops beating, forget resuscitation and start harvesting organs?

You can live, temporarily, without a heart (on life support). Hearts can be and -have been- transplanted. Therefore, "heart stops functioning" is not a valid definition of death, scientifically. You can come back from "heart death."

Of course, a religious belief is not necessarily scientifically based. It's probably best for highly religious individuals who believe in the heart-death standard not to sign up for organ donation. Problem solved.

When is someone officially dead?

Brad, NY — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 03:28:21 GMT

"Brain Death" is only a recent (1960s-1970s) definition made up by doctors to ensure viable organ donations. At first, the majority of doctors were against it based on moral grounds. However as society progresses and we think ourselves to be smarter and smarter, the definition has been mainstreamed. You probably think that as science progresses, definitions change. Agreed, but we still cannot play God. As noted previously, there are documented cases where brain dead patients have awoke. I guess some people believe that it is in their power, and up to them to decide to kill one person for the sake of others. I for one would not want that on my conscience.

When is someone officially dead?

Amanda, Dallas — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 03:41:05 GMT

First organ harvesting of a "brain dead" patient even though everyone agrees that he is still physically alive. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next decade some people decide to start harvesting organs from terminally ill patients still maintaining brain function - just to "alleviate" the suffering. Where do we draw the line? Would law allow a live healthy person to essentially kill themselves to donate organs for a loved one (i.e. mother for a son)? What is the difference? There are no limits once we start walking down the path of skewed self-righteous reasonings.

When is someone officially dead?

j.murphy — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 04:05:42 GMT

I am a retired nurse and have had to ask many times if the family wished have the deceased person's organs such as skin or parts of the eye donated. Some were very confused about procedures. After an explanation of how the body is treated very respectively, the majority agreed to donate. My sister lost a kidney to cancer and now may be in trouble with the remaining kidney. She has never smoked or drunk liquor so it is not from a life of living on the edge. When the time comes that she may need a kidney, I will be the first one to step up and be tested. I wonder how God must look at people who refuse to give so that others may live. Did not his son do the same for all of us. I watched my uncle die before he could recieve a lung transplant and have seen many alcholics receive liver transplants but who am i to say who gets what. I am on the organ donation list for anything they can use and then just bury the rest because after all we eventually will be nothing but dust in a hole in a cemetery one day. And then i really do not need it at all do i . This is about helping your fellow man or doing unto others as you would want them to do unto you.

When is someone officially dead?

Jane, Atlanta, GA — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 04:05:52 GMT

Regarding the post:

"Above all else, guard your heart,
for it is the wellspring of life.

Proverbs 4:23 (New International Version)"

That verse does not pretain to the literal heart. Come on peeps. Don't Christians get a bad enough rap. Do we really have to start taking verses out of context just to make a point???

When is someone officially dead?

Mike, Philadelphia,PA — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 04:26:35 GMT

Some of you religious people baffle me. One day the truth will set religious people free from the imprisonment of their minds.

When is someone officially dead?

Michael — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 04:44:07 GMT

We should consider adding an option of designating to what country shall I offer my organs available, making countries held accountable of their respective policies and attitudes regarding world opinion, if you are not my friend you are a goner lol

When is someone officially dead?

Jean M. Topeka Kansas — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 04:53:15 GMT

Several years ago my family had to decide whether to donate my fathers' organs. He was 55 years old and had fallen down a flight of stairs. He had a severe brain injury and was determined to be brain dead three days after the accident. Luckily all members of our family agreed to donate his organs, skin, bones, and eyes. It was the most difficult decision I have ever had to make in my life and I have never regretted it.
At that time, I was a nurse who was involved with the organ donation team at the hospital where I worked on neuro post surgical unit. I KNEW the other side of this side of this ordeal and had, on many occasions, approached families to request their brain dead loved ones’ organs. I knew the policies of the national network that is in place to coordinate donations.
My father had no chance for recovery and I knew that within minutes of seeing him. But my heart goes out to families who don't know. The man declared brain dead, showed signs that he wasn't. Some knowledgeable person picked up on, and/or, at some point explained these signs to his family. They had watched nurses perform these tests many times I am sure.
The key to this dilemma is knowledge. Personal beliefs help you to make this decision and religion plays a part for many people. Whether we agree or not, we have to respect this. However, make it an INFORMED decision. Educate yourself if you have questions or concerns. What would you want if this situation happened to you or to someone you loved? Talk with your clergy, your parents, your kids, your friends about it.
I KNOW my dad would have wanted to help others. It has always comforted me to know that he lives on within the lives of others. He gave the gift that allowed many people to live a normal productive life.

When is someone officially dead?

Jean M, Kansas — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 05:02:23 GMT

Several years ago my family had to decide whether to donate my fathers' organs. He was 55 years old and had fallen down a flight of stairs. He had a severe brain injury and was determined to be brain dead three days after the accident. Luckily all members of our family agreed to donate his organs, skin, bones, and eyes. It was the most difficult decision I have ever had to make in my life and I have never regretted it.
At that time, I was a nurse who was involved with the organ donation team at the hospital where I worked on neuro post surgical unit. I KNEW the other side of this side of this ordeal and had, on many occasions, approached families to request their brain dead loved ones’ organs. I knew the policies of the national network that is in place to coordinate donations.
My father had no chance for recovery and I knew that within minutes of seeing him. My heart goes out to families who don't know. The man declared brain dead, showed signs that he wasn't. Some knowledgeable person picked up on, and/or, at some point explained these signs to his family. I am sure they watched nurses perform these neuro checks many times.
The key to this dilemma is knowledge. Personal beliefs help you to make this decision and religion plays a part for many people. Whether we agree or not, we have to respect this. However, make it an INFORMED decision. Educate yourself if you have questions or concerns. What would you want if this situation happened to you or to someone you loved? Talk with your clergy, your parents, your kids, your friends about it.
I KNOW my dad would have wanted to help others. It has always comforted me to know that he lives on within the lives of others. He gave the gift that allowed many people to live a normal productive life.

When is someone officially dead?

jenn...ontario canada — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 05:04:43 GMT

People...some of you are sick indivduals, I sincerly hope one day that the government makes it law to take everyones organs after they die.There seems to be alot of selfish individuals on here. do you realize how many lives could be saved, but instead you would all hope for some miraculous come back from brain death. Sounds to me like alot of people really are brain dead yet still walking! To the man thats daughters lungs are failing...im terribly sorry to hear that and for the fact that you have had to read such stupid blogs. my thoughts are with you!

When is someone officially dead?

Larry — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 06:07:02 GMT

People should decide whether to be a donor or not and if so at what point they want to be considered dead. What is so hard about that. Beyond that let people make up their own minds.

When is someone officially dead?

BBledsoe — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 06:45:24 GMT

I would like to hear from the man who was thought to be dead for four hours.'
I wonder what his thoughts are on the topic.

When is someone officially dead?

BBledsoe — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 06:52:13 GMT

To the Christians from another Christian, would the Christ who said "if a man asks for your cloak, give him your coat also" be against organ donation?
I know there are cases where the soul leaves the body before the heart stops beating. You can feel it and see it.

When is someone officially dead?

Linda D., Seattle WA — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 07:06:10 GMT

As a hospice nurse, I've had to talk to the organ procurement organization when patients have died. Very few patients are acceptable as organ donors. Due to cancer or age, many families of a deceased patient are not even approached.

Unfortunately, organs must be removed from the donor while they are still being perfused by the heart, meaning the heart is still beating. Otherwise, the organs begin to deteriorate quickly and can't be used. A person can be brain dead but still have a beating heart. That is why they do it the way they do. The really sad part is that this usually is the result of a traumatic injury, such as an automobile accident, gunshot wound, etc.

By the way, I'm an organ donor should something ever happen to me, and I used to be a regular blood donor.

When is someone officially dead?

Joyce, - - -W. Columbia, SC — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 09:15:13 GMT

Our Pastors' Wife just had a, "Pancreas & Kidney Transplant", Thank God, she is doing Great!!!
I really didn't know that much about Organ Donations, until I read this Blog, & quite frankly, I now have a problem with, Organ Donations, since I just found out, the Person is not, "Clinically Dead", when the Organs are taken.
In my opinion, "YOU ARE NOT DEAD, UNTIL YOUR HEART STOPS BEATING, FOR GOOD"!!!
To take Organs from someone while they still have a Beating Heart,to me, is KILLING that person.
The way I see it is,if you open up a person & remove their Organs, while they are Still Breathing & have a HEART BEAT, That is not only, "IN-HUMAN", it is also, "M U R D E R"!!!

When is someone officially dead?

Patrick D.C. M. OH. — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 11:24:10 GMT

How do they know this "High Ranking Doctor" is really who he says he is?... The harvesters could easily say that he was and it not be true!.... This is another reason why people over there hate Israel and America, because people like us think we can step in and attempt to take their traditions and change their religious beliefs, all for the purpose of profit and greed!.. Sad!

When is someone officially dead?

jason veneta oregon — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 12:10:47 GMT

1st i want to say i am an organ donor. although it does save lives there r many many problems with organ donation, like the fact that most recipents only live for a limited # of yrs after implant of a donor organ. but i think the most ridiculous argument is that of people not donating because of the fact that they might not really be brain dead. i mean u better make sure u r cremated then 'cause u might wake up in the coffin 6 ft under. i respect the persons right to choose therefore i don't feel that pressuring a person to make a decision 1 way or the other is right.
the 1 thing i know for a fact is that if our government and the religious fanatics would take the stick out of thier butts and get on with stem cell research(which can be done without a fetus by the way)and cloning, we will be able to end the organ shortage and the multitude of problems that go with it.
imagine u r in the midst of liver failure, and u finally receive a new transplant. now u have to take immune supressants the rest of the time that liver is in u. so now ur facing the possibility of new infections that probably would never have found u prior to the transplant, and by the way that liver may work fine for 1 day or 10 yrs but it can be rejected at anytime by ur body. now imagine that u have that same diagnosis of liver failure but because 5 yrs or so ago the door was finally opened to research on cloning, the doctors can take a few healthy cells from ur liver and grow u a new 1 in a petri dish.
(that's right they don't have to grow a whole new u to sacrifice for a liver) this new liver is an exact copy of ur malfunctioning liver only healthy. when they implant that baby u don't have to worry about rejection. it's like ur liver took a walk and now its back. ur body does not see it as an intruder.
or imagine ur r paralyzed from the neck down. ur spinal cord does not regenerate so for the rest of ur life if u need anything someone else does it for u. u can not even have a bowel movement without assistance. again if the powers that be had allowed stem cell research u might be a canidate for implantaion of stem cells that could allow ur spinal cord to grow back thus allowing u to regain some or all of ur previous mobility.
just something to consider.

When is someone officially dead?

Curtis, Seattle, WA — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 12:34:07 GMT

Definitions of dead will change in years to come.

We've shown now that bodies can be revived without a hear beating for possibly up to 8 hours under the right conditions without a heart beating, before suffering brain damage. The only thing keeping us from effectively doing that yet is the technology... right now most people would die from such attempted an attempt to bring them back because the cells' mitochondria are for some reason targeting the cells with quickly replenished oxygen supplies as cancer cells and then killing them off. There is research going on in wars to more slowly introducing oxygen back into the cells and restarting respiration in a manner that won't tag the cells as cancer cells and will thus avoid them being offed and finally actually killing patients.

The body has enough oxygen to last a while when the organs are doing little or no work, especially under the right environment (they're working with salene solutions to allow them to cool the body further without freezing so as to cause damage IIRC).

So even if someone's heart is stopped, they're not really quite as dead as we once thought. It turns out that it was our most often peoeple's own bodies that would kill off the cells when oxygen was quickly reintroduced.

Give it a few more years and you'll see people being brought back from a lot further out. There's a discrepency between when they're announced dead and when the cells actually die. Just because our medical technology cannot deal past a certain point, yet, doesn't mean that there's no coming back... give the technology a few more years and you'll see what I'm talking about (there have been articles on it, but alas, the techniques and technologies haven't been perfected yet).

I think I'm going to reserve organ donation for if a member of my family needs it, but that's because I would be prepared to give my life for them.