China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Clark Everett, Chicago, IL — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 15:02:52 GMT

Adrienne, Thanks for posting this info about the Three Gorges Dam and the changes it is bringing. I lived for over one year in Yichang, Hubei province, which is about 20 miles or so from the dam. This is a huge, complex project, which conjures up a wide array of emotions. Take a look at this website, www.clarkeverett.com, which shows some of the lives being impacted both upstream and downstream from the dam.

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Jay Ashby, Houston, TX — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:05:52 GMT

Interesting report. You did NOT see the real issues there (probably because of Press credentials)

The engineering feat is terrific. They took lock design from Panama Canal and made much better.

The land slides as blamed on dam back up waters is a smoke screen. That land along the river is unstable. Slides occur often. Re settlement is an expected event. All Nations expereince that; even here when a new water storage project is decided.

Issues: Along the way, the typical graft & corruption took hold. Specific examples they did NOT show you (probably due to the red rat poision diversion; well acted out)

1) NO bottom gate was buit to allow silts from floods to escape down river. Now, already the silt build up at dam up river base is quite large (and filling is not yet compete). This will put added stresses on dam strength and reduce the watwer depth; which will cause added issues later.

The cement "factory" on site was pumpling out huge lots of cement as they worked around the clock. The water content was not maintained - more water per batch was used. Now evidence of sprawling is there to see. Cememnt is weakened to some degree.

The steel rebar was cheated in constructiion. I saw blocks of cement removed to fix which had NO rebar inside. now??? where else is that that I did not see???

Industrial Pollution in and around Chonquin (major city up river) is absolutely staggering and getting worse because of incresed river traffic in goods and raw materieal. Can be fixed by flitering the stacks,...but the will and direction is not there.

The river cruise is excelelnt both in the boats/accomdations and in scenery. The Pea Pod side trip is a fun event. *** Up river trip is best as takes more time, e.g. more value for money.

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

pete livingstone saskatchewan. canada — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:42:53 GMT

ONE thing thats most worrisome aspect of this dam is the geological setting on which the dam rest,s on, and earth quakes that has been recorded, in the area and its potential for a nighmare,{ 400 million people??}and the eco..damage...

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Jim Burks, Memphis, TN — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:54:59 GMT

This project gives China electricity without burning coal or nuclear. If we believe in global warming and want to stop it, what's a better answer?

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Mike Hancho, Portland OR — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:58:54 GMT

HAHAHA, RATS! that is a great one, figures. China, the great castle built on a foundation of toothpicks.

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

mikebarr — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 17:12:12 GMT

Given China's dismal environmental record, it beats building carbon burning power plants.

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Graham, Lloydminster, AB — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 17:15:43 GMT

I will await anxiously the end result of such an undertaking. The Aswan dam ended up being a break even proposition (the energy used to create the dam man hours, equipment, fuel, etc. will equal the dam's potential output during it's life). This dam severely damaged the Nile delta and wreaked havoc in the area. Undoubtedly the Chinese government do not give a rat's rear end about the ecological impact or the huge potential for devastating earthquakes by pooling water over a thin fracturous area of the earths geological plates.
As for the comment referring to global warming, well said. However, building such a dam whilst thumbing your nose at all the critics is perhaps not the most prudent of measures. Man's arrogance knows no bounds. Remember the flooding a few years ago when the Mississippi spilled it's banks? It was stated decades ago that you cannot dam nor levy this river. It is simply too big, too powerful. Did we listen, not a lick! After all, we humans are so much more powerful and intelligent than Mother Nature. And now, we as a people will bear witness to another one of man's arrogant creations and the destruction that will follow. After all this time, you would think we would learn.

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Jim Menicucci, San Francisco, Ca. — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 17:16:19 GMT

As with most communist undertakings, nepotism and fraud run rampant. People do not have the money to buy things, so they are "stolen" by family and friends. Same situation in the construction of the dam. This is a great undertaking and an awsome global energy relief...but, when the construction is overseen by your family and the inspections done by your neighbors and or best friends...the chance for a huge ecological and humanitarian disaster is scary.

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

AL ANDREOLA COLONIA.N.J — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 17:20:54 GMT

If the quality of this project is anything like whate we have seen coming out of this country, i would be very worried.

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Leonard L. Radlie, Kane, Pa — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 17:32:49 GMT

The Chinese in my mind haven't shown to use any common sense at all. They have displaced millions of people for a project that if one national disaster happens in the form of a severe earthquake could wipe out major populations. Time will tell. Sediment building up behind the dam could produce added pressures unless removed or dredged out. In this totalitarian society and I see it happening all over the world in unchristianized areas especially in the moslem world natural disasters seem to be on the increase. Man has denied GOD and his existence and GOD has given mankind a way out in that of Jesus Christ. China will be driven to her knees in the end regardless of what happens in the interim.

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Michelle M. Boisvert — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 17:37:35 GMT

Has an environmental impact study regarding the presence of a large quantity of rat poison in the water basin been conducted? Results? or was this, as stated, a well designed propoganda diversion tactic?

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Gary Wilson, San Luis Obispo, CA — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 17:53:47 GMT

Regarding the comment about no rebar, of course there would be no rebar. There is no rebar in Hoover Dam either (except for special sections as around access tunnels, etc.). So, can we believe any other things that you said?

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

A Choy — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 18:04:44 GMT

You win some, you lose some. Hydroelectric is one of the cleaniest ways to produce electricity, but then it can create a huge environmental impact. But then most power generation creates some environmental issue (except for Solar/Wind), pollution, nuclear waste, etc.

30-years from now, history will be able to judge whether the dam is a success or failure.

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Richard Donato, Chicago, Il — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 18:22:29 GMT

It doesn't beat carbon burning plants. Western engineers calculated that more silt will build up than all the dredges in the world could possibly handle. There was also a fear of changing weather patterns. As silt builds up and water speads out, the disaster potential builds. Funny, no one mentioned the possibility of rats.

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Chris McCoy — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 18:36:13 GMT

Coal or Hydro? They have a over a billion people in an emerging economy demanding more and more electricity. Even with all it's problems, this is one of the most foward-seeing projects China has ever accomplished. It's not perfect, and I question the ability of a corrupt, unelected communist regieme to maintain it, but it's better than the alternative (20-30 new coal-burning power plants).

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Jai, Quohong, China — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 18:37:20 GMT

There will be 25 feet of sediment backed up for a mile by year's end...ALREADY! That was the last report I had heard. Enough sand, dirt, and rocks to fill fifty football stadiums! They will start 'drawing' it out sooner or later; loading it on dump trucks to haul away around the clock.

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Jon Phillips in New Jersey — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 18:37:41 GMT

I love it, everything the Chinese do is wrong, or at least until they agree with us on new UN sanctions against Iran. Then this same damn will be a marvel of engineering, and a monumentus step towards lowering green house gases.

I'm surprised this article even remotley shows the damm in a bad light. Since most of the moving parts were supplied by GE. (who pays the salary of the guy who wrote this)( ow ya they built the nuculear reactor in North Korea too) but whose counting.

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

chris — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 18:45:08 GMT

Like the idea of shutting down coal power plants but what happens when the pool fills up with silt i mean with no lower door to purge it your gona need a tanker fulltime just to keep the turbins clean

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

kamaki, hawaii — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 18:49:53 GMT

if GE Hydro/NBC Universal turbines fail or contribute to failure, will corporate officials be executed, as is the norm in China??

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Karsten falke,pierce,Tx. — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 18:51:20 GMT

Mr. Burks is right.What better way to get clean energy than by hydropower?

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Alan Brookes — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 20:49:11 GMT

No bottom gates for silt removal? Funny, when I was there last year we were told there were and you could see them from the down river side, closed. They won't be used until the lake is full. Quality of concrete was very uneven with spawling visible on lock walls. But anything that helps lower coal smog would be welcome, except it won't. The country uses
electricity like there is no tomorrow.

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Ken, MN — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 21:38:33 GMT

Hey, Leonard L. Radlie, Kane, Pa. Natural disasters are god punishing us? Why did Katrina and Rita happen? Why all the wildfires recently spurred by Santa Ana winds? Last winter's blizzards in the midwest? Floods in Minnesota and the Northwestthis year? Drought in the South and the Southwest. All the above causing death and economic devastation. (Wow, we must be one EVIL country.)

I really would be interested in hearing your version of why a vengeful god caused all these to happen. Details on each one, please. Feel free to add any natural disasters that I did not include in the short list above.

Thanks for your response.

(BTW, Since you did not capitalize Moslem, I felt god and christian did not need to be capitalized either.)

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Little wheels make good neighbors — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 21:47:06 GMT

Tie all the Chinese communists to the old-fashioned force wheel previously driven by oxen/cattle/mules/horses to generate on-site energy. One billion red-blooded Reds, four to a wheel, would result in 250 million such devices. Talk about an ecologically correct, green application from the Red Collective! Dam* the dam, but use the 'man'...with no silting, seismic, or pollution parameters to boot.

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Steve , Phoenix Az — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 22:20:31 GMT

Its great that they are getting with the Hydro power program..but what about all the accent artifacts that have been lost to the river. most of China's history was made in the gorges. They only allowed so many people up stream to remove artifacts and many have been lost what a shame.

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Rich Zep, New Joisey — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 22:47:04 GMT

The dam design is interesting in that it's straight. Such a long straight structure would more than likely have a great deflection in the center which would cause terrific stresses at the ends.

I sure hope they did a good rock and seismic study. If this thing breaks it'll make the Grand Teton collapse look like a puddle splash

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Ryan, NC — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 23:04:47 GMT

Oh yeah Leonard, they don't need hydropower. They need Jesus Power! "Christianize" those "moslems"! LOL

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Harold E., Missouri — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 23:26:24 GMT

Several of you keep talking about some "silt doors" at the bottom of the dam. I don't remember seeing any "doors" at the bottom of any U.S. built dams, and I have been to Bagnell Dam in Missouri quite a few times and don't remember any there. Yes there will be a huge amount of silting as there is with any new dam and the destruction of vegitation that goes with it. Is it a huge project, yes, and of course there is huge risk, but also possibly huge reward, if things work as they were designed. This kind of go big or go home thinking used to be applauded in this country. Think we could even consider a project like this in this country? I doubt it.

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Gustavo, Oak Hill, Va. — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 23:28:46 GMT

"NBC News was invited by the Chinese officials ... we were intrigued enough to take a closer look at Beijing's well-oiled propaganda machinery."

Was that a preconceived suspicion of the Chinese or do you have some facts to back-up this irrational statement of condemnation?
Until then, I say, horse manure! Stick to the facts, be a reporter, leave the well-oiled bull to others. By the way, have you better a mouse trap? I have a rodent problem around my property.

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

John Doe, P.E., New York, NY — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 23:36:05 GMT

"The steel rebar was cheated in constructiion. I saw blocks of cement removed to fix which had NO rebar inside. now??? where else is that that I did not see??? "

People in construction call that "concrete". "Cement" is an ingredient of concrete. Most laypeople refer to concrete as "cement".

There goes the credibility of the contributor.

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

S Lee, Santa Barbara, California — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 23:58:38 GMT

BAD IDEA for a myriad of reasons! The cons definitely outweigh the pros on this one. Hydropower is a clean way to get energy, but what about all the fossil fuels that will be used to power the tankers and trucks that will be running around the clock to remove the sediment buildup? What about the displaced people who are now crowding into other areas not designed to accommodate such large populations? What about all the habitat for wildlife that is now submerged or polluted as a result of this dam? Not to mention the possibility of weather change, landslides, earthquakes that will affect the well-being and livelihood of millions of people. Again, hydropower is a great idea on paper and sometimes in practice, but this really seems like another short-sighted effort to show the world how forward-thinking socialist governments are, which has done the exact opposite...

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

d_day — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 00:47:49 GMT

This just in...

The three gorges dam contains lead paint, and will turn into GHB when exposed to water.

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Banessa B.C., Beaverton, Oregon — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 01:16:11 GMT

This is a good project but it comes with many risks. The Dam is on a fault line and could break during an earhquake, or what if the silt shutes don't work and silt builds up and the Dam eventually becomes a waterfall? What about all those people near the Dam, if it breaks all the water built up will submerge many cities and kill many people. It is a negative way to control over-popultion, I'm pretty sure they don't want to die. Well what do you guys think?

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Charlie Meza, The Colony, Tx — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 02:24:33 GMT

The silt can be flushed out by openeing all the gates for short periods. God forbid this dam is ever breached. It will certainly reduce the population of that country. All in all I think it's a great accomplishment. Hey they could have done worse. The U.S built Lake Amistad upstream from Del Rio, TX daming the Rio Grande river, The devils River and Pecos. They are supposed to share the water with Mexico but our Farmers continue to get the shaft since Mexico abuses the U.S share of the water and pay's it back when ever it feel's like it. You can actually fly across the border and see the crops on the U.S side to dry to produce, yet on the Mexican side the fields are all green as can be. The Dam at lake Amistad was built to produce Hydrpower the U.S Congress would not approve to activation of the turbines for many year's. I hope that was resolved and is nowproducing hydro, if not what a waste.

Charlie, The Colony, TX

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

T. Stevens, Plano Texas — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 04:02:36 GMT

The comment that the Hoover Dam has no rebar is a false hood. Clearly Mr. Wilson has not a clue of what he is talking about. The fact is that the Hoover Dam has 70,000,000 lbs of rebar and other associated structural steel. No sound concrete structure of that is built to last for an appreciable amount of time is constructed without rebar, particularly if it is to resist ~25 tons of force per square foot of upstream surface area as does the Hoover Dam. I know because I have been doing engineering for near 5 decades.

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Suzanne Dobbs — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 04:08:29 GMT

And where did the Chinese obtain all the money this dam will cost? Look on just about every product you buy,(right down to American flags) and you'll see who is paying for this at the expense of American jobs and better quality control.

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

MDH Sacramento, Ca. — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 04:32:22 GMT

Three Gorges has a rat problem? Simple: use the lead paint on the dam. I hear its pretty tasty!

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Ron Sawyer, Palmdale Ca — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 04:39:50 GMT

Don't we have enough to concern ourselves with right here at home. China does whatever it chooses to do lets concentrate on our own problems. When we get it together then we can start telling others what to do.

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Nanjing, China — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 05:21:59 GMT

what are you guys really worried about? a dam collapse? a bio catastrophe?
you americans consume most of the global resources and emit most of green gas but you even did not sign Kyoto protocol, and now you just sit back and pick on a project which is obviously bio-ecologically better than any alternatives just because it is in china. do you think that's what a responsible country should do?
Yes, china has its own problems, but it's ours. just don't worry about it, we can handle it.
my family has lived along this untamed river for generations, you just don't know what the annual flooding means. listen, we enjoy the peace of mind this project had already brought to us and we believe in our scientists who takes dozens of years calculating and planning just like we believe china will be much better tomorrow.
taking off your coloured glasses you'll see a clearer china.

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Glenn, Phoenix, AZ — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 06:30:19 GMT

3 Gorges is a tremendous engeneering achievment. It is also a huge waste of resources. With a footprint the approximate size of four footballs fields, the Chinese could have constructed a single nuclear facility with greater energy output at signifigantly lower external cost.

This is what happens when governments, motivated by anything other than rational self interest, get involved in these sorts of projects.

National palaces, like the 3 Gorges Demand, Versailles, and our own Washington, D.C., are awe inspiring. But we don't see them often replicated in the private sector or liberal economies precisely because they are hugely inefficient methods of resource allocation.

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

CAtherine — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 07:27:14 GMT

Recently, price of oil has been terribly going up and unavoidably we all will be facing up the crisis of non-renewable fossil fuel sooner or later. That is why it is a sort of option to generate the energy without/less using of non-renewable resources. However, the potential risk of this project is dangerous inundation around areas during heavy rainfalls/storms. Proper/Secured diversion route/channel for emergency situation should have been planned before destroying massive amount of lives and properties. Rehabilitation cost is substantially costly than that of prevention.

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Icey winher — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 07:32:01 GMT

Who cares if they damage their nation's ecology, as long as they don t damage ours. Hydro wont send smog across the the pacific

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

zhousheng,zhengzhou,henan — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 08:28:18 GMT

china only need to develop

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Peter, Surrey BC Canada — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 11:10:59 GMT

So everyone is talking about environment? Well let see this dam is providing equal to how many nuclear plant's? WOW what about earthquake in one of these places? and how many people would die? What about Chernobyl? According to everyone there is no better solution so why don't we all stop doing anything until we come with good idea for solution for energy but at the mean time please everybody stop using electricity remember it causes environmental disaster and you are part of it? And last thing I have to say good work CHINA you done it better then most other parts in the world :)

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Amy, Buffalo, WY — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 12:37:02 GMT

Concrete quality (and spalling) is always an issue - as is corruption in projects of that size. My first thought reading the article was of the rat poison IN THE WATER! Efficient energy source poisoning everything that relies on the river. Good plan.

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Khaled A, Houston, Texas — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 13:01:53 GMT

The Chinese should be recognized for trying to control a river that has terrorized many lives with it's floods, and I applaud their fight for clean, non-nuclear energy, they might be able to teach their neighbor Iran a couple of things...

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Jason bond, Bournemouth,U.K. — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 13:50:02 GMT

I find it strange that a country with such a strong history for invention (paper, fireworks, sweet and sour chicken.) should be so readily critisised for trying to produce a massive renewable energy source to reduce the impact that their country has on the global environment. that said I find myself hoping that history doesn't repeat itself because if there is a high magnitude earthquake the dam will fold like paper the reservoir will explode down river like a firework taking all that silt with it and Chinas achievement will indeed be sweet and sour!!!

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

John Finnerty,Annapolis,MD. — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 14:04:13 GMT

Well, I'm concerned that they may have reinforced the walls with all the lead left over from the now defunct toy manufacturers industry instead of rebar. It's sorta of "GREENE" mentalility you know (recylce,recycle).
I personally feel that using all the lead will serve three purposes in this great egotistical venture.
1)..Is that once all the lead poisining occurs, it will start the brain deteriation process to all those people who rely on the river as drinking water.
2) Now that there poisened, they will not feel depressed about all them toy factory (sweat shops)jobs being lost.
3)And finally they will not have enough where-withall to evacuate in time and obviously help with the popualation explosion problem.
See how all this may have all been pre-planned By the great communist country called China.

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

WCH,Manasquan,NJ — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 14:24:05 GMT

Maybe the dam was built as a means of population control?

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Fred, New Jersey — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 14:40:39 GMT

Why is China always preoccupied with getting the biggest and the tallest? They're aiming for the tallest building, they already have the longest wall, they're planning huge bridges, and now, they're building the largest dam. Is it for pride and demonstration? They have humanitarian issues and life conditions are not superpower standard. They have to review their priorities.

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

jdhuggard — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 14:52:14 GMT

hello-GEbuilt the n.korea nuclear reactor/is the usa-it will haunt s.korea forever/we have tons of koreans here bying hotels/western canada is a haven for investment/minimum pollution/easy financing[except for sub prome mess]2010 isonly 2.5 years away/walking room only

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Rob, Peterborough, Ontario — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 15:14:39 GMT

I have been intimately involved for more than 10 years in the design, supply, installation and warranty service of 6 of the GE Hydro generators (supplied in conjunction with Siemens) for the Sanxia (Three Gorges) project. As a result of this involvement i have first hand experience, along with the scars (figuratively speaking), with the exhaustive scrutiny done by the Chinese customer of each and every component that went into our product. I have no reason to believe that all of the other world renowned suppliers involved in this project were not subjected to the same scrutiny during design liaison meetings, manufacturing and installation of their products.

China's Three Gorges Dam - a magnet for controversy

Jonathon Kelly, Alexandria, Va. — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 17:37:06 GMT

Go China, Thanx 4 tryin. Im rootin 4 ya. but dont left field us with some commy crap at the last minute. Sounds like ya might need some stronger cement and extra rebar. Better get an earthquake detector too. good luck peoples ~Jon