'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Andrea, San Dimas Ca — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 17:30:38 GMT

As a fellow officer and woman in the military I am humbled and inspired by your dedication to helping others. I had never identified a personal hero until now. Thank you for your inspiration and to the author for sharing your story.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Dawn Truelsen — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 17:53:32 GMT

Kudos to her! She sounds like a good person, and a great soldier. I hope my sons run into good medics like her.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

C. Meyer Lafayette, Indiana — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 17:55:37 GMT

God bless you. My husband is getting ready to head over there and I feel better knowing there are people like you over there. However, I hope he never has to met you and returns to our children and me safely.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Larry Phillips, Ft Worth, TX — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 18:04:54 GMT

My opinion is women should not be in combat positions
has nothing to do with their ability
I just think women are more precious than to be put into those situations
My ideas may come because of having served on submarines for 6 years, and sure do think they should be there, combat or not

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Female Comrade — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 18:34:23 GMT

A true hero. Wish we had more like her in our unit.
A good piece I think, deserves to front page so people can actually, see that us as women have the right to bare arms and fight for our country as the men do. I have seen it myself some women do hold up better than the men, but attributes do differ. Either way, I would stand by any soldier that would serve there country and even more if they make the ulitmate sacrifice. Kudos to all my sisters and brothers with there boots on the ground.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

J Kaplan, Rochester, NY — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 18:38:25 GMT

Women in combat is a tricky issue. Some women in the military are well-qualified for it while some aren't. How to designate which women should and which should not
be placed in combat roles in an official by-the book process would be impossible. When I was in the Marine Corps (during peacetime 96-01) I saw some women I would rather have next to me in combat than some of the less dependable male Marines. But only a few.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Dave P., Seattle, Wash. — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 18:49:47 GMT

Just because women can do something, doesn't mean they should. The problems that come from having men and women mixed together in units is easy to see, at least on the enlisted level. Lt. Col. Michael Oshiki doesn't exactly work at the squad level, so he probably isn’t in touch with what’s going on right now.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Kameya, jacksonville, fl — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 18:55:17 GMT

Great article. I'm a female and I just joined the army yesterday. Waiting to go to basic.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Beth Lee, Lubbock, TX — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 19:03:44 GMT

This is an impressive article about an impressive soldier. I wish we could hear more good like this as I know there's a lot of it that never gets reported.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

olin — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 19:11:51 GMT

I think it's about time we not only re-evaluate the role of women in combat, but the fitness tests that must be passed by all memebers of the military.
With the way combat is today, no armies lined up, directly confronting each other, with reasonably clear lines, anyone in a combat zone can be considered to be on the front lines.
Accepting this, maybe the Army needs to also accept a basic Marine Corps principle -every Marine is a basic rifleman-.
As far as I am concerned (I am a former Marine), if you are going to be in the service, you should have to be able to pass a rigorous fitness test, one that reflects the exertions you would face in combat. It should include running with full gear, negotiating obstacles etc.... The pass/fail criteria should also be the same for everyone. Combat doesn't distinguish between age or sex, neither should a fitness test for any personell who can possibly see combat.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

John Schwary — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 19:26:35 GMT

She's the embodiment of what America is really about.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Everett Franks — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 19:35:50 GMT

Who the hell would want a woman soldier beside
him in battle. They are not as capable due to
physical strength demands,etc. War is also not a
social expierement, so ladies get a grip on the
fact that you are not the same as men and stay
the hell out of the way. A Vietnam veteran.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

dawn harrison, ar — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 19:36:14 GMT

Why are our men and women being placed in harms way in this so called war, yet our government beleives it to be only a confrontation, giving th govrnment the right to nolonger pay hazard pay to these special people. Morters being dropper on you all day sounds like a VERY hazordus job to me.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Ron, OKC, USA — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 20:10:37 GMT

I admire women like Maj. Clarkson; she and the female soldiers like her are an invaluable part of today's armed forces. I see where they can do the job as well, or better, than men in many situations; but I agree that they should not be in combat by design. With few exceptions, women are smaller and weaker. In some combat scenarios, that may not be a liability, but there are many where it could be a huge problem for the women and her fellow soldiers. We need women to serve but let’s more stick them on the front line just yet.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Shelia — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 20:47:15 GMT

I hope I live to see women in all walks of life treated equally.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

C h sanctuary MS — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 20:49:16 GMT

Bah, tired of the "there is no front line" semantic argument. Its hogwash. All MOS's are expected to be able to defend themselves, and routinely find themselves the targets of IED and ambush in Iraq, thus prompting the over used and little understood "no front line" phrase. This type of reactionary combat is different from what combat arms are tasked with, although they experience their fair share of the ambushes. Combat arms are tasked to explicitly seek and and engage the enemy - this type of combat / mission has an entirely different set of physical requirements then the typical react to ambush type of combat that is most referenced in Iraq. And it is in this type of combat that women are particularly ill suited, as demonstrated time and again by every military in the world. This does not mean women are inferior, it simply means they are different. It is only those who do not understand the nature of the most demanding type of combat who don't have a problem with women participating in it.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

(Ms.) Ollie Rivers — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 20:55:41 GMT

The real reason women are not permitted in certified combat units is these are the units from which many, if not most, general officer promotions are made--all the way to General. Men do not want to increase the pool of prospective promotees by including women. Protection of (assumed) male perogatives is behind all of this, not the inability of woment to do the job needed.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Nathan Darnell, Pleasanton, CA — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 20:59:58 GMT

Are you freaking kidding me? She's a physical therapist and the other person quoted here is a Lt. Col. surgeon. These two people are so far removed from seeing actual combat or experiencing anything like what an Infantryman sees it's not even funny. Of course a rocket landed 300 feet away from her tent! (Oh, excuse me, she lives in a trailer) They land all over the place at a large base where officers hang out and try to look busy. Just because it's a low-intensity conflict and there are no well-defined enemy lines to cross, giving the whole area of conflict a certain measure of danger, doesn't mean she's fighting up on the front lines. If you think Infantry, SF and Rangers should be opened up to women, then you're crazy. I wasn't anything special, but I did make it through Ranger School while nearly two-thirds of my class quit or was booted out, and there is no way any of the women I met in the four years I was in could have made it through.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Anonymous, Fort Benning, Georgia — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 21:12:26 GMT

Whereas I applaud the service and welcome the comments of MAJ Clarkson, LTC Oshiki, and others serving in combat service roles, I disagree that somehow by proximity she (MAJ Clarkson) is either trained, capable and/or prepared to serve in a direct combat role.

I wholeheartedly agree with the idea that there is no true "front line" in the war in Iraq. But, pointedly, there is a major (and an inherently more dangerous) difference between serving in a medical combat service support role as a physical therapist in a combat zone and serving in a direct combat role in a regular infantry unit, much less a Special Forces or Ranger element. All line soldiers serving day-to-day in direct combat roles, walking on patrol and engaging the enemy on a regular basis, knows this fact. They also know that seemingly everyone, from policy makers to, yes, the news media including imbedded reporters (as well as the myriad of personnel in combat support and service support roles, sometimes known as “REMF’s”. If you don’t know what it means, you probably are one) THINK they know the difference, but typically do not.

In my experience as both a front line soldier in and later as an officer in US Army Special Operations units in direct support of combat operations in the Global War on Terror, many "wanna be's" opine that because of their proximity to combat, their personal assessments of their physical fitness, their various (some times dubious) motivations to serve in combat, and their desires for the benefits of inclusion in the small but growing "club" of seasoned combat veterans, they are both qualified and/or somehow entitled to serve in units that are doing these jobs and/or make “qualified assessments” of such organizations. There are few absolutes in the world, but, if you have never been a line soldier or officer in these units, it is nearly, if not completely impossible, to judge whether or not someone is fit to perform these dangerous and exceedingly difficult missions.
It is not, as LTC Oshiki states, necessarily that MAJ Clarkson and other females are considered less capable than men and/or that men can’t “handle women doing the job”, but, more so that 1) current US law prohibits women from serving in direct combat roles, and 2) that there is an unspoken mistrust of a system that forces upon and allows the continuation of reduced physical standards for females in other roles. Additionally, it is known full well that medical personnel, typically, are less physically fit and “mission ready” in tactical terms than their infantry (this of course includes Special Operations Forces) brethren.
Combat is not the place for anyone who cannot meet a single and rigorous standard for competence and fitness. Yes, there are plenty of hard charging female soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines currently serving in the ranks of the US armed forces, but, those that are operate under different physical fitness standards (for matched age) than their male counterparts. Anyone that has served a day in a combat unit knows that “on par” physical fitness and training is a keystone to unit cohesion. This is only one slice of the issue, but it is a key factor in understanding the mind-set of line commanders and the infantry soldier. A female who can keep up with the infantry/line soldiers in physical training, carry the same weight in training and in other support roles, and who can repeatedly perform the same (physical and non-physical) mission essential tasks that an infantry soldier is expected to perform, under duress, can and will earn a measure of respect and trust amongst those soldiers and officers. This in and of itself does not fully indicate the extent to which and the effectiveness with which the female soldier can perform the duties of the infantry soldier. Only training and experience can do that.
Currently, women in the United States armed forces are barred from serving in direct combat roles, true. No one would argue that in the current conflict that the conventional concept of a front line is not a reality on the ground in many if not most cases. Convoy operations and helicopter flights involving enemy fire aside, there is little in the story about MAJ Clarkson that would lead one (especially one who has been on the ground and knows the difference between flying over a firefight or providing aid to wounded soldiers after the event and actually being IN a fire fight) to lend any sympathy to hers or the reporters scarcely hidden agenda of promoting a brand of feminist activism.

Those of us who have been in Ranger and Special Forces units, who have been specially selected, screened and trained for the hardest assignments, and who have seen the ugly face of combat up close and personal, rather than just its gruesome aftermath, know and fully understand that is not a place for self promotion and/or career advancement. Rather, combat is a crucible of sheer terror, gut wrenching and face paced decisions, unending self-sacrifice, deep commitment to the welfare of your comrades over that of yourself, and grueling training followed by even more grueling situations, the experience from which tends to shy one away from self promotion and personal agenda promulgation.

Again I applaud MAJ Clarkson’s service, but, have to wonder aloud that this story has more to do with pushing a not so hidden agenda than speaking to the merits of an imperfect (but arguably necessary) current policy on women in combat.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

charles p. queen 120 crane st. somerset, kentucky 42502 — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 21:16:35 GMT

Spending over just 9 years in the Army special Forces and real world intell(viet nam era) times have changed and I myself being a male nco had many women in platoons that I ran and they did just as good and in many instances better then a lot of the male soldiers. I cannot in this time and day that females are not allowed in special forces when it's aknown fact that they are as every bit as able and competint to do just as well if not better then a lot of men in those roles. I for one find it a travesty that women are not allowed the same oppotunity's as males in these roles. Wake up Washington and the U.S.A and see the light and let the women that want to do their part be given the same chances as males.Ladies, I for one take you'r side in this matter

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Penny Fuller — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 21:20:32 GMT

Wow, you are awesome! Your story gives me courage to keep trying while unemployed and wondering how I will survive. If I ever met you, I would definitely bow/curtsy/salute/get your autograph or something. Keep up the great work!!

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Jonathan, Columbus, Ohio — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 21:35:45 GMT

While I think women can be in combat roles (specifically in which they're actually fighting others), I don't think they should be. To be in a combat situation is something entirely contrary to the feminine nature of women, women aren't designed to be aggressive, they're designed to be caregivers and nurturers, combat goes directly against this. However, I'm less against a woman being around combat, such as flying a helo picking up wounded, etc, than fighting. As I said, fighting and killing is contrary to the feminine nature, and I think the nurturing side of women should be protected and encouraged, and putting women into fighting roles does the opposite.

Ppl may view this as sexist, however, it's simply respect for the different design of men and women, we're designed for different roles, and so one gender is more or less capable of doing certain things than the other. While women are capable of fighting, they shouldn't be.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

D. Cleman Port Orchard Wa — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 21:41:20 GMT

God bless you! Prayers are with you all over there.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Amanda, Auburn, Alabama — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 22:00:21 GMT

Now that is what I call a great example of a modern female soldier! If men do not want females on the front line then that is there opinion but to be allowed to work in the environment she is working in only proves that we are caple as women when called upon to help our fellow soldier now matter where the "war or front line" may be! I think women do have there role in the military and should not be in an environment that makes her fellow soldier uncomfortable but being able to satisfactorily complete a task and be good at it is the most important thing and she is doing it!

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Keely Zayas, Lawrence, MA — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 22:08:10 GMT

Women have been in combat since this country has been in combat and before. I served with a "frontline" Infantry unit in Desert Storm. By front line I mean right there!! I was a medic and had enemy soldiers surrendering to me. If a women can perform physically, let her go into whatever job she is qualified to do. I took an ambulance squad of two other women and one man. We received casualties in areas that the medevac would not fly and were shot at right next to the 'infantry' male soldiers. and guess what? Each member of my squad was awarded the Combat Medic Badge which is given to medics who came under fire in a combat zone.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Dan Hagel, Wheatland, WY — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 22:10:01 GMT

Atta girl. Hang in there. Keep up the good work.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

david b — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 22:10:55 GMT

i like the way the freakin' writer is giving away how many stryker bases we have operating,also the way they give away how we do things---greaT! Just maybe you all airheads would realize that this is how the enemy is getting most of their intelligence--it is from the media---dumb@$$------you want a story so bad just to get promoted or win a free skatin' award huh? But people are getting killed because of your SO-CALLED REPORTING...why dont you write about the verteran that came home to no job,no wife,bad credit,foreclosure,community hates him and called him a clean up man for Bush,--not everybody in America is happy with us veterans, as much as you like to present the fantasy...there are peole that wont hire you specifically because you are a veteran,write about that

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Linda Day, St. Louis, Missouri — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 22:17:33 GMT

Thank you Maj. Clarkson for your service to our Country and your dedication to our Service personnel. As a country, we are lucky to have you and those amongst you in our military.

On that woman thing....thank you for proving that a woman is equally capable, logical, lethal, and non-hysterical in combat.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Matt, Irvine, CA — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 22:36:20 GMT

If A woman is captured the military cannot place higher emphasis on rescuing a female over a make hostage, but with the media coverage the way it goes and has if the military does not make rescuing the famale hostage a higher priority then the media would and has had coniptions. Thus, the attention a female hostage would get over a male hostage would be a huge gap. Look at why the prince of England is not being put in the front lines. He being who he is would make his unit a target. Same goes for a woman. The enemies we face know they cannot really win so they are always looking for ways to turn the media in their favor. Don't give the women to them I say. All in all I agree women are and should be on the front line if capable but then there is my exception above.
Signed
For god (pick your god), Country (USA and any country for Freedom for all) and women (keep them safe as without them us males would just beat each other up)

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

J.D. Knowles, Show Low, Arizona — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 23:09:23 GMT

I don't think that it is possible to appreciate the physical and psychological impact of being in the infantry, let alone the Rangers or Special Forces without directly experiencing it. Until you've carried a 100lbs ruck for 20 clicks up a mountain, experienced hallucinations from sleep deprivation, or have looked down on the body of your first kill, there is absolutely no way to know how you will respond. Having said this and even though it's been tried before, if the field were completely level (women required to pass every qualifier that men are)and a woman is able to make it - let her try. Only a quarter of my class graduated from Ranger school and I would guess that half of those could handle the operational tempo of a Ranger Battalion. If we need to open combat arms up to women so that this question can be answered once and for all; I say do it! It would be interesting to me to see how many women would actually step up to the plate.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Robert Mann, Tigard, Oregon — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 23:11:08 GMT

I applaud all women who serve in the military. Their various duties are a tremendous asset to all of us. I still do not want them in my foxhole, not because of them, but because of me. I was born and instilled with, a need to protect others who were perhaps not as strong or as quick as I, as part of the responsibilites of being a male. It's not a choice for me, it's just the way I was put together. As a former US Marine, I have first hand experience in the distraction of helpng those less able then I, and the cost of doing so.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Mike Arnold, MI — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 23:11:34 GMT

I agree with David B. You here how U.S. Soldiers dying every day, and you wonder if they are growing stronger. No, they just get good intel. It sucks that amid the high tensions right now, reporters aren't using good disgretion, just going after the almighty Pultzer.

And I salute the females in service. Im a man in service and I have seen women pick up weapons and fire just as effectively as any man. I feel that a women who want's to serve her country should be able to in any capacity and not be restricted from the "Front Lines" (Ha, front lines, funny concept these days!). I wish a politician could start working on that bill and stop being afraid of having that blood on their hand and their rating drop.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Ben, Arkansas — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 23:15:56 GMT

While I'm not military, I hope to be one day. Thanks for your service, whoever here has served. But I have to agree with some of the male veteran opinions - as a male, with a lot of male friends, we place girls and their welfare with us, especially girls we've come to know and respect, far above our own. Really, I think a lot of men are like that... consider this, in actual combat units that see hell, they're mainly men, correct? The military is male-dominated and most of those men probably have mothers, wives, girlfriends, sisters, daughters, etc. Most of those men would be interested in defending their women in case of danger. Wouldn't that translate to combat? Really, if you've been raised to believe that one doesn't hurt a woman, especially physically, and that women are something worth protecting, that's gonna mess with a man's mental state in combat. I know it would affect me differently, seeing a female cut down over a male. Combat is already incredibly stressful and intense; why add another variable causing problems for the core of any infantry force, the men? Not to mention, most healthy males are interested physically in women. If you bother to study WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, and the accounts of combat soldiers on a front line, their thoughts consist of food, shelter, and women. Especially, when under a huge amount of pressure, and having women in close physical proximity and needing a way to release stress... it's just not a good idea. Not to mention, if men and women are captured together, the woman runs risk of sexual abuse, and she is often used as a breaking tool for the men. When the 13 British Marines and sailors were captured by Iran, who did the Iranians use to break their captives? They threatened the woman, and naturally, her male comrades stepped to try and save her, at the expense of their honor and their nation.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Stephanie, Macomb, IL — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 23:19:55 GMT

Why does it always have to come down to who served better than whom? Isn’t this the United States of America? Didn’t we ALL go through boot camp and get crapped on equally? I know women who can kick all yall’s butt any time; any place, and if I ever get into a firefight, I want them on MY side! Thank God for these women professionals who are willing to take a huge cut in pay to serve their country? When push comes to shove, we need all the help we can get out there and you guys who want to complain are usually the loudest when you get hurt. How about shutting up and letting people do their jobs? Be glad you have the help you’re getting because in other countries, they go home messed up and stay that way.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Sonia Toronto, Canada — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 23:27:20 GMT

David,
I regret your feelings, and invite you to write your feelings for publication. Not in a Blog ... that's too easy. For people who have lived what you did, and can live to tell about it, there is no easy way.
I look forward to your book.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

tiredof fobbits, seattle, washington — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 23:30:37 GMT

i say there is a front line to an extent its called going outside the wire, fobbits will always have stories of rockets and mortars landing near their hooch i was in iraq and the MOS's do combat patrols are infantry MP's armored and engineers and eod women are allowed in the MP corp and when it came to an actual in your face battle or ied strike or nething evryone of them froze up plus a mans natural instinct is to help a woman so your combat effectiveess goes out the window not to mention that male and female soldiers will get emotionally involved complicating things even more im tired of hearing fobbit stories about mortars and their bullshift CABS and the whole 3 times hey went outside the wire for those of us who spent our deployment inhabiting buildings and sitting on op's doing the real combat mission everyday, you fobbits make us sick face it you are not anything but a support element and half of the MOS'S never leave the wire thats u cooks and gate guards an mechanics finance post office workers you joined the army to work a civilian job not fight so quit degrading what we do over there so you have a story

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Dave, Hartford, CT — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 23:41:11 GMT

Anonymous in Fort Benning has written the most balanced and thoughtful comment.

Women can and should be allowed to serve. Equally if physically possible. In support roles if not.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

luis torres — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 23:45:23 GMT

it brings back memories of nha-trang hospital in vietnam 1968 while i was taken cvare of wounds while serving with 173rd airborne brigade.keep up the good work ladie...

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

luis torres — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 23:48:03 GMT

there is no front line in any war,,,,,to all soldiers keep the good work...its part of bein american

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

luis torres — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 23:49:32 GMT

there is no front line in any war,,,,,to all soldiers keep the good work...its part of bein american

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Matthew, Warrrensburg, Missouri — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 23:51:34 GMT

Lets think about something for a minute. If Clarkson is a physical therapist than she should know full well that science proves that women are naturally different than men. This difference is weakness. Any medical examination of one male and one female would show that men have characteristics that are more suitable for war. Now if she wants to try for SF than let her. But let her try with the exact same standards as the men. Then we will see how fit she really is. The SF is for the best and that means alot of men cant handle it either, this isnt bad people. As far as Clarkson, she is an outstanding woman that is doing a great job and I support that. Lets just not get ahead of ourselves when it comes to women in certain roles.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Sean, Torrington CT — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 23:56:21 GMT

I love the troops but I hate their orders. We'll get all of you home as soon as possible. This police action will never end unless we simply exit the country.

Vietnam was a failure from the word go, Iraq was a failure as soon as they decided that the new government would just magic up some peace. Great plan guys...great plan.

I wonder if our brave no-bid contractors had built the new Iraqi infrastructure properly, if the Iraqi police could be a more effective force.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Sean, Torrington CT — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 00:00:58 GMT

David b, are you enlisted and fighting in Iraq? If not, shut up. Even if you are, how dare you try to censor the press! We aren't even at war...War was never declared. If the government was serious about this police action there would have been an official declaration of war and a draft. But there aren't. Face it, this war isn't as important as you think it is. Please, find your spine and quit quivering in fear of the thought of the turrsts blowing up your house or something.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

jake .p lewisburg , Pa — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 00:18:09 GMT

I for one don't like the idea of women on the front lines, just think if a few were captured. Hmm imagin a woman being decapitated on film and shown to the world or being raped . I belive women are on a higher standard then men because they can give life. imagin one that was pregnet but really dint know yet. can you imagin the american outrage if these types of things happend. I belive that every women deserves same pay as male counterparts in the american workforce but to see the bearers of life in combat on front lines i dont think i could handle.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

San Diego — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 00:24:58 GMT

Those in the American military are inherently less intelligent and uneducated. They clearly lack the mental capacity to deal with such a complex social situation as accepting that a woman might perhaps prove equal in ability to a man.
I don't mean this comment to be particularly malicious, but it is reality. Granted, such a broad generalization will have its exceptions, it is also historically undeniable that those in the military, particularly those in Iraq, like Vietnam, are the people that have little to contribute to society.
As a result, forcing them to accept equality amongst race, religion, ethnicity, sexual preference, and gender would only lead to more problems.

I believe women deserve equal treatment and I applaud their efforts to put themselves in such positions. However, it is the limited minds of the lower class that make up the military that suggest that mixing genders is a bad idea.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Keith Messinger — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 01:22:02 GMT

Let the men who have actually been in combat decide the question of women by their side. I for one, would say no and it has nothing to do with capabilites.

When are we going to realize you cannot be anything you want . . . I hear (not clearly) a radio commentator with a major speech impediment. I find kids that can't walk suing so they can play football and on and on. You take the hand you are dealt and play it - don't ask other people to sacrifice so you can get thru SF or SEAL.

No doubt Clarkson is doing a great job and I thank her for that but combat? If she knew what it was really like I don't think she be so quick to think she was missing something.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Virgil Hilts — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 01:42:00 GMT

I would say if women can pass the same physical fitness standards as men they are qualified. Right now there are 2 sets of standards in all services, one for men and one for women. I've yet to see a woman who can do more than 5 pullups, and they would need to do this and more to pass the USMC's PFT.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Michael in Boise, Idaho USA — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 01:52:43 GMT

"If liberty and equality, as is thought by some, are chiefly to be found in democracy, they will be best attained when all persons alike share in government to the utmost." -Aristotle

We need to continue to fight for democracy and equality at home.

Thank God Clarkson is willing to do this in spite of the opinions of those who don't deeply believe in democracy. There are too many cowards patronizing those they percieve as weak and needing protection.

A democracy cannot stand when it throws equality out the window when it comes to something as serious as war. Thank you for showing us a brave hero in spite of the situation. Sometimes you just have to sit in front of the bus.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

w. J. J. Beloit, WI — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 02:22:55 GMT

Women do not belong in the military, police, or fighting fires among other jobs. If it's inappropriate to do the job while wearing a dress, it's a man's job.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Jason FRIESEN, Vancouver — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 02:24:18 GMT

I don't think women can realistically have a role in military. Combat is inheriently a physical event and although it's likely a few women have the physical strength to meet some established minimums, very, very few women can do it as well as the average male soldier.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Gary, Seattle WA — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 02:35:37 GMT

Is San Diego serious? The military was one of the first institutions in America to be racially integrated and has long been seen as a staunch proponent of equal rights in regard to race and ethnicity.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Soldier, somewhere in the world — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 02:39:28 GMT

Wow, there San Diego. I find your comment to be not only malicious but way over the line. I was not going to post anything until I hit this very last comment. How dare you sit in front of your computer and say that "those in the American military are inherently less intelligent and uneducated."? Do you understand that those "less intelligent and uneducated" people put their lives on the line on a daily basis so you can sit and home and watch tv? I happen to be enlisted military (and a female) serving in an overseas location. I am highly intelligent and very well educated. I am surrounded by others who are intelligent and educated. Furthermore, the military prides themselves on providing for our education. Even serving overseas, the military makes sure that EVERY soldier has access to higher education and has every opportunity to better ourselves whenever the mission allows for it. Maybe you need to spend some time around some of the military folks you are so close to in San Diego, and get a real look at what the small percentage of people in this nation who do get off their lazy rears and stand up are all about. You are probably in that huge group of Americans who would never even dream of doing what we do. Find out who we are before you begin bashing us.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Biman, Los Angeles — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 02:43:27 GMT

Maj Clarkson makes me proud to call myself an American.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

George Nickolas, USN (ret.) Davenport, Iowa — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 02:44:46 GMT

Isreal during the 1970's learned that it was dangerous to male troops to have women in the front line. What was learned, according to Israel soldiers that men would take greater chances to protect their women counter-parts. That is when they decided that they should not be in front line positions.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Richard, Gillette, WY — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 03:05:01 GMT

Women have been on the front lines from the start of civilization. We in America simply refuse to see it or afraid to admit to it. US bombed German cities in WWII. Do not tell me there were no women in those cities. Germany bombed London and many other cities, there were women in them. Armies have attacked cities from the start and no army to my knowledge has ever let the women and children leave before the attack. History is filled with women fighting on the walls of cities, in the fields being attacked, villages being attack etc. Get real America, women will fight just as good as men, being 'Precious' has nothing to do with someone wanting to kill them because they have what the attacker wants.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Retired Army — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 03:32:53 GMT

San Diego is a moron and I would be happy to compare any measure of intellect he/she would like to evaluate. 1500 SAT/32 ACT before they dumbed it down, well before I'm sure he/she took them if at all. I would suggest that he/she remain celibate so as not to further dilute the gene pool with his/her asinine comments.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Nam Combat Veteran and yes-Intelligent. — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 03:38:03 GMT

Look up "IDIOT" in the dictionary and there will be Miss? "San Diego". Boy, talk about showing ignorance. Anyway, I got a kick out of the "was in a firefight flying over..".

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

(John Doe, Seattle, Wash.): — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 03:57:04 GMT

Why put American woman on the front line?
Brake a nail and cry about it. You selfish can never solve your problems instead you make more. GO ahead and put woman in the frontline. Your country will turn around and debate it forever and ever and where you people be then? America talks smack about everyone else in the world But look at yourselves. America dosent even have a stable government. People hate the governmeny. High Crime. High Death. What do the American Youth see? Hate and Despair? What shall America be in what say 20 to 50 years.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

John Doe, Seattle, Wash.): — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 04:07:44 GMT

hahaha that American Boy Sean from wherever.

The American Media is its own downfall. Media is what posions the Americans into thinking Bush your leader is sooo bad. Tsk. Media is what brought you Americans to be hated by most of us world. But yet you think media should be able to freely run in a society that knows little? Citizens turn to the Media for answers. What does the Media give? Their own edited version. A version that should get the most views and that will bring the most money in. How about Canada. Time to time I have seen and heard Americans trash talking Canada. To me Canada is in fact a better country. Less Death. Less Crime. All around better people. Canada is fighting American battles. I am not American or British or Canadian. I do not wake up in the morning and go to work or school. I dont have a family who will be there for better or for worse. America open your eyes. Why dont you realize what you have done. You have ensured your own downfall. The politicians should take away the rights of their own Media. America has too much freedom. And it reflects on the rest of the world

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Female Soldier Richmond, Virginia — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 04:25:45 GMT

I trained with Special Forces a couple of weeks ago on a live fire convoy excercise and between runs on the range found out that these hard chargers often work with women in combat situations. Granted, her mos isn't specifically combat, but she's sure as heck a target when haji starts taking pot shots. These women include mos's in the chemical corps, human resources and journalists. When the sh!t hits the fan, these women pull out a weapon and shoot back.

As to drawing lines, my unit had an Iraqi soldier blow himself up in the chow hall, killing several and wounding many. You don't even have to step outside of the wire to see death.

This is not our fathers war. Nor are we the women of a bygone era.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Anonymous — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 04:31:54 GMT

I think this woman has guts to be there and do her duty to our soldiers. She is doing her part without regard to her safety and giving a soothing hand to those who need it when their own mothers, wives and sisters are not there to provide it. As for women in combat, I have 3 daughters and I am not ready to see them placed in harm's way. It is their perogative to join and I will support them but I would pray for their continued safety every day. My family knew PFC Lori Piestewa's family and we've seen what her death had done to her family and community. Although they're proud of their daughter, all the attention they've received since her death, does not dismiss the fact that they would give anything to have her back in their loving arms.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Female Soldier Richmond, Virginia — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 04:34:20 GMT

To anon from San Diego,

You obviously have never been in the military. You, quite simply, have no idea what you are talking about. Until such time as you do, please do those of us that are protecting your constitutional rights a favor and keep your simple minded ideas to yourself.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Brian — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 04:51:30 GMT

"San Diego" is an obvious moron, and I'm guessing he hasn't served in the military, otherwise he wouldn't make such a ridiculous statement. The US military is composed of a cross-section of the entire society, of which he is, unfortunately, a part. Semper Fi!

As for women in a combat position, all physical weaknesses and emotional differences aside, its not acceptable to my male mind that a woman should be killed or, god forbid, captured. The enemy has no respect for women, and her depredations endured would be severe. Why put any woman in harms way? A male is, generally, a better choice to get the job done. That job is simply to close with and destroy the enemy, not to use the military as a social-engineering laboratory.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

J., Traverse City, MI — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 04:55:44 GMT

MJR Clarkson is doing a very necessary job in her present capacity; and she, like all our forces, should be appreciated for the sacrifices that are being made on a daily basis. But to profile her for the in-your-face purpose of making a political statement is NOT objective journalism. The subject of women in direct combat roles should be tabled in a forum of articles presented expressly for that purpose; to do other than that, e.g. hiding an agenda in what should be a positive article, denigrates soldiers like MJR Clarkson and relegates them to the background of the story. I would be ashamed to be the editor who allowed this story to be forwarded as is.

As for women in combative roles: ONE standard of fitness and performance, regardless of gender. Combat is non-discriminitory. Man or woman, if you can't do the job, you don't belong there.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Air Force Vet — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 05:16:38 GMT

Ah, let the men go get killed if they are so insistant on keeping the combat zone for men only...leaves more of the country for us. The thing is, both women and men have the same emotions, but the degree varies from person to person, even within the same gender. We all love. We all hate. We all nurture. We are all aggressive. Being aggressive is contrary to a woman's nature? Huh? What century are you living in and which decade was your psychology book written because you are SO out of touch with who and what we are now. We are TELLING you yet you refuse to listen, or hear only what you want to. We are here and we are NOT going away.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

TSgt, USAF — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 05:42:05 GMT

As a member of the military I am appalled at the statement made by San Diego. Perhaps you don't realize that all our officers and many enlisted have college degrees and are more educated than you. I in fact work with one with a degree from Harvard, certainly not from the "limited minds of the lower class that make up the military" that you describe.

I agree with some of the posters who said that being a medic flying over the fight is not nearly the same as being down in the fight. While I am completely competant to carry out my job as a medic I don't feel I would be able to carry out the job of a Ranger or similar MOS. That does not mean however that no woman can. For those who say that women are physically weaker I ask this, most asian men are physically smaller than caucasian or Black men. In fact many Asian men are the same physical size as caucasian or Black women. Does that mean they should not be allowed to serve either? If we are talking strictly physical size as a generality any group of people who average smaller or weaker should be excluded.

I hope you can see how generalities are not working, rather than focus on what the group in general is like, why don't we focus on the individuals and what they can do. Allow women to complete the training with the same standard as a man would have and we'll see how they do. Not every woman could do it, shoot not all men can do it. It's an individual ability not a group and to exclude all members of a group because some can't is insane.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

monnam — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 05:42:45 GMT

all emotions and no practical value! as women slowly take over the country's political and managerial functions, it's an excellent idea to fill as many combat missions with women as possible without exception. that would include eliminating all those other exceptions and previledges when not in combat.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Tierra F. San Antonio, TX — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 05:45:07 GMT

women being on combat lines yea right and Im a woman!!! my husband is in the army and in iraq right now in that same unit!!!!! In my opinion the only job women need is medics, personnel, and administarative. Men are physically able to do what women cannot, and on top of that what if one got captured does the world and AMERICA really wanna watch her ger raped and hung or worse on TV???? come on now common sense

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Disappointed American — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 05:45:39 GMT

San Diego, Funny how you mention where your from, but do not want to disclose you name although people are at war for you to have the right to that privacy.. as well as the right to say the malicious and historically untrue ideas that your mind created about "limited minds and lower class" people in the army. How do you think the computer your typing on got started.. the ARMY.. Wake up from your LIBERAL COMA and participate in society by being real and humble and accepting that you could not come close to enduring what soldiers endure; how they love life because they are giving a gift that any man or woman deserves... and that is Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness for all. ...I have met Engineers that have developed whole underground sewer systems and computer techs that develop software and mechanics that can repair any piece of equipment that is in front of them in the Army.. Can you say anymore than, "I can type this without spelling or grammatical errors." It is the loyalty of soldiers to soldiers and Americans and the preservation of our history that the Army delivers. Again, take a hard look at what you say about people that you obviously do not know..It is disappointing to see someone so "intellectual" as yourself, say that the military are less intelligent and uneducated because you read it in San Diego newspaper.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

name withheld, Dallas, TX — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 05:57:40 GMT

I do commend MAJ Clarkson and all of the others in Iraq. But the rest of this comment goes to 'San Diego'- what planet do you live on pal? Todays American military is MORE intelligent and BETTER educated than the military of 10 to 15 years ago! They have to be, to contend with the 'new' style of combat they are facing. I hear all the hype about Iraq being compared to Vietnam and how the military lost over there. Bad news, pal: the military didn't lose in Vietnam, the politicians lost by tying the hands of the military to keep them from doing their job. There are enlisted people with college degrees, getting shot at day in and day out-intelligent and educated men and women. You need to do some further studying and research and I can almost bet that you have never served in the military, right? Have you ever been in a knock-down drag-out firefight, with a nurse a matter of feet from you, giving her share of fire support with an M-16? A nurse just as scared and terrified as the rest of us. Talk to some nurses that served in Pleiku, Khe Sanh, Danang, in the Mekong Delta. Look at the names of the nurses on The Wall in Washington, that died while fighting alongside the everyday foot soldier.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Andrew Demma, Baghdad, Iraq — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 06:00:59 GMT

I see, San Diego. I'm assuming that you are, in fact, one of the educated and intelligent persons who DO contribute to society. I could be wrong. Regardless, for all of your intelligence, education, and contributions to society, you were unable to comprehend the main ideas of the comments preceding yours. Very few of the people leaving response comments denied that, "a woman might perhaps prove equal in ability to a man." Key words from that quote (your quote,incidently): woman, might, perhaps, prove, equal, and man. Might? Perhaps? Perhaps you might reread these comments and realize that most of the responders (including those who serve in the military) agree with your 'perhaps' and 'might'. The majority of people I have served with will and do agree that capable females do exist in the military; and we would gladly serve with these capable women in infantry, armor, or other combat arms roles. In my experience, the civilians I speak with tend towards the opposite pole. Lets look at your next weak statement: I believe women deserve equal treatment. Deserve? Deserve has very little to do with life. Even the most undereducated and untintelligent cog knows that. Either one person IS equal to the next, or they are NOT. By proclaiming your belief that women deserve equal treatment (WARNING: INCOMING ASSUMPTION), I suppose you also believe women ARE equal to men, specifically in those attributes that apply to the present subject of discussion. Come on, San Diego. You're smarter than that. Following your reasoning (women deserve equal treatment...), genders should always be mixed in every activity, occupation, organization, group, etc. Let's take your reasoning one step further: Every person is equal, in all aspects, to everyone else. This assumption is, of course, based on the belief that everyone deserves equal treatment (a belief to which you certainly subscribe, right?). Do you truly believe all categories of people are inherently equal in all possible aspects? That's not very intelligent, San Diego. That's not very 'educated' of you, either. I'm feel sorry for you, San Diego. Sometimes I wish, as you wish, that each of us was as capable as the next. I sometimes wish all people were completely equal in their attributes, qualities, abilities, motivations, and desires. Alas, it is simply not a reality.
Listen, kid. I (and most of my brethren) will agree upon certain points: Women exhist who are capable of executing the most demanding of combat arms tasks and duties. Should those women be given the opportunity to demonstrate their ability to perform? I think yes. Should the measurement of their ability ( for equality's sake, San Diego ) be held at the same standard as that of a male? I think yes. It really is not a complex social issue, accepting the possiblity that a woman might perhaps be equal to a man. Most of us have accepted that. And it is not a complex social issue, accepting that all people are inherently equal, in totality. Some women are capable. Hell, many women may be capable. But let us generalize (maliciously or not): Most aren't as capable as most men. It's that 'bell' curve, San Diego.
Check it out, San Diego. The demands of performing competently in the combat arms professions require a person to meet certain physical, emotional, and psychological requirements. Until both genders are held to the same standards of measurement of those categorical requirements, that deserved equal treatment you champion cannot possibly be realized. This is real: Females are measured on a separate physical barometer in all facets of life, both in and out of the military. Call that view limited, unintelligent, and undereducated, but call it reality.
And finally, this: I entered military service after obtaining two four-year degrees. I also worked as both a mental health provider and a provider of wealth management and financial advisory services over a span of 7 years before joining the service. In doing so, I do believe I contributed somewhat to the lives of (at least) a few of those around me in a positive manner. In those past 7 years, I had the pleasure of working with many dedicated, highly motivated, highly intelligent, kind, loving people. However, upon joining the service, I have met countless people who take these qualities to new levels, beyond comparison to those with whom I worked previous to my service. Never have I met more motivated, dedicated, sharp, selfless, courageous, loyal, and intelligent people. Make no mistake: There are people in the military whos aptitude for learning is not high ( I mean they are stupid, but I'm being diplomatic). But those most intelligent and productive people I have ever known are in the service. It's that dreaded bell curve again, San Diego. Again, I treasure my experience in civilian life. But the best and brightest I have met have been in the military. I can truly speak on the subject intelligently, passionately, AND objectively. Can you say the same? I'm sure you can. Re-read the comments, San Diego. Pay attention this time. Talk to more military personal to obtain a more accurate picture of their thoughts and feelings on the subject. Equality can be a good thing, San Diego. But 'deserve' is a word that, unfortunately, doesn't mean much. Equality is a mathematical property, not a reality. People are not always equal, and subsequently, cannot and should not be treated as being equal in every single, possible aspect. This is, of course, a generalization...but not a malicious one.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

john doe — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 06:20:49 GMT

As a veteran of the irqi war, i served from 2003 to 2004, it is not that women should not be in the front line. if that is what they aspire for, then equal opportunity for them. having said that, there would be a double standard put into place, as i would say that at least 95 percent of military women would not qualify for the position or endure the training for special forces or ranger or any combat unit. the idiot above who says that it is the lower class that make up the military, think again

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Derek M. Herbert, Moreno Valley, Ca. (former Navy Corpsman Hm2) — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 06:29:02 GMT

Sean:
You might want to understand the mechanics of the declaration of war. The fact that war has been declared by congress, does not (and I will say it again)does not constitute an automatic draft. We as you might recall have an "all volunteer fighting force". Only if it became vitally necessary, would a draft be issued. Now, you can thank Bill Clinton in his infinite wisdom (would be someone who couldn't hack the military and ran) for restructuring the way our military looks today. If you recall in Desert Storm, we had close to if not damn near 500,000 troops in theatre and we had the most versatile and mobile force ever during those times. In addition, we still had hundreds of thousands of military personnel here at home. Now, due to the Military Airlift Command (MAC), Strategic Air Command (SAC) and the Tactical Air Command (TAC) being totally downsized and desimated to one single unit, the Air Mobility Command, we are not the same although still very lethal. Lastly, for anyone to say that this war is not necessary, Saddam had met with terrorists many times and it has been documented by his own people in his regime. That man would have if given the time, monetarily funded an attack here on our soil. There is a reason why we have not been attacked in six years, cause we are taking it to them.
God bless the troops, our commander-in-chief and God bless America!!!

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Jay — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 06:32:55 GMT

God bless you, you are doing a wonderfull job.
I'm prior service myself (Navy).
If you need anything to help you do your job better,
email me and let me know, and I'll do what I can to
get it to you.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Dan — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 06:38:52 GMT

"Those in the American military are inherently less intelligent and uneducated." - San Diego, friday, August 31, 2007 8:24pm

I applaud the efforts of the Soldiers, whether male or female. They are fighting in a conflict, which Congress won't call a War, and thus are being constrained not only by the world's opinions and their own morals, but by the members of Congress who don't see fit to give full support.

It is true, the enemy doesn't care whether or not you are male or female. The policy of gender and combat roles in the military does in fact need to be fixed. However, the above quote and the comment that followed (along with its argument and reasoning) is out dated and the person who wrote that comment should be ashamed.

The modern American Military is filled with more college attending or college graduates then ever before. Furthermore, stating that members in the military have little to contribute to society, is cowardly. They are contributing, by shedding their blood. Granted, there will always be low lives of any organization, but to say that the members of our military are inept at accepting equality or any other moral stance is a blatant lie.

Yes, women deserve equal treatment, since I'm assuming that we are all human beings, but to say that our military is 'lower class' is, for lack of better words, retarded.

Get your head out of the past, look at the present, and then do something productive. Your 'reality' is outdated. I suggest you fix it.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Female Soldier, Baghdad Iraq — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 06:41:19 GMT

I am a female age 26 and have been in the military for 2 years. I am currently a driver for a Personal Security Detail that is constanty out and about in Iraq. The males i work with have NO PROBLEM with me as a driver so i see no reason for any of those at home to have a problem with me over here fighting in combat so that others can have their freedom. I know we are not the same, males and females, but i never want to be the same as a male. I just want to do my part for my country and wish others felt the same way. And to those of you that support the troops...God bless you all, it means the world to us over here!

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

near portland, or — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 06:46:34 GMT

San Diego, How insulting! Are you serious? Do you really consider yourself a member of the 'upper class' when you think this way? Perhaps you might be financially, but you are definately not mentally. "i don't mean to be particularly malicious, but it is reality." Please, I think the only thing that "is inherently less intelligent and uneducated" here is you.

Moving on....

NPR ran an interesting article earlier this month about women in combat. It wasn't as rosy as this one. THey had some interesting facts to share as well: More women than men have ptsd and have it more severely when they leave the military. Why? Because women cannot handle seeing trauma as well as men. Also, more women than men, in an actual combat situations, choke under pressure and can't fire their weapon, thereby putting their comrades in danger. Also, men get much more upset if a woman comes under attack and then they make less rational descisions. The urge to protect the weaker sex kicks in and they stop thinking about what they should be doing.

Add to this the fact that the military requires less physical fitness for women and you would just get a disaster.

I totally agree with anonymous in ft. benning, ga. If women can meet the EXACT same standards (without them being lowered to allow for women) as the men, then ok, it should be considered. But, as combat isn't just physical, but mental as well, and we aren't just talking about what the women want, but what's actually best for the group as a WHOLE, then other factors as listed above must be seriously weighed.

I was sorry to see this piece be such a one-sided feminist adgenda push. Very sad. I was also sorry to see how many people only see this as a feminist issue and not a reality issue. Meaning: it's one thing to scream for 'equality' it's another to actually take a step back, look at the FACTS and realize the system exists as it does for many good reasons, not just to offend feminists.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

R.S. Clinton,Ohio — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 06:52:35 GMT

Thoughts from a mom who has had two children go to Iraq. One a female one a male. I have seen first hand how each has come home Forever changed! Situations for each were very different before leaving and may have played a role in what they came back as. My son came home on leave and married his sweetheart,served his time and is now enrolled in college and working full time and enjoying the honeymoon. My daughter on the other hand has not fared up as well. Eight months prior to deployment she lost her sweetheart to cancer (my son-in-law was 30 days away from his 22nd. B-day) they knew each since kindergarden. If that were not enough to deal with she left her then 15 month old child for us to care for. Personally I do not believe that she was physically or emotionally able. While on one of her runs they were ambushed and she was injured. The female driver was UNABLE to get the vehicle to go into reverse to get back to the base they had left 20 min. prior. They could not go forward because there were semi's blocking their path. Then their 50 cal jammed(hope I said that correct, just a mom not a soldier). My daughter was hit in the neck and said that she began to pray(while she was still shooting with one hand that gave her flash burns on her face)that God would take them quickly, that none would suffer and that none would become prisoners. Now is a good enough time if any to let someone know that she had been injured,she thought. One of the young men that were in the gunner box seen all the blood and reacted, maybe I should say that again HE REACTED! He wasn't crying, he didn't freeze up but he jumped out of the vehicle pushed the crying female soldier over and started ramming the gears with all of that upper body strength that God gave to most males NOT females and low and behold he was able to get that vehicle turned around and get my child to safety! I thank God for that MALE SOLDIER, I believe with all of my heart that he saved all four of them that day. I do not believe if there had been four woman in that vehicle that they would have done as well. I mean no disrespect to any female in the world but lets be honest. If you were in a burning building on the 10th. floor and had to use the stairs trying to carry two small children to safety and your husband was still up there passed out from the smoke... What is the last thing that you would want to see? For me it would be a 120 lb. female fire fighter going to try and rescue my 250lb. husband! I think that I would hand her the kids and tell her that I would get this one myself at least I would have love(hope he didn't make me mad at him before the fire)and adrenalin working in my favor! How about the surgeon about to do surgery on you or a loved one, do you really want the one that was aloud to pass because they were given permission to score a percentage lower than the standards. Not me! When my children were younger I used to stack the deck in their favor to encourage them. I would have never sent them out to handle any situation without giving them every tool available and knowing that they were able to handle a situation within their mental and physical capabilities. Lowering standards for females verses their male counterparts,I feel, is not only putting them in danger but every person that is in the situation with them. I know,I know, you have heard about men freezing up or unable to cope and that you personally can or know of a female that you would want to cover your back. I know a few men that I can arm wrestle and take to the ground and I bet that they wouldn't make the grade to get into the service either but they probably could have if they would have tested them on the same scale as the females. We were not created the same! Maybe there are a few females who could pass on the same scale as the men, GREAT! How fair is it to these men though, if we distract them in anyway, meaning to... or not. My daughter is not the same and I have told her on several occasions that could she please let me see that very warm and loving person I once knew. When she left she was a very strong woman, had a good sence of humor, a very caring person and able to handle herself. Since she has been home she has no parenting skills, is confused, forgets everything, is very very angry,and can't seem to do anything unless it is spelled out for her. Our grandson quit talking a month after she left. He went to her room every night up to that point and banged on her door screaming and crying to the point of hysterics. His grandfather nor myself could comfort him. About an hour later he would just collapse on the floor from sheer exhaustion. After a few weeks of this there were no more tears,at all,not even when he was hurt. He kept everything inside and never said a word for eight months. He is almost five and is just now starting to come back to us. What are we creating? Is this Pandora's box really worth opening? As a wife, daughter, sister, aunt, grandmother and a very proud mom of two soldiers: if I knew then what I know now I would have done everything and anything to discouraged my daughter from ever joining the service.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Cliff Vander Ark, Phoenix, Arizona — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 06:59:35 GMT

Major Erica Clarkson is an honor to this country serving in the Middle East. She is particularly valuable in demonstrating the equality of women in a land that seems to keep women hidden and don't cherish their wonderful giftedness in most areas of life.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

R White — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 07:13:23 GMT

It was nice to see an article on women in the military. My daughter has been in the Marine Corps for about five yrs now, she re-enlisted last year and was just sent to Iraq last month. I have heard there are not many women over there so she gets lonely too..

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

M. Oshiki, Baghdad, Iraq — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 07:13:32 GMT

Just to alleviate any further speculation about my background, while I may be an O-5 and am now a physician, I spent the first seven of my over twenty years in the military as a cavalry officer, and spent the first of my five combat tours leading Soldiers at small-unit level in Operation Desert Storm. I am ranger and airborne qualified. I have also deployed to Afghanistan and Iraq with the 10th MTN, 82nd ABN, and 1st ID (in addition to this tour with a Stryker BCT). All of my assignments as a physician have been in infantry units at brigade level and below.

The bottom line is that the question is about STANDARDS - uniform standards regardless of gender, age, or whatever. A ruck is ruck whether carried by a man or a woman, or Soldier in their teens or 40's. Why do we have different standards for the APFT based on gender or age? America's enemies do not differentiate based on these things, and some day we as a society and an institution will hopefully mature to the point that we view individuals by their proven capabilities, and not by some other tag. It was not that long ago that many supposedly educated, experienced, and well-intentioned individuals argued that blacks should not be allowed to serve in combat roles because they were considered incapable of meeting the standards. Fortunately we've matured beyond that myopic view as a society. Hopefully this process of maturing will continue to break down artificial barriers that prevent the most qualified people from serving in the appropriate jobs.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

R White — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 07:19:37 GMT

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Toan, Baghdad, Iraq — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 07:43:18 GMT

To Jake: The military doesn't allow pregnant women into a combat zone.

To Anonymous, San Diego: Thank you for you lack of support for the military. We provide freedom and all you can do is insult us. Just so you know, there has never been a war with another country on the United States soil. The only war that had occured is the civil war. As for 9/11 that was only an attack. Don't bother knocking on Congress' door and try to support the military if terrorist blow up you house. Also why are you using the word "those" to refer to the military personnel? Are you implying everyone is "less intelligent and uneducated"? If so, I can say that you are ignorant civilian who is ungrateful for what the military does for its country. You should do some "homework" on the military. If you researched the facts before you run your mouth about your topic, then maybe you deserve to have the freedom of speech. I know for a fact to achieve the rank of a Brigadier General (1 star), you need more than a high school diploma. These people have degrees.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Daniel Sebold, Pusan, South Korea. — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 08:14:24 GMT

Wow! The equal opportunity to get your head blown off. What we need is a men's rights movement: a man has the right to his own body and to be raised in a culture that sees his body as inexpendable and as beautiful as a woman's. But that would involve getting rid of some homophobia. Neither the American military nor the American culture is ready for that.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Sailor, NH — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 08:48:13 GMT

San Diego, your ignorance of the military intelligence levels and our education levels inticate to me that you have no real information just opinion. I am enlisted and am in the process of completing my MBA. There are a lot of NCOs that hold at least an associates degree. We may have entered the military with a high school diploma or GED but a lot of us have taken advantage of expanding our minds, I would suggest you do the same.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

MSG Withheld Fort Bragg NC — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 08:49:17 GMT

Being Special Forces and also (Ranger) it makes no sense why LTC O would say something about combat when he has know idea what really goes on. Females do great things in the military but combat arms should not be a question there is not a place for them.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Watertown, NY — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 09:08:21 GMT

"San Diego," You seem to have forgetten where your freedoms and liberties come from. The people that you're slandering are the same people that enable you to enjoy your civil liberties.

What have you done for your country lately?

Should a female serve in an INF or SOF unit? No.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Christopher Whitfield, Norfolk VA — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 09:10:35 GMT

We, the military, have already established that women do have a place. The military utilized women in WWII for many things from making clothes, to tending wounded. The only problem that I have seen with putting a women in a combat unit is plain and simple physics. Women are, by human nature, naturally built for different things. This is natual selection of duties. The basic chemical makeup of a woman's anatomy makes them more emotional beings. Emotion has no place on the battle field. When you need mindless machines for killing without question, you bring testosterone. A woman has to work extremely hard to do fifty push-ups, whereas a man not so much. If women are going to be on equal terms with men as combatants in a brutal, mindless, killing environment, they should definatley have the same physical fitness standards as males. There's Equal Opportunity and then there's over-achievment. Women are no less of humans than are males. But the chemical and physical differences between the two should be adheared to as being guidlines from our maker (whoever, or whatever that be) as to natual born duties. Women are not built for it, plain and simple. But this woman is highly extraordinary, and should definatley be shown the respect of a war veteran, no questions asked!

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Annie, Sturgis, SD — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 09:12:15 GMT

My grandfather, who was involved in four major wars (WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Cold War) told me that his only regret was that there weren't enough male medics and nurses..........NO women should have been exposed to the horrors that existed, if at all possible (which it wasn't, obviously).
My personal thoughts are that women are/can be very capable of combat, but we don't need to go until all the men are dead.........

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

J. A. Morneau, MA — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 09:30:49 GMT

Dear San Diego,

The fact that you have not applied your name to your posting tells me that you are viscerally afraid of the inherently less intelligent and uneducated masses that populate your areas military bases. In this case, it is probably a wise thing that you followed your instincts.

Now, if you would please do us a favor and take the flagpole's truck (if you don’t know what I’m referring to please ask someone to provide you with instructions on implementing a Google search) out of your nether regions and descend to our level you might be able to see what we see.

What we see are a number of "highly educated" civilians telling those inherently less intelligent, uneducated masses what to do on a daily basis. Unfortunately, for more of those inherently less intelligent, uneducated masses than you care to recognize as worthy of recognition, those same “highly educated” civilians have been sitting so high up on their own trucks that they can’t hear the voices of those they have tasked with accomplishing the mission. These are the same voices of reason and experience that have been continuously written off as insignificant and full of groundless worry and fear. Personally, if Colin Powell and Gen. Schwarzkopf expressed concern to me, I would stop what I was doing and listen.

Perhaps before you denigrate an institution you should assume a mantel of responsibility and try to first comprehend its place in history and society. In your rush to maliciously impugn the character of this institution’s members you neglected your studies. If you had checked your history books you just might have discovered that those you have berated for their, “lack of mental capacity to deal with…complex social situations,” actually belong to an organization that has historically not only grasped but accepted the impact and consequences of many complex social issues long before their “educated” civilian counterparts.

If you don’t think they have and do, then please stop and take a moment to open that same history book and turn to any of the pictures depicting the battlefield after the war has moved on. Would you take a moment to contemplate the nature of the clothing worn by those left behind? The battlefield may not recognize the difference between military and civilian, but it is the ability to recognize a battlefield before it earns its title and not run from it that separates the military from the civilian.

Now, if you would indulge me for just a few more moments, please take some time to study the images within the book as the decades and eras they represent slip through your fingertips. Did you notice the complexions of those left behind? Are those left on Lexington Green in 1776 the same as those left on the beachhead at Ft. Wagner in 1863? How about Puerto Rico or the Philippines of 1898 and Vietnam in 1968?

I would also like to point out that you should not be congratulating civil society for its ability to accept equality amongst its citizens regardless of race, religion, ethnicity, sexual preference, or gender either. If civil society were truly capable of these actions there would be no need for the ACLU, NAACP, the Anti-Defamation League, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, LGBT groups, laws protecting people from sexual harassment, others denying a certain class of people the right to marry whomever they wish, or restricting the movement of individuals across borders.

If civil society were the standard bearer, wouldn’t there have been a female president of an interracial, co-ed institution of higher-education long before a female was promoted to general and given command of an interracial, mixed sex unit? Would there be a need for troops in Iraq if civil society could manage polite discourse? Would we have found our way to Vietnam? Might the Twin Towers still cast their daily shadow over New York City? Would there be a need for an active standing military force anywhere in the world? I guess the source of my confusion centers around this question, if the military is the option of last resort, what are the first, second, and third resorts doing? Aren’t they composed of civil society’s brightest minds?

If a lack of degreed training is used to summarily certify an individual as unintelligent, then the possession of a degreed education would be the equivalent of a certificate of intelligence. A word of caution, you may be hard pressed to prove either of these points if the examples of George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Bill Gates, and our current Administration were used to invalidate your argument.

Oddly enough, during my eight years in the military as an enlisted female it was not the knuckle-dragging dotards you make the enlisted man out to be that overtly demonstrated hostility towards women in the military, in any capacity. To the enlisted men I served with, I was for the most part just another soldier. Actually, in contradiction to your point of view it was only a small number of “educated” male officers who openly berated and harassed their female peers and subordinates alike simply because a woman’s place was not in the military. Looking back, I can now see the humor in it. They worked for four years to graduate from high school, and then spent another four or five earning their degree, but in the end they never took the time to become more than elementary school bullies.

It is with somber reflection, and a deep sense of respect for those that serve, regardless of their rank, background, or emotional IQ that I respectfully refute your disrespectful assertions. If there is one thing I have learned during the thirty-seven years I have crawled and walked upon this Earth it is this, intelligence, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. And, judging from your entry you are not worth a second glance.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Smoke, CP Casey, Korea — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 09:30:58 GMT

Anonymous at Ft Benning has made a great point in the difference between seeing action and actively seeking contact with the enemy. For those you have no clue what that means, then all the reporting in the world will never bring that explanation to you. As a current active-duty senior enlisted artilleryman in the Army, I can admit that although Fire Support is technically a combat MOS, we do NOT actively perfrom missions the infantry and other non-conventional units (read- SOCOM units) are actively engaged in day in, day out (in some cases, there are Arty units that have done and are doing so, another matter entirely). I can tell stories of missions I have participated in, women who have put some men to shame in those missions, but the key word is "participated", meaning the participant was made part of the operation due to a need at that time. They are not permanently assigned these duties. I also said women who have put SOME of these men to shame- it does not state that all the females I have ever worked with have been able to do it, and the men I am referring to were, well, figure it out from there.

I am sure MAJ Clarkson is a good PA and a superb Soldier- she is not the gold standard by which our infantry and traditional combat units are measured. The missions they fulfill takes months of training to even achieve a standard of excellence. Let's get off this GI Jane symposium here, and realize what the actual science that even MAJ Clarkson is fully aware. As for policy, I say make everyone eligible to fight for their country- then you will have the true right to truly say you had the guts to stand up and fight for your freedom. Now when them old guys and gals on the Hill decide to make it truly gender- equal, then so be it, and the Armed Forces will have no choice but to adapt, just as they did with desegregation. Til then, holla at your Congressman (or woman), then go and enlist for the mandatory 3 year enlistment that probably may need to be instituted, the way this GWOT is going.....

As for you, Mr "San Diego"- Shut the F*** UP. You havent a clue at all.....

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

sum 1, sumwhere — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 09:38:52 GMT

Let's see hmmm lower class. That kind of statement has no class. IMO you should not be considered a citizen until you serve at least 2 years in some branch of active duty service.

But as far as women and men... this is all out of control. I'm not crying that I can't birth a child. Even if a woman can attain the same physical conditioning it's just not an appropriate situation for them, at this time at least.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

PVT GEROW, BOSTON, MA — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 10:02:52 GMT

I'm all for women in combat roles as long as they pass the tests and complete the training. I just woke up and I'm still a bit tired but off the top of my head I can't think of other jobs women simply aren't allowed to do in our country. I'm sure there are some but I can't think of any, I mean they from being in dangerous jobs like SWAT to any level of government like president.

Another point I have is this "San Diego" punk is truly the definition of close-minded. This is to open the minds of some people who may agree with the above point of view. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to be accepted into a military academy?!?!?!? Have you ever heard of West Point?!?!? IT'S WIDELY REGARDED AS ONE OF THE BEST SCHOOLS IN THE WORLD! I'm sure you're rolling your eyes right now in that close-minded head of yours so stop and read this if you can handle another perspective. If you're smart, you will watch the Military Channel's three-part series on the rigors of West Point and you will see what I mean.
I come from a MIDDLE CLASS family. We all have cars, we have jobs, we all pay our taxes and graduated from school. My dad has a degree and is about to retire. My mom's a home health aid. I have a degree in criminal justice but I didn't like the job when I was interning at the local police department but still wanted a job where I can help people & have action so I joined the ARMY. One of my brothers has been in the AIR FORCE reserve for almost 10 years in intelligence with a classified job that he can't even tell us about. He also worked for Raytheon in his civilian career. My other brother is a MARINE doing his second tour in Iraq right now doing electrical work and I'm very proud of both of them because they used their brains to get to where they are today! I'm going in as a Combat Engineer in Oct. and scored an 85 on the ASVAB. The military as a whole can be summed up as some of the most HIGHLY TRAINED, HIGHLY MOTIVATED COLLECTION OF PEOPLE FROM EVERY STATE, CITY AND TOWN. EVERY RACE, COLOR AND ETHNICITY. EVERY RELIGION, FAITH AND BELIEF. AND JUST AS IMPORTANT BOTH GENDERS.
How dare you insult the Vietnam vets as well as the Iraq vets?!?!!?!?! Who are you to call the bravest people of our nation stupid??? Ask yourself this: "Would I voice my opinion to a service member's face, be them a WW2, Korean War, Vietnam vet or one in the military right now?"
YOU KNOW YOU WOULDN'T!
When I took the civil service exam I scored a 96. I would have gotten another 10 points if I was a woman...oh, and another 10 if I was Hispanic...and another 10 if I spoke spanish fluently. So that means, hypothetically, a Hispanic, bilingual woman who scored a 67 on the EXACT SAME EXAM would have got the job over me. Why? I'm obviously smarter and I'd bet my MVP track & field trophy I'm in better shape than her physically. Do I have anything against Hispanic women? OBVIOUSLY NOT BUT WHEN YOUR MOM CALLS 911 BECAUSE THERE'S A COUPLE OF ARMED THUGS BREAKING INTO HER HOUSE WHO DO YOU WANT TO BE THERE TO HELP HER? Same thing for the fire department and same thing for the military. Women are better at some things as a whole and so are men.
Throughout history there have been women who were EXTREMELY fierce. Just think of the Spartan women of so long ago to Asian women who knew very complex fighting styles to today's women who compete in mixed martial arts. I'm giving women their respect but THE STANDARDS MUST BE EQUAL BECAUSE IN THE REAL WORLD THE TASK IS THE SAME REGARDLESS OF GENDER, RIGHT?
I believe women should be able to do any job as long as they qualify. Why shouldn't they? I know I wouldn't have a problem with a female being my commanding officer because my mom told me what to do growing up and she did a great job with all 3 boys in my opinion. She's quite liberal and considered herself a hippy back in the day but she has always said how proud she is of us serving our country as well as challenging ourselves to the extent we do. I sincerely hope all who read this remember that every soldier, marine, sailor and airman hasn't fallen into the lowly military, WE ROSE TO MEET THE MILITARY'S HIGH STANDARDS!

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Cpl Dillon, Iraq — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 10:19:04 GMT

San Diego, are you serious? That statement was incredibly hypocritically ignorant, and I am shocked that the site approved something so offensive because it included a one sentence blurb about women.

I know several women who performed on a higher level than I during physical fitness tests, and while I would trust them to be able to perform physical tasks common to "REMF's", I don't feel that they would be able to handle a combat billet.

Physically, I don't see a problem occuring, and that is a point that I think many of the people agreeing with the underlying point of this article are missing. The military does not believe that all women are physically weaker than all men. It's not true.

What the military is still using is the mental part of combat survival: what the individual uses to get themselves through a situation so impregnated with stress. If you put a man and a woman under the incredible stress of combat on a day-to-day basis, with all the same conditions, they will both break. The difference is that, barring combat freeze-ups, most men will break aggressively, attacking the target of the stress, while women have a tendency to break passively, attempting to mentally block out the stress.

In non-combat duties, where ambush-reaction combat situations are more prevalent, there's not enough constant pressure to cause that much of a difference. Most servicemembers either freeze or fight, regardless of gender. But in a combat unit, the stress builds constantly, more people break from the stress, and the results are visible once the infantry units get home - PTSD.

Ever notice how male PTSD patients are more likely to react violently to stress than female PTSD patients?

The military already did.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

82nd Airborne Mom, Clearwater, FL — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 10:25:33 GMT

San Diego, it is a shame that you believe our soldiers to be inherently less intelligent. It shows a very deep lack of insight into the people and the job on your part. Perhaps we can excuse you by assuming you are uneducated and less intelligent. By dismissing the American military insuch a fashion you display the very same qualities.
But they fight and die to give idiots like you your right to free speech because they believe in the tenants of our country. I cannot imagine you standing in front of a soldier to protect them but a soldier would stand in front of you. America is not at war - America is at the mall.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Matt Hepple Christchurch — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 11:49:37 GMT

You can hear it from "the horses mouth", Special Forces are for those special people (Men & Women)and thats it simply.

Time for everyone to unite and say thank you!

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Terry, Texarkana, TX — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 11:53:04 GMT

Oh Please!!! Women in combat roles only makes our military weaker. IF we do this kind of ignorant crab, then we deserve to have our butts handed to us.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

John Doe, Iraq — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 11:55:32 GMT

Iraq. There are no front lines. The term is as outdated as the mindsets of most Americans. There are lines. Circles of security around FOB's, CAMP's, and COP's and outside that circle there is a war. Often attacks penetrate that circle, and a mortar doesn't care if it lands on a man or woman, a male or a female. To travel anywhere you have to drive through that war, or fly over it. In either case one could find themselves in a fight. Bullets show little sexual discrimination. Women are very much on the front lines of this war. A war with no trenches and few "safe zones."
Females are not allowed in combat roles for multiple reasons, each one when weighed with the others, adds up to a logical explaination. Female basic instincts are to care for loved ones, in a firefight one has to engage the enemy first, care for wounded second. The male basic instinct is to protect females, if he does that in a fight, he is not engaging the enemy. Then you have the issue of remote locations, high stress, long periods of down time and males and females in close proximity. Now you can pretend that fine upstanding soldiers, hardened killing machines that they are, can set aside sexual needs for 15 months at a time, but while you are pretending, the amount of distraction and conflict that arises could take a unit out of the fight.
Indeed in some cases it may seem unfair, downright uncivilized, but war is uncivilized.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Jimmy Chiu, Providence, RI — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 11:58:54 GMT

This should not have happened to begin with. Human killing human...

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Cliff Auburndale Fla. — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 12:03:09 GMT

What a joke women should be at home barefoot. And men who are less capable should be in the rear with the gear.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Susan C, Ft Stewart, GA — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 13:07:51 GMT

I feel a woman shoul be allowed to be in combat if she chooses to do so. We are in a day and age where so many women are the breadwinners and single moms because some men choose to "want to be without responsibility" Women have had to step up to the plate and swing for everything. I wonder why some men have their heads in the sand about this. Most women are very capable of handling anything that is tossed at them and come out on top. Again, if they want to be on the front then let them. In Iraq, the female soldier still has to carry a gun and wear flac equipment just like the male counterparts. She had to use the weapon if she is under attack in her unit. NO DIFFERENT FROM A MAN in combat. Let us make our decisions to be on the front. We can be stronger than one realizes.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

ED, Albion, NY — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 13:13:50 GMT

No...most women can't be placed in real combat like a lot of men that are not physically or mentally capable of dealing with it...wash out rates of men in elite or special units are well known. Real combat experience is not achieved even in the best training. Ask men that have experienced combat in places like Guadalcanal , Okinawa, Normandy ,Khe Sahn , Hue City, or Fallujah etc. if they would want average women or men with them . If you have not experienced real combat for extended periods then you haven't got a clue as to what is required of anyone in those situations...If a woman can pass all the recquired physical tests of any of the services then I say OK.....but don't change it for them because all you have accomplished is killing a lot of people that would not have died with the higher physical goals.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Mike, Frederick, Md — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 13:20:23 GMT

I'd like to talk about the reality of combat. I,m not a soldier and havent served in the military. That being said, we all know in combat situations close combat is a reality. Anyone can fire a weapon when trained but physical capability is limited to the individuals genetics. Some men dont even make the cut for reasons of discipline and strength. If I was in the military I'd be more confident in combat knowing EVERYONE around me could, if neccessary, carry me to safety quickly enough so that we both arent sitting ducks when wounded or carry their own weight in a close quarters combat situation with equal numbers. Somehow this arguement comes across as ignorant but our society as equal as we try to be is evident that there are limits to equality. If women were allowed to try out for professional football how many do you think would be superstars. Possibly 1 or 2 may make a team doing something like kicking or punting but seriously none would be able to handle the sheer dominance of a trained male athlete on the field. Same goes for combat. Or soldiers on the front line, or in any hostile territory should be our strongest AND best trained. I admire the women who want to be there and fight for our country and I beleive there is a place in our military for these brave women but lets keep our "team" not just competetive but the best. Just being realistic.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Jane Doe — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 13:30:10 GMT

The Way to end the war.............send ALL females with PMS or Menopause..........We WOULD get it done!!

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

K Turner, Utah — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 13:35:28 GMT

San Diego, after you have called the military less intelligent and uneducated. it didnit surprise me of your intent to remain unidentifed in your post. If you really looked into it; and knew your facts, a statement such as yours would not have been made. 75% of our military, have or are working on associates, bachelors and masters degrees. YES I AM IN THE MILITARY as is my husband and son; whom are both serving in Iraq as I write. Officers come in with degrees, enlisted strive to work hard in accomplishing degrees while on active duty and serving over 12 hour days, while you sit on your pompous rear end. Your malicious comment, seems to stem from soom other deep rooted internal frustration, how dare you call our military illiterate. Though you chose not to use those exact words, you did without blatantly saying so. It isnt the individuals in the military whom are serving for your right to write such an uneducated comment;who wouldnt place a female on the "front line" of an all and all out right battle; but the institution itself. If you are going to make such comments you should make an EDUCATED statement, not an ignorant one. Our military are not a lower class, I sincerely feel we are definately a higher class than yourself, and we dont hide on a blogger when we write. How many times have you put yourself in the line of duty? Did you serve with the men and women of the military service and so you feel you can make such a statement? You should really feel ashamed of yourself, I suggest you become an educated individual prior to throwing out such judgments about our military men and women. The article was a good write, there were things that should have been ommitted, such as how many places we have over there. The insurgents know without our needing to verify it; where we are over in Iraq. I know that for a fact. I have been serving for almost 20 yrs, my husband for 27 and now our son for 3. Our daughter is joining once she graduates. Let me feed this to you, she was offered an appointment at the USAF Academy and decided to go enlisted so she could serve her country sooner. Its UNEDUCATED AND IGNORANT people like you who frustrate us the most, not the separations during deployment nor the 12-18 hour shifts; attack the government if you want, leave our military personnel whom are serving for a reason out of it, you spineless mooch! Yes, mooch for sitting on your butt and mooching off our hard work and then call us second class ignorants.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Edward English — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 13:40:01 GMT

A woman can be anything of her choosing,Brain surgeon,Lawyer,any Scientist,or Engineers...How ever the occupation of warrior carries a tradition.Its been up to the men to fight the wars.Susan B. Anthony's inspirational efforts changed he mind set of American Waomen... However befor her days - women that found occupation that traditionally men would do.They were graced by what their Father's passed down to them.So ,if a society knew of that then it was acceptible... Maj. Erica Clarkson Is brave,but combat is'nt a career, just a tradition.Also women are treated abusively by captors...Just let your Fathers and men be the way of their choosing and way they are...Its a no Brainer... you see, see...

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Ignorance ISNT Bliss — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 13:40:48 GMT

your all f-ing rediculous.. first, that story was propaganda... second, this war hasnt brought our together to enjoy and secure freedom.... its driven us apart; maade us fight and bicker over the stupidest things... is that any different then how we were before this terrorist crap? terrorist's have been blowing things up wayyyyy before 9/11.. i mean, u were sitting in your house eating cornflakes, feeling safe, while the rest of the world was being blown up by the jihad-ists, and yet, the people of the US didnt start freakin-out and worrying about terrorism until after our cornflakes were blow off the table. everyone asked the question, and now its sad but safe to say, this is what happens when the hippies grow old and begin run the country.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Mike, Frederick, Md — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 13:43:44 GMT

The post from San Diego on Friday was Written by a priveledged and protected non member of society. So many of our leaders and CEO execs. are vietnam vets. Anyone who says the lower class has little to contribute to society isnt educated on how civilization works. The lower class consists of some the hardest working Americans and serve as the support the upper and middle class NEED to succeed. A simple thank you would be sufficient, not insults. This is coming from an upper middleclass son of a Vietnam vet and CEO of a large corporation. Thanks dad for being a lower class soldier with little to contribute to society we'd be lost without men like you and women like Erika Clarkson.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

B.V.U.-Poplar Bluff, Mo. — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 13:56:00 GMT

It is amazing that we all tend to take sides on this issue and others. The reality is not who should or who should not be in a war situation; the reality is that while we are in the war situation, WE do our jobs well and serve OUR Country as ONE military. Every one has his or her part to do, so do it. We need each other to survive. For the soilders who have been wounded, you should be glad she is there and can help you get back to health so you can go home in one piece. (Erica, my hats off to you)

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

lucy — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 14:06:21 GMT

I do not see what the big deal is about addressing women in the military. There are things that men do better as well as there are things that women do better. The whole point of having special positions is to ensure that each person lives up to their potential. I am proud and honored to live in a country that allows women to try and rewards those who succeed. GOOD JOB AND COME HOME SAFELY

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Natalie, Pittsburgh, PA — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 14:11:43 GMT

I agree with those of you who think the physical standards should be equal. Obviously, there are differences between men and women, but just as there are some men who are just as ladylike as a woman, there are some women who can hold their own with any of the guys. Any PERSON who can meet the physical standards and complete the training necessary to do whatever job they want - should be able to hold that position.
As far as men and women "hooking up", if a person needs or wants sexual gratification, they are going to find it somewhere. It is possible for men and women to work together without having sex; it is also possible for men and women to work together, have sex and still do their duty when duty calls.

Thank you to all who have served our country.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Retired, San Diego CA — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 14:15:51 GMT

what about all woman platoons. For those who preach equality, get a grip. The standards are different across the services but we continue to see stories and requests to embed women and reporters in combat roles. Even Bruce Willis tried to get on the bandwaggon. Wonder how many embedded reporters would have been in that entourage and the ammo and hardware to possibly provide a little more protection at the expense of others. Go back and look at evaluations. First woman to embark a ship, First woman to fly a combat aircraft. The list goes on and on. The services will only put the most capable in a position that exposes these actions to public scrutiny. There are way too many emotional and physcial barriers to living and fighting together as one unit. Parents write their congressmen when their only son enters combat. Who will keep the family name? Women command even greater respect for having the capacity for child birth. But let them fight as one just like the men do. Start crunching the numbers when we here of XX number of GIs KIA, captured, decapitated, burned, and raped. And for those of you who only think it's about Iraq, get a grip. Conflict, war, confrontation. With weapons, anywhere, it's all the same.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Ryan F — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 14:18:29 GMT

Being in the Air Force myself, I deal every day with an unfortunately large number of out of shape and overweight people, the product of lacking physical fitness standards. Combat is a strenuous environment, not just mentally, but physically too. Combat specialists wear, at times, almost 100 lbs of gear. A former marine replied to this article already, an I agree with him, mandatory minimum gender universal, physical standards for combat specialists. I'm not saying that women should not be combat specialists, but on average, a female will physically struggle more with a 80 lb pack than a male will. I'm not trying to discriminate against anyone, but if a person, regardless of gender, cannot carry the gear they shouldn not be in a position where they would need it.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Matt- Captain, US Army — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 14:23:54 GMT

(Disclaimer: The following opinion is the personal opinion of the author and does not represent the views of the U.S. Army or Government)

Hey "San Diego",
Your broad generalization has a lot of exceptions. You claim that members of the American military serving in Iraq are "...less intelligent and uneducated," so that we are incapable of understanding the need for social cohesion and forced integration of the sexes in combat. This is not some social experiment like school bussing or Title IX college sports- the stakes are deadly here.
If you need education credentials I am a college graduate from a prestigious college (which will be un-named so as not to be affiliated with my personal opinions)and an officer currently serving on the ground in Baghdad in a combat arms unit. I majored in the Russian and Arabic languages and have a B.S. in nuclear engineering, so I qualify as plenty intelligent to understand the complexity of this issue, and unlike you I have seen the capability of women in combat. There is no doubt that women are engaged in very dangerous combat operations throughout Iraq and Afghanistan where often they are exposed to the same dangers as their male counterparts. In essence women have earned their place in combat. However, there is a big difference combat arms and combat support roles- which is the issue at stake here. Women can serve in combat support roles as truck drivers, pilots, medics, engineers, police, and many other capacities. There is also a difference between Maj. Clarkson's combat experience, as listed above, and that of the frontline infantry, armor, engineer, or artillery soldier who at any time may be patrolling those dangerous streets on a daily basis and dealing with the harsh and gut-wrenching realities of war. I refer you to the comments by anonymous in Fort Benning above. He has spoken the most sense on this issue and has the credentials to back it up. You can tell that he's legit if you are a combat veteran.
Also, the majority of MALE soldiers don't have a clue as to the realities of real combat. Most soldiers in toto (that's Latin for "in total")are combat support and service support soldiers who spend most of their time on the base- and away from combat. Even those of us who regularly perform missions outside the wire on a daily basis rarely are engaged by the enemy in true combat.
To say that Maj Clarkson's aerial view of a firefight below, and a rocket that landed on the same base as her trailer, somehow qualify her for a combat arms position is ridiculous. Those of us in the army know that there are double standards for women's physical fitness scores- as there should be. Women's bodies are composed differently than men's bodies. They have varying levels of muscle mass, body fat, and bone structure. Physical fitness for men and women is a different ideal. Although, there are some women out there who are stronger and faster than some men. That is definitely an exception to the rule, especially in the military, as opposed to the public at large. Physical strength and endurance are still not the only qualifying factors for combat suitability. Most men do not measure up to the physical rigors of combat arms leadership.
For someone such as yourself who advocates the open integration of women in combat arms roles to see what such a prospect would look like, look no further than professional boxing. How many women can fight toe to toe with their male professional counterparts when the double standards are taken away and their opponents make no exceptions and pull no punches? How about ultimate fighting? Would you be willing to watch a woman beaten mercilessly before your eyes by an unrelenting male adversary? I wouldn't, and neither would most people. There is definitely a psychological element to what people would be willing to accept; and as terrible and gruesome as it is, it's easier to accept men being killed than women. I've personally seen both happen. The current policy on women in combat may seem unfair, but warfare is not about a level playing field- it's about winning (and not getting killed) while within the confines of the law of armed conflict.
The fighting part of the military is a male-dominated profession. Even if it were completely available to women, it would still be a male-dominated profession naturally by choice alone. For a woman to earn enough respect from male soldiers in combat is far mor difficult than for a female teacher at an all-male private high school to command the attention of her students. I went to such a school and if the results are any similar then this is a taller order than most of you advocates realize. There were plenty of well-educated and intelligent young men that still acted with less discipline toward female teachers than male teachers. I could imagine the same result toward a female platoon leader or commander. It's an unacceptable risk. I'm not saying that it is acceptable or right, but it is the way things are. It's certainly not fair, but it's the truth and it has nothing to do with soldiers' education or intelligence. Unfortunately, it's just human nature.
As I said, women are engaged in dangerous missions daily, and some are killed and wounded in the process. However, as a truck driver, a paramedic,an engineer, or a military police officer the demands are different from the infantryman kicking in doors and shooting bad guys. Also, the ability to motivate soldiers to do the same while operating in a disciplined, physically and emotionally challenging environment is tough enough for men who can relate to their soldiers without the gender barrier. Special Operations like Special Forces and Rangers are even less suitable for women. I don't know many women who can wear 100 lbs. of gear and body armor and ruck march for 30 miles at the same pace as male green berets, but let me know if you find one.
The issue is not about women in combat. They have already been in combat, and continue to do so with great result. The issue is their role in combat and being able to lead what will always be predominately male units to do some very rough things.
Also, as for your statement that members of the military wouldn't contribute much to society- I would like to know what is so damn special that you are contributing to society, that is more worthy than what I am doing to help keep these people from killing each other. What's your contribution in San Diego? You call us in the military "lower class!?" I grew up in Orange County, CA. (that's just north of San Diego) with a household income of $300k a year- where I had any number of possibilities to "make a contribution," as you put it. Instead, I decided to risk my life for others' freedom- including Iraqis'.
I greatly respect the role of women in combat abd the sacrifices that they are making here. They have many opportunities to serve in combat and lead soldiers, but the most combat-intense branches cannot accept the risk of your proposed social experiment- it's not realistic. If you think it is realistic, then I invite you to enlist in the army and to deploy to Iraq as an infantryman, tanker, or artilleryman, and see if your opinion changes. That would be a real experiment for those of you in San Diego who think you have a clue about reality over here.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Gi Joe, Gulf War Era — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 14:28:23 GMT

I applaud Maj. Clarkson for her service. But truth is that being a veteran of the armed forces, women distract men! yes..it is true, that men only think of sex when they see another female..Yes, it is feeble, but its clearly a lonely factor that most combat men suffer from, being a civilian now, i can tell you this, Men and Women play different games in the armed forces roles. Women know that using sex as bait, can force the decisions of their male supervisors. And even higher ranking women like the major, married or not, can have sexual urges with lesser ranking males or female troops.

The bottom line is, that Woman "Distract" men in combat situations, a male troop may risk his life and units position to save that of a female he has a special attraction for, not saying he wouldn't do that for his buddy either, but at a lesser risk factor, because we who have seen combat love our brethren, but know each day may be our last...a far different story had there been a sexual connection...

You may disagree, but the truth is Men are Dogs..and Women have Menstrual Cycles signaling a natural urge in our primitive design.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

John Doe, Allover America — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 14:37:25 GMT

Very simple issue in my openion. women should be allowed into the service, they do offer alot for out armed survice. With that being said i do not feel that a woman should be in the front line unless she is capable of proving she is as physicaly capable as a man.
To often people are hurt by the notion of inequality with the sexes. If you honestly belive that Men and Women are equal, you are poorly educated. No one gender is greater then the other, but they are not equal. Woman have more dexterity, and stamina; Men have physical size and strength.
I would not at all feel comfortable in a fox hole with a woman at my side. I'm about 200 lbs, without gear or weapon, if i were injured do you belive a 140 lb woman, also in several lb's of gear could carry me off? I am complete confident in a womans ability to act under pressure, but as a man i would worry for her safty instead of worring about the issue at hand.
If a woman were to smart off to a man in a bar, and they went outside and he beat the snot out of her, what would you say? "what a bad guy, he beats up women" If you agree with that statement then you too do not belive the sexes are equal. There are undeniable differances in the two sexes and preaching equality is just ignorance.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Michael, North Carolina — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 14:38:08 GMT

To the writer who thinks that those serving in the military are less inteligent and have little to give to society, perhaps you should look around you when you leave your'e house. for exemple did you realize that a large prtion of the airline industry is prior military (those uneducated airline pilots) and how about the police, customs etc. You can sleep safe at night due to all those uneducated military people past and present. I for one, a 23 year veteran of the marine corps,and air force reserve,
I hope you get on one of my flights.
I fly a DC-10 (362 seat plane) luckily you don't have to have any intelligence to do htat job. have a safe and happy trip on you're next vacation.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

C Boyer Wisconsin — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 14:41:09 GMT

Bravo to all these excellent Blogs! Anonymus Ft Benning person: Yours was really the best that I have read, but you should have taken credit by listing your name.. As SF, you aren't being very brave..to delete that...I am female, former USAF, Viet Nam Era vet

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Justin, Virginia — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 14:56:46 GMT

I agree to a point with Anonymous from Fort Benning. However, he assumes without basis that women cannot handle the "sheer terror, gut wrenching and face paced decisions, unending self-sacrifice, deep commitment to the welfare of your comrades over that of yourself, and grueling training followed by even more grueling situations" of combat. Because women have never been afforded the opportunity to demonstrate their ability to deal with the rigors of combat, concluding either way is conjecture, not fact.

I think that women who think they can keep up and succeed in infantry should absolutely be given the chance to prove it. That doesn't mean every woman who wants in is let in; rather, it curtails the policy that may be excluding a capable soldier on an arbitrary basis.

The women who can meet physical training and strength standards and complete the mission essential tasks an infantry soldier is expected to perform should earn more than, as Anonymous wrote, "a measure of respect and trust." They should be afforded the honor of serving their country in combat.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

landon kelsey, Houston, Texas — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 15:01:47 GMT

why don't we bring the bureaucrats home?

Out of 1000 troops there are probably effectively 30 riflemen!

I guess making the commanders feel like big shots by having a bureaucratic structure is important, but we have spent enough money on that disaster already!

Send in 100 truly bad axx commandos with plenty experience and a free reign and the rats will go flying! Having powder puff people to stand before fighting men and be a "leader" is a total waste of time and my money!

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

bob house boise idaho — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 15:05:19 GMT

It seem to me it is a none issue. There shouldn't be any fighting for a women to get into.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Mark — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 15:09:14 GMT

Why don't we see the augument first for the same PT standards! Why don't we see the female military leadership scream about being tested the same as males? It will never happen! Where is the news media reporting that urges the military to have the same standards for both males and females! Same physical standards for all first, before we even begin the discussion! Where is the media when a unit conducts a BDE run and 35% of the females assigned can't finish...if 35% of the males fell out somebody would be in hot water...females want to be able to attend Ranger and SF...get the regs changed so that you have the same PT/HW standards as males...the argument is mute until your tested the same as males!

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

t. murphy Georgia — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 15:10:00 GMT

All I have to say is that although, yes, there are those women that are in the military that should not be, there are more like this one that should be there. If a woman is capable, mentally, physically, and job wise, then let her in. All those like the above Vietnam Vet, respectfully, move out of the way. It is not just a man's military anymore. Although I completely respect ANY Service man or woman, those that are ignorant to what someone can or can not do and makes negative comments about them needs to rethink speaking at all. Good for you Maj. Clarkson and God be with you and all that are over seas. Man and WOMAN alike

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

H. W. Brooklyn, NY — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 15:14:09 GMT

It is common to confuse identity with equality in America. A giant and a dwarf, for example, have equal rights under the law, but they have different life experiences. Men and women have different life experiences. In popular culture women almost always win over men in mortal combat. In reality, some women can beat some men, but it isn't the rule.

In wars of national liberation all citizens become soldiers. In the kind of army we have fighting the wars we have today, there is no need to press women into the dirtiest and most dangerous combat assignments on a routine basis.

Finally, from the male view, men know that they might have to fight other men. Do we really want a society in which women are militarized and overly hostile and aggressive too?

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Joyce Doe — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 15:19:32 GMT

I will be brief but to the point,women were not created to kill,but to nurture and give life,not to take it away! I know women can perform many physical tasks,but please,don't put undo pressure on us women to somehow,be equal to men.We are not! Portland,Oregon...female,wife,mother,grandmother,sister,co-worker in the medical field,student,and content to stay in my role as caregiver.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Virginia Beach Sailor — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 15:24:12 GMT

Such tired arguments. It's no longer about the capabilities of women. And I am not sure it ever really was. It is simply a matter of what happens to men and women when you place them in close proximity for extended periods. It's happening every day aboard US Navy ships and IT IS detrimental to good order and discipline. You may not like it and it may not be fair, but it's the truth.

Solve that problem and you open the door.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Seattle — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 15:30:13 GMT

To: "San Diego"... Huh???? Your post makes no-o-o-o sense at all. You clearly have a very skewed and warped sense of the world and are VERY IGNORANT in the topic you chose to post on. Do you realize that ALL officers have a minimum of a BS/BA? Most have MA/MS, many have PhDs, MDs, ODs, PharmD, ect. Many of the enlisted folks complete bachelor and masters programs while still enlisted. I worked as a civilian on an Air Force Base overseas (I have my MS and am currently working on my PhD); one of the MDs I worked with was a PhD nuclear sciencetist and decided he would rather be a doctor instead~ extremely intelligent officer. I worked with a high ranking enlisted NCO; he was close to retirement, at age 38, and was finishing up his PhD. Anyway, my point is, you need to do some research and soul searching~ Do you really believe what you wrote? Or were you just "running-your-mouth"? Words are powerful and allow us to see into the minds of fellow humans... I am not impressed by what you have shown in your mind. I am very sad for you. Re-read what you wrote... think about it... research it... and re-evaluate. Good Luck... you are going to need it.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

JD Hill, Madison, Wisconsin — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 15:40:50 GMT

I was in an aviation unit when the unit became co-ed and had our first combat pilot. As more were admitted certain things on difference became obvious.

It may be true that some women are more physically capable then some men. It is true that women are physically different in size and usually strength. It is true that women suffer from physical ailments related to long times in the field without proper sanitary conditions due to their physical makeup. It is true that many men see women as not capabable. It is true that many men feel obligated, whether this be natural to male thinking or learned, to protecting women in danger. It is true that women are usually more emotional than men and may not be able to take the shot that conflicts with personal ideals.

Based on the above I could see women in a Combat/Ranger/SF unit if they were able to pass the physical training tests at the SAME standards for men. No more double standards. This is only one of the determinations on entering a combat unit. After entrance into the Combat/Ranger/SF training they would have to complete Combat/Ranger/SF training at the SAME standards for men. Then the women would only be able to be on short missions due to physical ailments relating to unclean conditions. I believe the data on women is that these ailments occur between 12-20 days in the field and is why women are required to shower more frequently in the field. The woman would then have to be placed in a two-woman battle-buddy team to reduce the effects of male protectivness or at least until this protectiveness is determined null. They would also have to do further testing on emotional effects of making the kill shot.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Matt, Seattle — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 15:55:32 GMT

From my experience, putting women in combat units is a bad idea. It has a negative effect on discipline and unit cohesion. Guys just behave differently when women are around. Anyone who's served in Iraq cannot deny that units with women have more problems than units without.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Jane Doe, Anywhere but Here — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 15:55:32 GMT

Kudos to this woman, but this is just a propaganda piece written so they can draft women into their BS war for oil. Yeah--now all people, regardless of sex, race, etc. can die for the potbellied old men in DC. Progress will be made when those with a vested interest in society--women--are making the policies and keeping both men and women out of combat unless absolutely necessary.

Also, to those who are so saddened by the idea of violence against women in Iraq--chew on this: 95% of combat victims are women and children. They'd be better off if they had guns and *were* in combat. The real problem is the misuse of force and warfare to achieve the whims of disconnected politicians.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

S. Hayes, Jax., Fl. — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 16:05:44 GMT

True combat situations call for physical, and mental strengths that women generally don't possess; like dragging or carring wounded or dead. Lets not even talk about hand-to-hand combat, a woman's upper hand would be pure luck! I was in the Marines, and I can assure you all the female Marines I saw would not (minus their weapon) pose any physical threat. Thats just the way it is. Unless its just a facial hair growing freak of nature female that can meet or exceed all the physical requirements, then they are just taking up space, and rank that a more highly qualified male soldier could be filling or receiving. The only reason people try to talk up their acheivments is to plea this case. The facts still remains, females are not designed for combat. I can swim, and may even survive at sea for a few days in the water, but it still does'nt make me a fish!!!!!

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Miss Doe, NH — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 16:16:12 GMT

Myself I think it is great to have woman on the front lines at time, as we all know they were in the civil wars and going way back in time..
Now days it is a matter real safty to all, to have anyone whom can pick up a gun and is willing to die for the cause, myself I think all wars are wrong, no one should be where they are in fact, I am a support all the soldiers that have service in this war, Just because they are there they are equal to men.
Men are no better then woman are, after all most men were raised by woman and we all know woman will do what they have to do keep their families safe.
I say bring them all home now, this is a war about religous and oil. We know at the end of all this, we had no choses in this war good or bad.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Lori, Kentucky — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 16:21:38 GMT

As a woman, I am always leery when a someone says women are "precious" and "special" and therefore automatically ruled out of a certain role. Various religions have done this for years - and look what that has done for women. It is unfair to make blanket statements that women cannot perform in combat. Let them prove themselves on an individual basis - the same as any man.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

TOM,SNBERLIN NY — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 16:22:21 GMT

GIVE ME A BREAK!ANOTHER FEMINIST PHONY HEARD FROM. ITS THE GLORIA STEINHEIMS,BELLA ABZUGS, AND HELEN GURLEY BROWNS, WHO SCREWED UP OUR SOCIETY, TO A POINT THAT MEN ARE ACTING LIKE WOMEN,AND WOMEN ARE ACTING LIKE MEN.WE CANT MAKE ENDS MEET UNLESS I GO TO WORK, AND LEAVE THE KIDS WITH GRANDMA. WHAT THEY ARE REALLY SAYING IS WE CANT HAVE A NEW HOUSE RIGHT AWAY OR NEW CARS RIGHT AWAY, OR GO ON EXPENSIVE TRIPS RIGHT AWAY! THIS INSTANT GRATIFICATION GENERATION,WHINES WHILE WE DID WITHOUT 50 IN TVS AND MEN GOT TWO JOBS IF WE NEEDED MONEY. MOTHERS BELONG WITH THEIR CHILDREN. WE NEVER HEARD OF LATCH KEY KIDS, OR SO MANY ABDUCTIONS WHEN MY WIFE WAS WATCHING OVER HER CHICKS LIKE A MOTHER HEN.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Hoot, walla walla, WA — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 16:22:22 GMT

hey, i just want to say i agree with most of the comments above, there are a few things i find really wierd though. there is a guy bitching about fobbits, thats cool i feel your pain bro, but why do you care? the SF dude is right as well as the guy from benning. i am now in the gaurd and i have done a tour in iraq, afghanistan, korea and thialand. i have been to a few places. i am also in the infantry and i know how shit can get a little hairy when things get stupid by the enemy, but there is one thing for sure that is constent. when your buddy gets smoked you dont care whether he is a man or a women, what you care about is that your buddy got smoked. if you cant get over the fact that some women in american society can actually do the job of a grunt then you need to visit some countries, such as isreal and russia where females have fought along side men for years and they do fine. my advise to those that want to be grunts fight for it, and those that dont think that women should, well get over yoursself or get out there and prove that you are better then they are once they are equally trained. one thing should be the same, the standards should be across the board regardless of sex, both PT scores and weapons quals. no bullshit.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Nigam — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 16:25:08 GMT

Your endeavor is greatly appreciated. Women are the legend of love, care and creation. She has more important jobs to accomplish at home than serving in the war, I believe.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Nameless, VA — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 16:27:55 GMT

i being an enlisted soldier thinks that all women should be allowed a chance. However, there is no front line being in the armed forces women can do just as much whether physical or not. Women have rights also this is not the 20's people it is a new era and women are starting to rule. So do i think the Maj. should have a chance yes and you men should suck it up because there is nothing to stop us now.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

S.Hayes, Jax, Fl. — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 16:30:00 GMT

San Diego (imagine that, from Cali!) is obviously inherently physically incapable of fighting their way out of a wet paper bag, let alone for the Armed Services! This countries greatest leaders were military men. The fact that you have the freedom to share you idiotic opinions in this forum is proof of the contribution made by those in the military! The "society" you speak of would not exsist without them.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Lori, Kentucky — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 16:31:29 GMT

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Jimmy Trantham — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 16:46:22 GMT

I wouldnt want a woman to be PMS ing and have a gun if I am someday a soldier in the Army. I also dont think Hillary should be president because she would have access to the button for nukes.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Daniel Pexton, Rome NY — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 17:01:03 GMT

Although I have not served in the military, I have been married to my wife for 26 years, and have endurred alot over the years.
We started out dirt poor, and have came a long way to resolving that!
Simply all I had to do was treat her as my equal, and she has my back!
So if Maj Clarkson has provin her self, and has the trust of her unit...Let her go!
Because there is no other person in the world that I would want beside me than my wife in any givin situation!
My Wife just came home, so I let her read this.
She said She wasn't sure, I ask why, She brought up this point...Hand to Hand Combat, She said yes...because it would be Him or Me.
But if there was a Direct Order givin to take out a person (like at 50yards) That same killer instinked might not be there.
(But if it was Me or the Kids, She would do what ever She had to do.)
I just said that same situation could happen to a man, You never know what a person is capable of until put in that situation anyway!
So if Maj Clarkson feels she is capable of doing that then let her do it.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Cpl, San Diego, CA — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 17:03:36 GMT

"San Diego" has no idea what they are talking about. The US military is probably the most singly representative organization in the country of the U.S. population in general. As to the "lower class" members of the military having little to contribute to society, and therefore not being capable of understanding equality, these statements are far beyond malicious. Many men and women have given the last full measure of their strength in this war. "San Diego" should spend more time contemplating what kind of people would be willing to do that and why. Or perhaps join up and find out just what it means to serve.

Women will be in ever more danger on the modern battle field, but it has nothing to do with equal opportunity. They bleed as men do and they become psychological casualties just like men. What you must ask is what are we going to do to employ women most effectively to kill the enemy and save friendlies? The honest answer will not be to use them as infantry.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Female SGT, California — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 17:04:52 GMT

Ok, this goes out to the person in San Diego who wrote, "Those in the American military are inherently less intelligent and uneducated".
As a woman in the military, I am unspeakably offended by what you wrote. I find that exponentially more offensive than someone telling me I can't be in the Special Forces. You obviously have never been in the military, so I ought to forgive you for your ignorance. Believe it or not, the military is a cross-section of American society. Sure, there are plenty of really stupid people in the military. If you don't think you're surrounded by lots of stupid people in civilian life, you need to open your eyes. You were right about your "broad generalization" having exceptions. There are lots of them, more than you are obviously aware of.
As far as women being in direct combat positions... When I was in Ramadi I went outside the wire more times than I could possibly count. Do I think that means I know what it means to be infantry or Special Forces? Not a chance! I realize it's a whole different ballgame from being support personnel and not actually trying to fight. If a woman can meet the same exact physical standards as the men, and if she can successfully complete the same training, I personally don't have a problem with a woman in combat position. I couldn't do it, and most women I know couldn't do it, but I'm sure there are those out there who can. I'm not offended that we're not allowed. I think that, for the most part, the authorities are trying to do what's best with their policy. I agree with the Vietnam veteran who said, "War is not a social experiment".

That's all I have to say about that.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Jeff Boland, Sparta, WI — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 17:07:04 GMT

My opinion used to be no women in combat. Reasoning was if captured what could happen to them. Maybe a naive reason. I am sure the torture that male prisoners can be put thru probably equals what women could be put thru. So its time to get real. When a women signs up she knows what possibilities could happen. Let her make her own decision just as men have been able to make that decision. We are not talking about a draft, we are talking about a volunteer military. It should be her choice. As far as can women handle it physically, mentally, etc. ~ I thought that was what basic training was for. If they can't handle it they won't pass thru basic or thru training. I was in the military and know just as many men as women who were booted out for one reason or another. I also know women who not only were as strong as the men but were stronger than me and maybe a better soldier than me. And I still consider myself a good soldier. So lets stop categorizing it as men or women and simply settle on soldiers. (Remember back so many years ago when blacks weren't allowed in the military, and then when they were it was seperate units and so on.) Turns out we were wrong about that to. Let women make their own choice and THANKS to all who volunteer to protect us and our country and hopefully FREEDOM as a whole!!!

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Mark M. Phx, Az. — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 17:14:36 GMT

this american are getting spoils: women's right and Gay's right it make american weaker. cause of no childern come out this american. and many schools are cuts cause of less childern. now you all talkies think that we are strong in American good luck!!.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

K. Young — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 17:18:27 GMT

Wow! What a great soldier! However, I feel that if women are to be in equal roles (i.e. combat, etc), then the women's standards (i.e. PT standards) needs to be equal to the men's standards. I'm sure MAJ Clarkson is physically fit and probably more fit than some of her male counterparts. But until the standards are equal, then I feel that women in the military should not be considered as equals. The standards are different for a reason - because women have different physiological issues.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Sgt. York CT — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 17:23:17 GMT

As a combat vet (rangers & special ops) I don't think women are capable of dealing with the stress & physical demands of combat. However, since the feminists demand "equality" I believe ALL female combat units should be created and sent into combat. Starting with ALL females signing up for the selective service or be denied student loans, access to colleges just like ALL males. Until then, all of you females & males (not men) should shut up and quit crying. Women are not equal to men no matter what the bias laws say. If women are equal to men, why the need for bias laws, dumbing down education (hard sciences & math) and lowering standards so women can pass (physical training) in the real world enemies don't slow down so a woman can catch up! Have a nice day, ladies!

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Former US Marine — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 17:27:13 GMT

I tell you in Vietnam they used Viet Kong used women and they were just as deadly as their men. I spilled water on my keyboard so I an't use the third letter of the alphabet, that is why I spelled Viet Kong ikkorektly. Peake Out from Dan

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

GETBENT — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 17:31:44 GMT

"Those in the American military are inherently less intelligent and uneducated. They clearly lack the mental capacity to deal with such a complex social situation as accepting that a woman might perhaps prove equal in ability to a man.
I don't mean this comment to be particularly malicious, but it is reality. Granted, such a broad generalization will have its exceptions, it is also historically undeniable that those in the military, particularly those in Iraq, like Vietnam, are the people that have little to contribute to society.
As a result, forcing them to accept equality amongst race, religion, ethnicity, sexual preference, and gender would only lead to more problems.

I believe women deserve equal treatment and I applaud their efforts to put themselves in such positions. However, it is the limited minds of the lower class that make up the military that suggest that mixing genders is a bad idea." -San Diego

San Diego: I am really glad you shared your thoughts with the group. I have been thinking that my college-educated, officer husband was intelligent!! Boy, you sure showed me the light. I was also thinking that he provided us with a comfortable income, health benefits, and support for our beautiful, healthy, legitimate children and that we weren't sitting around collecting welfare checks. I thought we were classy, educated people, but thank GOODNESS you reminded me that we are in fact, ignorant, uneducated, bigoted, broke, and low class. Where would we be without people like you to put us in our place and make sweeping generalizations based on nothing but your OWN ignorance??

I really do honestly believe that you should refrain from ever again opening your mouth about the men and women who are DYING overseas to give you the right to say things like that about them. And, by the way...what is your great contribution to society again??

"If you will not stand behind our troops, please feel free to stand in front of them."

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Melissa Meadors, Jacksonville Florida (Now Guam!) — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 17:34:30 GMT

To Anyone who thinks a women does not earn the right to be where she wants to be in the military.........you are in the 18th century! Me personally serving 10 years in the service as a female from desert storm and on personally can understand. I think any woman who wishes to serve in the military greatfully and enthusiastically takes on the role they know to be eminate and with many hazards. Just because they're are weak men who can't bear to stand the thought of a woman surpassing them in combat doesn't mean that "we" the "women of war" should sacrifice our committment, honour & courage so that men can "feel better about themselves". Suck it up guys. Stop being whiny-pansies and come to realize that us gals are just as competant (if not even MORE COMPETANT) when it comes to serving in various combat fields within the military structures. I salute EVERY FEMALE WHO HAS EVEN SERVED JUST 1 DAY. YOU ALL DESERVE MORE RESPECT THAN ANY MAN WILL EVER GIVE YOU WHEN IT COMES TO SERVING YOUR COUNTRY, GOD, AND FELLOW AMERICANS. YOU ARE THE ELITE, YOU ARE "WOMAN".

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

MH, MS MS — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 17:41:20 GMT

I think it is telling that most people in combat arms (who are not talking to a reporter) think women shouldn't be allowed in. Of course, everyone likes to assume that since they are in combat arms, they must be illiterate hicks (San Diego). It just sounds so good, sounds so FAIR to let women into combat arms, that people can't help but think its a swell idea.
I equate most of the contributions in this topic to myself walking into an operation room and with a loud, obnoxious voice (or with a snooty elitist voice like San Diego) proclaiming to the surgeon that I think he should do this and that. It is so easy to post on an anonymous site and tell ourselves we have spelled out meaningful opinion, but quite frankly people, if you would do even the smallest amount of research into the failed women-in-combat experiences of other countries, if you would look at studies aimed at explaining the physical performance gap between men and women (VO2 thresh-holds, bond densities, muscle mass, cardiovascular output etc.), if you would simply, for the love of God, base your opinion on FACT for once, instead of thinking, voting, and blurting out purely on an emotional basis, you would see what lunacy it is to allow women in combat arms.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

GETBENT — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 17:44:40 GMT

Sgt. York CT - I don't know if you realize this, but it is highly unlikely for a soldier to be a Ranger and Special Ops. You're probably in high school, where they have dumbed-down literature and english lessons so that little boys can keep up. Judging by the abundance of gramatical, spelling, and punctuation errors in your post, education standards haven't been lowered enough for you.
P.S. I don't know what you think you're talking about when you say all male soldiers are denied access to student loans and colleges...my husband is a college-educated officer and has never paid a dime out of pocket, partially thanks to things like G.I. Bill and Army Tuition Assistance...I think you have no idea what you're talking about, so please stop.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Paul R MI — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 17:47:25 GMT

Jane Doe NH

Yeah, Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot were all raised by women. So are/were the 62% of all prison inamtes. Wats to go Mom!

Women are not equal to men. They have done nothing but whine about equality yet have not signed up for selective service. Well, ladies, why not? Hypocrites.

For all of you who think selective service or draft is only for men because women don't do combat, neither has every single drafted soldier. Get a clue before arguing with me.

Women are nothing but crybabies.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Army wife and mother, Ft Hood TX — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 17:47:57 GMT

With both my husband and my son in the Army, my husband in Iraq and my son soon to be so, I read a lot of articles on the war in Iraq. I've seen male soldiers who were worthless, weak, and so fat that their velcro was ready to pop.

Physical fitness in all areas of service (male or female) should be the same. PERIOD. If you can do the job and pass the test, (again male or female) then no descrimination. You get the job.

Other jobs are that way--want to be a gate guard on Ft Hood? Male or Female you have to pass the same physical standards.

Being male doesn't automaticly make you a good soldier.

As to combat being against a woman's nature--I dare you to threaten a woman's children, think she can't fight? Guess again. Combat is in our nature just as much as in any other persons.

I say, pass the same physical standards, reguardless of age or gender.

Someone on here said, who the hell would want a woman next to them in combat?

I would, rather than a velcro poping 50 something male who passed an easier PT test than the 20 somthing woman.

Wake up and get out of the dark ages. Women are not delicate creatures to be sheltered and taken care of. We can fight, and if we can pass the same standards (that should be across the board to all soldiers) then no job should be closed to us.

As to physical endurance--men, when was the last time you endured 26 hours of hard labor with no sleep and no pain killers? Then took care of another while all you wanted to do was go to sleep?

equal physical tests, equal jobs--across the board.

Incidently, the medical personel over there are in as much danger as any others.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

AD2 Melissa Meadors.......Jacksonville, Florida (Veteran) — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 17:56:43 GMT

Sgt. York Ct...........you need to go get a reality check. as a female that served from 1990 til 2000 i saw many things that a man would rather not see. I think that if i am a strong enough women to deal with it you should go "suck an egg". I could pass you up in all equalities of education and physical fitness. So.......stop puffing up your dumb self and get with the program. You are one of those guys that have to make a woman fell supressed in order to make your own self feel superior............how sad your life must be. You can go sit on a grenade for all i care. Have a nice day, jackass!

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Ron Jesper — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 18:02:15 GMT

Hand to hand combat would eliminate all women in war. Unlike the movies, tv and Oprah, women don't go around beating up soldiers. Women should be in all female units and in combat so we can get the death number in war more "equal" so the ladies can have equality in war.

Of course we know women only want equality in clean, comfortable areas. God forbid a woman had to earn her way in this world. Lowering of standards don't equate to being prepared for real life combat, ladies.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

skysoldier — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 18:05:14 GMT

In the early 70s an army captain (female) was permitted to go through SF training at Ft.Bragg NC.To earn the right she took her case through the courts.Obviously,she prevailed, since everybody in the country at the time were clamoring to put women into the infantry just to prove that they were the same as men.It was as rediculous and dangerous then as it is now!Read on.

In the patrol phase of training, which lasts about 3 months, the above mentioned female was caught shorting her packing list (the equipment that every special forces soldier is required to carry in their rucksack and on other load bearing equipment to the tune of about 120 lbs minimum of gear), was warned about it, and given another chance. (a male soldier would have been kicked out right then).After being caught shorting her packing list on several occasions afterwords she was sent packing.The case went all the way to the federal courts, at her behest, which ruled in her favor once again.She was given the SF flash, which just cheapened the honor for the men who coveted and won it legitimately.She was eventually sent off to Germany never to be heard from again.

And that,ladies and gentlemen, is a real life case.The idea that if one is a man they are accepted, without question into the combat arms is as bogus as the case that many make to put women into such jobs, ie,that men and women are the same.In reality every thinking person knows that the only thing that's the same about a man and a woman is that they are part of the human family.

The social experiments have to stop when it comes to the military.There are a lot of guys who couldn't cut the mustard in an infantry unit, but a 110 pound woman couldn't even begin to come near to handling the physical load or the mental stress that the average man has to endure when it comes to continuous ground combat for weeks on end in many cases.And that's a fact!

The suggestion that the military must revamp (gin up) the physical fitness standards to make it easier for females to go into the combat arms only serves to weakin the men who have to go through the training and to, in my opinion, get a lot of those very men killed and maimed to satisfy this "sissyfication of the combat arms" crowd.

As a former wounded combat soldier who served 12 yrs in the Airborne Infantry I find this whole women in combat arms deal despicable and dangerous!It's only meant to serve the ends and means of the social engineering crowd who've already screwed the country up.Men and women are not the same and that's the long and the short of it!Having spoken my piece, my hat is off to all the female soldiers serving honorably in Iraq and Afghanistan at this time.I respect your service, but I vehemently disagree with letting you become part of the combat ars trade.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Alyssa Medici — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 18:08:41 GMT

I have to send a huge thank you out to Maj. Erica Clarkson for her valor and bravery for serving our country; she has both my respect and admiration. I value our many freedoms as an American and we have those very freedoms due to those who sacrifice their lives and serve in our all voluntary military. Those like Maj. Erica Clarkson, whether they be male or female stand up for us all, so we have the right to post in blogs like these. Whether we agree or disagree with the fact that women cannot yet serve on the front lines or in special forces; we have the right to speak, post in blogs and share our views in a variety of ways due to the bravery, strength and valor like Maj. Clarkson's. Second, I have to say I hope there is a day when women can serve on the front lines, provided of course they can meet the same requirements as their male counterparts. Perhaps only 5% or fewer of the current women in the miltary could actually reach those requirements, but who are we to deny them that option if they so qualify? Rising to the rank or Major shows that she is a capable soldier, what a shame they she could not serve her country in a capacity where she feels deeply that she could have. I read a comment about the possiblity of rape in a post a few spaces above mine. I am pretty sure that every woman in the military has given that possibility some thought at one point in their military careers. Women in general have that fear in the back of their minds, however I am sure any women who wanted to pursue a career in special forces in any branch, would do so only after thinking deeply about that possibility. Do you not think that the helicopter pilot Colonel Rhonda Cornum gave that some thought before joining the military? Perhaps, you could read Col. Cornum's book: "She Went To War", before making comments about trying to decide for women if its best that they be in the military, out of fears of captured. In my opinion, the possibility of being captured/tortured/raped should not keep women from joining if they are able to meet the qualifications for any position and equally important, if they choose serve in the capacity of special forces. In Israel it is a requirement for all citizens to serve their country after reaching a certain age, all citizens, women and men. I had a friend who lived in America and went to my high school, however upon graduation she had to go home to serve her two years. I kept in touch with her and she is an amazing individual, and has told me that her military requirement made her a stronger person. We can be thankful that our military is all volunteer, unlike many countries. Being an all volunteer military, I believe that all those who join should be able to attain any position they so qualify for, female or male. Lastly, God Bless to all those who have served and who are serving in our military now. I hope for a speedy end to the war so you all can come home safely!

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Name withheld, US Army, Germany — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 18:17:27 GMT

Should women serve in the Rangers and Special Forces? Are you kidding me, I say it depends on the capacity of how she will serve. As a woman who has been in the Army for over 22years and married to an infantry CSM serving with all males, I can tell you that this debate is about strength, endurance, mental and physical toughness. Woman do not have near the upper body strength of a man, this is a proven fact of life. look at our physical fitness test scores. I only have to do 18 push-ups to pass, while a male in my age group has to do 50. There are very very very few women who would make it through ranger or SF course period. Now, should we serve in the unit as human resourse, admin personnel, in the HQs perhaps we could. I could be a human resource officer in any unit in the Army, give me a desk and I can support. As long as I am not down at the squad level kicking down doors and carrying 100lb rucksacks I can serve. Give me a break this is a now brainer. Let the man fight the battles and the women support. The Rangers and Special Forces are a special breed of Soldiers

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

dave ionno Hartford Ct — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 18:18:47 GMT

Is there supposed to be something up lifting about a woman surviving war? Women fought us in Viet Nam. They were snipers and AACK gunners in Viet Nam. When Alexander invaded Afghanistan 2300 yrs ago, women came onto the field of battle to finish the dead. The Russians found the mutilated bodies of their comrades armless and legless by the side of the road in Afghanistan. What human qualities are lost in the flood of combat? All is lost. Ask men like me, a combat medic with the 23rd Inf in Nam. Ask the living, who speak with the dead everyday.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Guy Gutierrez St.Clair Shores, MI — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 18:20:40 GMT

I applaud this womans work, if not her ambition to fight like a man. Who would armed troops fighting over a womans affections, enemy fighting to the death rather than surrender to women, and lets not forget intercourse and babies. Thank God theres still aome chivalry in the Pentagon.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Civilian in Texas — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 18:20:50 GMT

I am a female civilian, so I am in no position to make judgements on the military's policy. However, I do know that the military would not be what it is today without women. Say what you want, but the bottom line is the military needs women in whatever capacity they chose to be in (keyword being CHOSE). If a woman can chose her career, her job, and/or her husband/boyfriend, then she can certainly chose her role in the military. As long as she's physically capable (just like any man) then it should be her choice. And those of you who have that old-world mentality that a woman should not be in combat just because she has a uterus need to rethink the direction of our society. After all, your mom CHOSE to have you.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Charles Eiland, Murrieta, CA. — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 18:29:25 GMT

As a vietnam vet, I applaud the grit this woman has. In my time, most female soldiers were either in a hospital, the Red Croos back at base, or a Donut Dolly. WHile I would not put them in front, certainly we have seen our share of women that can handle any situation. Sometimes their Male counterparts can't measure up. Kudos..SFC, USA Ret.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Lt. Fraenkel (ex E5), Tennessee. — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 18:33:19 GMT

Be careful of what you wish for, Ladies, you just might get it!
It's easy to say that it is unfair of our military not to allow you in combat arms. It will be a different world altogether when you are forced to put a bullet in the head of the enemy after patrolling 10 miles with 70+ pounds of gear and getting caught in an ambush!
It might seem like this debate is about equal rights - and true, it is unfair to prevent someone from doing what they want based on gender - however, our military has decided that women should not be in a combat arms role simply to make our fight easier, because:

1) Physical fitness. The 5% of women who can make the physical fitness requirement are speaking for the 95% of women who cannot do the same things men can do. With that being said, the female requirements to pass the PT test is a joke! The only women I have ever known to perform physically to the extent that men can, are trained athletes - not your average female soldier. It's a fact, on average men are stronger!

2)Dead and dying women, and in this case hostages too, would be of exaggerated concern to the males surrounding them, and there would be less men for the fight. The Israelis tried it and the men would mourn over the loss of a female, more so than a male, and be less inclined to fight due to the loss of their loved one RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEIR VERY EYES!

3) Unit cohesion. Nothing disrupts a bunch of guys more than when they're fighting over a girl! If Sally picked Johnny instead of Jimmy, and he kicked the crap out of Johnny for it - NONE OF THEM WOULD WANT TO FIGHT THE ENEMY! They would be too busy fighting each other. I would not want female soldiers in my platoon simply because of the interpersonal complications that would result.

If the military opened combat arms branches to women:
a) very few would join.
b) those that did would be unfairly judged, either too harshly or to lightly, compared to their male counterparts.
c) problems would arise.

We need less complications in our war right now, not more. Support the brave souls who would die for the freedom of the Iraqis, let alone us back in The States, by making life easier NOT POLITICALLY CORRECT!
Using this war as a political platform is offensive to us soldiers and a distraction from greater issues - MRAP's, compensation, Veterans benefits!!

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Mike, Buffalo, Ny — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 18:48:04 GMT

When women can pass the same physical fitness standards as a male, they should be able to do the same jobs. When you have to complete half the requirements as a male, you are already half as valuable. I am a combat veteran of the Armor Corp, half of the men couldn't handle the work- no woman would.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

GETBENT — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 18:50:10 GMT

Mark M, did you happen to go to one of those schools that were "cuts cause of less childern?"

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Mike Scott — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 18:51:09 GMT

RESPONSE TO BELOW EMAIL:
It is extremely obviously the below poster has NEVER served his country in any way and knows nothing of duty, honor, country. While brave men and women serve our country in often horrific and unimaginable situations and protect his right to free speech bought in blood by the very people he insults with his comments, perhaps he should sit back in his comfortable leather chair and sip his sissy latte and try to not drop danish on his silky shirt and think about the couragous men and women of this country who place themselves in harms way to defend our way of life. Also genius, many of the men and women have degrees and advanced degrees earned while serving so you should watch your comments about education. Also, since you never served and have no idea what the military is like, perhaps only 40% of the military related specialties are direct combat related if that. That leaves 60% or more available for women. Get this, this isn't the watercooler, office gossip world you live in, this is battle, war. Your concentration needs to be completely on the job at hand, not thinking about what Private "Susie Parker" in the next foxhole looks like in her jeans. Womens hygiene needs are much greater too. Also, most women (and some men as well, like you)don't have the physical strength or endurance to be an combat marine or ranger or infantryman. Most of those jobs require upper body strength and face it, few women have enough of it, that's genetic, not personal. As well, women captured by the enemy would have a far greater nightmare to deal with, it's been proven. I personally don't mind if women served wherever they want, HOWEVER, they have better be able to meet equal physial standards. Right now they are nowhere near and the physical standards they have to meet are much less than the mens. I think women are smart enough, dedicated enough and can be brave enough but they just are not strong enough.Perhaps youshould sit back, sip your latte and pray they don't reinstitute the draft and bring your narrow a$$ in. To you, your purple heart is a papercut, to us it could be our life and limb. Remember that. //////////////////////////////////////Those in the American military are inherently less intelligent and uneducated. They clearly lack the mental capacity to deal with such a complex social situation as accepting that a woman might perhaps prove equal in ability to a man.
I don't mean this comment to be particularly malicious, but it is reality. Granted, such a broad generalization will have its exceptions, it is also historically undeniable that those in the military, particularly those in Iraq, like Vietnam, are the people that have little to contribute to society.
As a result, forcing them to accept equality amongst race, religion, ethnicity, sexual preference, and gender would only lead to more problems.

I believe women deserve equal treatment and I applaud their efforts to put themselves in such positions. However, it is the limited minds of the lower class that make up the military that suggest that mixing genders is a bad idea.

San Diego (Sent Friday, August 31, 2007 8:24 PM)

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Anonymous, San Diego, CA — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 18:57:04 GMT

San Diego,

I regret to know that I actually live in the same city as you. I completely disagree with your thoughts that the military is consisted of the less educated. My grandfather served in the Marines, my father in the Air Force and my good friend in the Army Rangers until last week when he was killed in a helicopter crash in Iraq. All are extremely smart people dedicated to their country. And I would have to say that all have the "mental capacity" to put their "nature" aside to evaluate the role of women.

Being a woman myself, I agree that women should be put to the same test physically as men. If they pass, then put them wherever they deserve and want to be. However, if they fail, then they need to accept that women for the most part are weaker (ie. sports). The front line is not a place to prove equality between men and women, it is a place where each person needs to look at his/her physical and intellectual ability, regardless of gender.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Mike Huntington Beach — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 18:58:37 GMT

If a woman wants to see combat, perhaps she should get married....

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Sherry W., Muskegon, MI — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 19:12:41 GMT

Thank you Andrew Demma of Baghdad, Iraq!! You've spoken for so many of us, with dignity and great inteligence I might add! What more could be said! Thank you Andrew for serving our great country!!!

This extreme gratitude is extended to all readers who have, or are still serving in our armed forces! Which includes my nephew who is currently serving in Iraq as well, with the military police. He is serving proudly for all of us! This cannot truly express the deep sense of appreciation that is felt for all of you! God bless! Psalm 18:32

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Doanld V. Mason, San Diego California — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 19:18:01 GMT

Per Mr. Everett Franks comment regarding the Major.....I am a four tour veteran, who until acquiring advanced education also felt this way. However, advancing our education also advances the knowledge of the world around us and the patriarchal curtain of ignorance seemingly disappears. It becomes this curtain that keeps societies from truly advancing and becoming autonomous. Now I am hoping that Mr. Franks reads this slowly enough to have the time to use his dictionary to decipher the bigger words that he is reading.

Women throughout history have slowly evolved to take a very important role in helping their countries evolve. Women such as: Mother Teresa; Oprah Winfrey; and Anne Dudley Bradstreet have helped their societies evolve, take shape, and grasp a better understanding of our world.

Women in general have been shown to have been as brave in combat as their male counterparts. In World War Two because there was a shortage in male pilots, women known as WASPS flew the planes to men in combat zones; and Dr. Mary Edwards Walker, Civil War Medal of Honor recipient.

It may be theorized that men have been afraid of women and regarded them as a threat to a pre-existing male dominated society. Evidence of this can be found in written text as early as the Bible, when Eve was created from the rib of Adam. What better foundation then this to reaffirm a woman’s secondary role in the world as to state that not even God regarded women as being worthy enough to become their own evolved being, instead of being a part (rib) of a male (Adam). Intelligence would state that although we can have a belief in God we must also realize that man is corrupt in some cases and that there must have been some hands-on altering of the written text of religion by men who were creating the words of God. Thus, if you believe that God forgives us for our sins, then a little creative writing can't send us to Hell for an eternity, because God knows that we our not perfect, to include you, Mr. Everett Franks. Thus, from the beginning of time, women have been placed in the backseat of most evolving cultures except for that of the Spartan culture whom disregarded patriarchal mentality and regarded women as an important part of the future evolution of their political and social society.

Sadly though I am placed in the position of Mr. Everett Franks with the belief that women should not be on the front lines of combative environments, not because of his antiquated thinking but because of the way the majority of men are raised to believe in regards to women needing to be protected and societies continued bid to restrict them from autonomy. My belief is not that women would not be productive in combat, but the fact that males that worry about women in combat, would subsequently not keep focused on their mission and that might lead to the needless sacrifice of other troops, both male and female. So for now Mr. Everett Franks I agree with your contemptuous belief that woman should not be allowed to serve in hot zones, but not for your reasons. Women are truly capable, but men keep them as secondary military citizens due to how future generations of men are raised to believe they must protect women.
Don Mason, veteran USMC, Gulf War Veteran USANG

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

S.Hayes, Jax, Fl. — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 19:23:09 GMT

HEY! Did ya'll hear about the female G.I.in a bar that was recently offended by a male G.I.'s comments about "there's no place for women in combat!"? Yea, she got so mad she spun him around and said "those are fighting words, and you got one on your hands buddy!". Then she said "but before we start in keeping with current US military standards as they apply to men verses women, I need you to get on your knees, and place one hand behind your back." lol

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Dave Weisenburg, Lacey WA. — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 19:31:19 GMT

I am very impressed with what Erica, has done during her tour in Iraq. A lot of people look at a lady and think of them as good fro nothing but be personal with and as the old timers put it,"Bare foot and pregnant in the kitchen."
Well, the times have changed; women are just as good as men and can do anything that a man can do.
I am a veteran of 21 years both as a Nat. Gaurd, Reservist and Active Duty. During my tours I have met women that I'd be proud to serve in battle with and one in paticular still sticks in my mind today as it has only been 6 yrs since I was medically retired. Her name is Sandra Mosely Korea, she was a Spc when I served with her and now she is an Officer.
She was always first in line when it came to any task. So, if you have the privilage of serving with a women; thanks your lucky stars. Because in many cases they are the first to step in and get the task done and the last to step out. Take care Major and I hope to meet you some day on post. God Bless all men and women over there and come home safely.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

J Perez, Tampa, Florida — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 19:41:09 GMT

The combat line is no place for the weak of Body, Mind and or Spirit regardless of your gender. You bring it home with you and you lock it up inside and you live with it the rest of your life. You hear shells going off in the middle of the night and you relive the small arms fire when you close your eyes. The sacrifices made go beyond your actual service time. If you've never served, how dare you critize anyone in the Services, past or present. God bless our sons and DAUGHTERS serving regardless of their roles. Sempre Fidelis

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

MTaylor — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 19:43:22 GMT

I admire MAJ Clarkson and her service to our country as a soldier on the battle front. The opportunity to serve in the US Army’s elite forces shouldn’t be denied to her because out-dated laws casting women in traditional roles still exist on paper. Women are in direct combat, and lawmakers need to officially acknowledge this fact and update the laws allowing women to serve in elite units such as Special Forces. Keeping these outdated laws on the books while watching women die in direct combat is a disservice to those women fighting alongside their male comrades. It’s also a disservice to the American public by misrepresenting the fact that women are serving in direct combat.
Soldiers serving in Special Forces units are intelligent and receive highly-specialized training. Superior physical strength is treated merely as a right-of-passage in their training program to eliminate those they perceive as weak. Real-world missions require mental attributes far more desirable than the size of one’s biceps. Superior intelligence is far more likely to win wars than big muscles.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

SFC (RET),WA — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 19:49:16 GMT

I would first like to address San Diego's comment about the members of the military being the "dregs". Shame on you. I spent 15 years in the U.S. Army Infantry, and MOST of the people I served with had better than a High School education, and quite a few had AA's, AAS's, BA's, and even a few had higher than that. We're not stupid or incapable of suceeding elsewhere. Have you seen the LandWarrior system utilized by many infantry units serving in Iraq? Not something usable by someone of "lesser intelligence". But Let's get back to the point of the article.
Setting a standard rating system for Combat Arms MOS's in the military and allowing both males and females to attempt to meet that standard would be the only way of making this proposal possible. As a former infantryman I can honestly say there were women I would GLADLY have gone to combat with over some of the men I was forced to go with. Get over the trepidation of what could go wrong and let's turn the focus back around on what could go right by making these changes.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

_name — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 19:55:09 GMT

Next let's enlist children. Then somebody will come and proudly say that "This is what America is all about". Which would be true if our country was invaded.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

orinoco,london — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 19:55:26 GMT

she's doing a great job- a brave women doing what she does best-in this arena which is esstntally front line then women are every bit as capable as men. perhaps the issue here is should women join front line elite fighting units? the answer...no! women only want to join them because they are not allowed to. women cant because they are physically encapable of passing the rigerous selection procedures. kelly holmes the british double gold winning olympic athelete was a member of the british army- a few low profile tests were run on her to see womens capbility for special forces-a true athelete and amazing women-the tests were embarassing-even she stood no chance. the combination of physcial fitness and strength required were something not even she had.
the women smart enough and serious enough about such issues know that there are under cover special forces units like britains (det) where women can opt for selection and operate alongside men at the sharp end of the sword. one never heres these women complaining and they are some of the most proffesional soldiers in the world. no,the sort of women complaining about not being able to do front line infantry jobs are usually not even in the army and sat behind a desk somewhere with too much time on their hands getting angry at the principal of a owmen not being allowed to do something. the women out there actually doing it rarely complain and realise their already valued positions within armed service.remember war is not a social experiment and even if some women did past selection for elite units-the number would be so few-so whats the point in having a few women to add to sexual tension.places in elte units are also hard to come by and competition is fierce for a place on training programmes - so whats the point in giving places to women when it is more likely that a man would pass given the opportunity.
finally few people ever touch the raw issues of these nerves. elite soldiers have to operate in any environment-jungle,desert,arctic etc-in teh jungle for example elite special forces soldiers become attuned to their environment and become extremely perseptive to their environments and after time it is possible for a man to smell a women (her vagina) even if she is in a state of good hygene. this means the enemy can too!
there is a whole list of reaosn why a women cann't join a front line unit -you have to be a frontline soldier to know and understand these reasons thus any thrid parties opinion is invalid.the very face that front line soldiers dontbwant women working with them should be the main reason for them not being able to join.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Veteran, Corpus Christi, TX — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 19:59:27 GMT

Lets create an all female battalion and let them fight on the front lines. This experiment would once and for all determine if women are suited for cambat. It so suited, institute the draft and draft only women until they equal the number of men in the military. Only when women start coming home in equal numbers as men in the body bags would I finally agree with feminists that women are equal. Until then, they belong at man's side as a partner, not an equal.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

_name — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 20:03:50 GMT

Derek, what was the reason for Saddam to risk his dictatorship and face a strong enemy (USA)? And why USA did not kill Saddam with one rocket instead of envading Iraq and bringing a disaster to this country (and USA)?

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Charles Man — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 20:19:28 GMT

Females are made differently than males in fundamental emotional, physical and mental ways. In There is an order in the nature of things as we know it.For the human species to work at the most funamental level, the sexes must serve different purposes. Observe our closest mammal relatives, the great apes ans so fotrth. Nature or God has put those genetic differences in place for reasons that transcend human politics. I have lived a civilian and in military life. I have experienced the differences in men and woment. I have seen courage, compassion and intelliges displayed in both genders. But it is also a sad experience witnessing the deformed product of feminism in the real blood and guts world of nature. A female sargent shreiking commands at strong young studs is a humiliating sight. To stick men and women in tight quarters in any circumstances is always an invitaion to men being liabled and ruined at many levels. The folly of the feminist rah rahs is their deliberate denial of their animal nature and the real world we inhabit. Review documentaries of WWII battles, of a series called "Victory At Sea," and any otheres you can access. Then you'll see what the men did to allow you all to bicker duirng this invasion of Iraqu---then will you be humbled at how stupendous is the diffence in men---fighting a World War. then will you hopefully come to your senses and see that the savagery is so unspeakable that you will not vote to send your daughters, wives and girls into the hell , so they can become more and more like the safvage beastes men already must become to survive. Wake up! Don't concoct a mix of our great male heritage with the femlale nature, thereby diluting both---to seve misguided politicans and arm chair cheerleaders. No --to women in combat roles and our special units. Thses guys are special because they are uninhibited, all- male units. Remeber the meaning of "Brotherhood." It has served this country supremely without women in the military mix.
No to women in combat.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

aj, stl mo — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 20:48:31 GMT

it's all about the monty. they would have to pay equally and promote equally.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

aj, stl mo — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 20:55:06 GMT

ps. they also die senselessly since the excuse is that since they are not in combat, they don't need the same training-remember Jessica and her Pima friend. anyone not "combat" doesn't get the same training, and therefore does not have the same chance to come out alive. and yes, if young men are drafted-so should young women. the day bush's daughters go to war is the day mine will.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

G Jones Atlanta GA — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 20:58:47 GMT

I am a vietnam vet and far away from military action, but was impressed by the strong morale boost which is much needed over there. The several women in my unit were appreciated but this new military has much more.
I really feel for all the men and women over there and hard to imagine the heat and gear added to protect from bullets and against a suicidal crazy enemy that never seems to stop. It is tough service there and all the troops should be welcomed when they return home as the heroes that they truly are.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Ruth A. Vaillette — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 21:07:03 GMT

My daughter was in Desert Storm. To qualify in basic, she and the other females had a seperate set of physical rules. 7 push-ups, things like that. The guys got no slack. I'm a product of the '60's.I was a staunch womens libber. But, I don't want women in war. Not "my daughter." That said, if they can preform 100% equally, go for it. 100%. Not one iota less.
But I don't want the guys there either. I know they are doing a hell of a job, I'm very proud of everyone of them, but I want them all home. Now.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Robin, ft campbell, ky — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 21:11:09 GMT

I myself think women, should NEVER be in the front line, NOR SPECIAL FORCES EVER!, There are to many women who think they are stronger than men esp. sf men. I don't think a womans strength can ever match that of a mans. Sure they can sometimes out do them in running, sit up, push ups, what ever, that is much different than having to lets say pull a man that might be 6'1 280 lbs and the female soldiers is maybe what 5'3-5'6 she's not ever going to be able to pull a man of that size from possible fire fight, cross fire etc. Direct combat, women need to stay right where they are in the military, better yet they shouldn't be in it at all. I know SF all to well.

I also know what way to many women pull when surrounded by nothing but "MEN". To many women have fantasies about GI JANE, that is not real, and never will be.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

art mallory laurel, md — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 21:44:29 GMT

ok let"s have woman who serve in the armed forces
assigned to combet units as infantry etc however make
the choice the department of defense and not the
individual in other words when you join your chances
of assignment to a infantry unit will be the same as
the men

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Liza — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 21:54:57 GMT

quoted from above: "No doubt Clarkson is doing a great job and I thank her for that but combat? If she knew what it was really like I don't think she be so quick to think she was missing something."

Why don't you let her decide that? Men can decide whether to serve in combat roles.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Tommy Brazelle — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 22:12:11 GMT

I read and laugh myself silly at most of the comm. that elders make in the blog.Today I feel I need to say something and if you don't like what I say, then roll over it as I do most of your's.
If a man could endur a birth or if aman could handlely handle four or more little people and do what is needed to help them grow ment.& phy.to good humans. then have you on her mind to do the cheer leader so you'll do another day of labor to provide for all the needs of home.
My freind I could not start to plan a DAY that is mostly for some one else and that persons self worth is tied to it.
I am a vet. from Veit-nam a medic.I had the honor of seeing the committment of one woman.We had dust-off and were going with rest less injured in the box(ambulance).We came around a bend in the road that was about 170% and the road behind us was no more and in front of us was about 10 or 15 soldiers. I was in the lead box and I stopped to tell her that we were just try to run overthem.I was not propared to think like SHE did.She had one of the wounded drive her rig and she moved off up hill with a m-16 and four gran.She had began drawing the most fire it worked and I sit here as a result of her mind set.Much of the memories of the time when the world stopped until I came home.I lost a good freind and came to know the cost of war.BUT GETTING BACK TO THE POINT OF THIS BLOG.I quickly learned in cobat the female is the deadlyest because in their mind set is the group is 90% more inportant then any one member.I have first hand learning they will go to death to protect other.
All areas of the military life are quite even exept the boys will always want to protect the (weaker set?)
I said my peace I'm done

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Roy G., Denver, Co — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 22:14:21 GMT

If women want to go to the front lines (the know the risk) then the should go. Just like israel everyone (men & women) fight for freedom.
(former cpl, USMC)

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Ginger Denton Salida, CO — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 22:20:17 GMT

As every woman in America has experienced and still does every day...."it has less to do with the capability of women than the inability of men to HANDLE women doing the job"
I was a deputy sheriff not too long ago-one of 3 women in an academy of 38 people. Male officers including my supervisors were extremely threatened when I turned out the best shot and best in patrol procedures in my class. In fact they were so threatened and envious they actually put my life in danger-something they would NEVER do to each other.
And so petty folks, that at graduation, instead of being recognized as the "best" I was recognized as the "oldest" LMAO!!!!
Technology, experience and brains are much, much more important than size and strength, pure and simple. Even in firearms training we were taught "it's not the size of the gun or the ammo, it's the PLACEMENT"
Men will never ever get over a strong capable woman, especially if she is more capable than them.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Dennis california — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 22:22:07 GMT

As long as the standards are not lowered in order to allow for some insane political correct perfect world socialist view, then it shouldnt matter if a soldier is male or female. However, if the standards are lowered to a level of "personal best" ....... then I dont want that individual next to me when my life is on the line! sorry for you "we all are the same" people, when its my life your touchy feely crap dont mean squat. I dont want the person next to me who has to have standards lowered whether I am fighting a fire or in a fire fight! Male OR female.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Professional Woman; San Francisco, CA — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 22:32:19 GMT

I can't believe the sexism I see here. I didn't even know until I came across this article that women actually weren't allowed in direct combat. I am not in the military, but I am a career-oriented woman who expects (not want, think I should be, but EXPECT) to be treated equally with my male counterparts in my field (which is by the way, quite male-dominated), when going up for a job, and in my salary requirements and promotions. And you know what? I am. And it's tough to compete against all the smart men AND women out there to come out on top. But the best person wins. This is how it should be everywhere. My question is, why is our military so backwards that they still view women in an antiquated view as the "givers of life" and "the weaker sex". To take a quote from Sex and the City, "did someone just order a Victorian straight up?" You men who are saying you need to "protect" women are the same ones who patronize strip bars and purchase magazines that completely objectify, insult, and demoralize women.

I am just extremely disappointed to hear the representatives of our country, the military, speaking in such chauvinistic terms about 50% of our population. Do you vote? I hope you don't. Do I believe special requirements should be made for women in the military? No! Make them do all the pushups, the obstacle courses, everything, everyone equal. Any woman I have ever known in the military has been super tough. Those women rock. but they probably work way harder than you men, but you won't let them get promoted to management levels, in our allegedly meritocracy-driven country. Get a grip, men, and stop trying to push women back into the kitchen.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Stan, Regina, Sask — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 22:33:20 GMT

The mindframe of San Diego, is clearly a 1 way train, 1 directed and wont look at it from any other angle other than his own 1 ignorant view, rather than think you know everything, why dont you join the forces.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Dennis California — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 22:34:16 GMT

I just read your post San Diego ........ you remind me of why I have so little respect for any American who has never been in the military. Less educated? Less intelligent? The average 18 year old soldier who graduated from advanced training has the equivalent of an associates degree, then they continue from there. Then they go on to handle and repair multi-million dollar hardware and deal with life and death decisions on a daily basis, while you the civilian kid are flipping hamburgers, the man in the military is learning different languages and doing something you couldnt even dream of. Trust me on this, you show just what the description of unintelligent is when you post. Oh and by the way, I am a veteran, and a member of Mensa, which with a handful of change will get me a bus pass.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Patrick Bonny,Undp Arawa,Bougainville ,A.B.G P.N.G. — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 22:45:09 GMT

It's good to have woman in the militaly but let's not angaged them on" frontlines".

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Charles Day — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 22:58:39 GMT

Maybe not having women in combat has to do with the way men are taught. from child hood men are expected to help and protect women wheather they need it or not and this type of mental distraction in combat could and would cost the lives of men. As a child growing up if a boy hit you you were expected to defend yourself, while if a girl hit you there was no way to win- if you hit her back then you were looked down on and disciplined and if you didnt hit her back then were ridiculed by your peers and she knew that she could get by with it, because if she hit you then you probably deserved it (supposedly) You want women on the front lines, equality begins in child hood, not at deaths door.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Mariam, Florida — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 23:14:44 GMT

I really hate to say things like this, but they need to be said. Veterans like the above comment author Everette Franks really should have either been shot down in war or at least lost the ability of communication in every form. That way they would at least have some glory still attached to their names instead of seriously enraging women like me among other disfavorable attributes!!! I am an American born Muslim woman, whom unlike the majority of my sisters in faith is very outspoken, and constantly reminded by my husband that I have a very big mouth! I don't retract when I see or hear of a verbal injustice to those whom both living and past give their lives to support the privledge of freedom which we were lucky enough to be born into. I will say something! If it were not for women serving our country, so many more would be lost. Back in the vietnam days women were still bustling around their homes and in the kitchens with aprons on. And that was how they were viewed. NEWS FLASH!!! The majority of us despise wearing skirts and pantyhose when roaming our domiciles, and don't even own an apron! The strength of women has increased several thousand times over in the past several decades because it has had to! Back in the day when it came to doing physically demanding tasks, a man would call his buddy over to assist while the Mrs. watched from the kitchen window. Nowadays, the women are either the ones assisting with the labor, or doing it completely alone! My husband and I own a carpet cleaning business and have a truck mount machine (older model) which requires a bit of muscle to assemble and dis-assemble. We have no employees, so it is just the two of us. Sometimes when he gets tired I take over until he is revived again. and after the job is complete I pack up all of the equipment, and MANUALLY wind the hoses onto rusty contraptions which are bigger than me (did I mention I'm 5' 96lbs?)! We are completely capable of undertaking ANY task that we set out to complete! That doesn't mean that men are weaker than us! It just means that finally after hundreds of years of being labeled as the weaker sex, women are catching up to men in the strength department. And Insha-Allah (God willing) in time women will no longer be considered the "weaker sex", but instead be reffered to as an "equal strength sex"! Keep your heads up ladies, that time may just come after all! And let me also make mention that if it weren't for completely psycotic religious yahoos like Osama Bin Laden non of this would be happening! He has given a bad name to the Holy Quran, and completely disgraced the name of Islam!!! Him saying that he is the messiah of Islam is like a Christian man throwing a holy war claiming he is the baby Jesus (whom is exhalted as a very important profit to Allah!)!! If that happened nobody would take him seriously! And believe it or not Islamist Sunni Muslims like myself think Osama should be shot down like the lunatic that he is and daily life as it was should go on like normal! In Islam there is only one God! And none should be worshipped but he whom is the creator! Osama's followers claim to be Muslims, but as they worship Osama, and not Allah ONLY, they are NOT TRUE MUSLIMS!! And will indefinitely go straight to hell after death!

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Stephanie, Madison MS — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 23:17:36 GMT

As I read the article I began to ask God for safety for all the men and women who are serving there. Reading the msgs posted was interesting and I agree that sometimes there does seem to be TMI given out about our military,etc. I enjoyed reading the comments and the debates. However, reading San Diego's comments caused me to pause and ponder the basis of his assertions about those serving in the military being "inherently less intelligent and uneducated" and "it is also historically undeniable that those in the military, particularly those in Iraq, like Vietnam, are the people that have little to contribute to society." Clearly he is the one that is unintelligent and uneducated about the military. Intelligence is a complex construct which you have not operationally defined so I gather that you are referring to having learned people with a post high school education. Certainly not everyone who is serving has a college degree but does that make them unintelligent and uneducated. Isn't them being in the military protecting us contributing to society? If he were to look at military history he would also note that during the Vietnam era the draft was in place and many of those drafted were minorities and those from lower socioeconomic status and did not have the means to escape to Canada or join the National Guard rather than going overseas. Those serving today are not drafted but are volunteers and are people who are not only active duty but those in the National Guard and Reserves who have been deployed--many with terminal degrees. Does contribution to society mean on a financial level? For that matter don't all of us attempt to find ways not to give the government all of our money including the rich of the richest. The military is a complex social structure both for the person serving and for their family. How do I know because my husband has been deployed three times--first with Desert Storm and twice with this present campaign--and my brother served in the military for over 20 yrs. Rather than belittling them we should be thankful to them for their service and look to how we can get them home safely and whole. As a mental health professional wholeness means mind, body and soul. Statements of your caliber are more harmful than helpful. I urge you to take your passion and turn it into compassion and find a soldier who has returned home from this campaign/war and previous ones and ask what you as a citizen can do for them.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

David, Atlanta, Georgia — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 23:29:11 GMT

Women have demanded to be treated equally in many aspects of society (voting, etc). This equality should also be recognized in war. Of all 4,000 soldiers that have died in the war, only 80 of them have been women. This is attributed to the fact that "fighting women" do not have a direct role in the war. This article is therefore deceptive. Women have no idea what it is like to pick up a rifle and go on patrol, with the constant fear of roadside bombs. They also never have to worry about the draft. As they demand equality to men in society, we should give it to them, including equality to men in the armed services.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Female Officer, FT Worth Texas — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 23:51:25 GMT

Keep up the great work Major Clarkson from a female officer proudly serving along side my male counterparts. For SanDiego--you need to do some research on those of us who serve, we are the educated and the proud. Whether enlisted or an officer, nor branch of service we are the educated with college degree's, technical certifications, etc. We are the lawyers, the doctors, the pilots, the nurses, the mechanics, the medics, the finance mangers, the security, etc who provide service to all.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Steve — Sat, 01 Sep 2007 23:54:43 GMT

Women want equality, put them on the front lines. Women complain that they can't get flight time because they are woman, they can't get promoted. Put them on the front line just like the men that serve. You can't demand equal pay, equal treatement and then bow away from front line fighting. This woman as well as the men should be honored for being in the service. The double standard has to go. Equality = across the board equality. And make our represenatives CARE for our service people when they come home. Good quality lifetime CARE.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

CD Henderson — Sun, 02 Sep 2007 00:00:51 GMT

I've stopped feeling sorry for anyone who is killed or maimed in the service.

After I read an article about the family who sent not one, not two, but all three of their kids into war... there are some stupid people out there.

I feel like the government is laughing with each idiot they ship off to Iraq; it's like cleansing our nation of people they'd probably rather not have here anyway.

Truth be told, I'm offended by stories like this, which try to put a positive spin on the war in Iraq; in the end they're fighting a war for oil circa 1991. Write more stories about the thousands of Iraqis killed because of our presence there; that's a story I'd like to read. Write a story about the former physical therapists in Iraq who are now IN physical therapy because they've been maimed by a roadside bomb.

Boo, hoo... women can't play soldier.

Get over it.

And start writing articles that focus on the reality of Iraq, not these puff pieces.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Josh Fredman, Seattle, WA — Sun, 02 Sep 2007 00:33:26 GMT

To the extent our military aspires to better itself and rise ever higher than before, I offer this three-sided challenge to the nation:

1. Let females aspire to any career track, any position. Let them qualify under the same fitness tests given to their male counterparts. Those who are not up to the demands of the hardest roles, will have to content themselves with service in other roles…just as it is for males.

2. Let males aspire to respect the service of all their brethren in uniform. Those whose competence is compromised by the presence of qualified females, are themselves not qualified to serve. They will have to content themselves with being reassigned to a position more suited to their strengths and weaknesses.

3. Lastly, let the physical fitness requirements themselves be rewritten, across the board, to better reflect the realities of modern military service. Many aspects of these tests are meant to weed out females rather than serve the military's interests. Some say that barring females who do not pass the harshest tests actually does serve the military's interests, but, beneath the surface of that argument, there is a crucial difference between simply having maximum strength and endurance, and actually being physically and psychologically fit for a given role.

This challenge, if accepted, will mean big changes in the culture of the armed services. But changes for the better, I think most of us can agree.

Let me conclude by offering my personal gratitude to Major Clarkson: You are an inspiration to people everywhere, and, as was said above, you are living proof that females are capable, logical, lethal, and non-hysterical in combat.

Not all females can perform like that, naturally. Nor are all males capable of performing well under such harsh conditions. And yet, up to this point, males have been judged on their merits individually, whereas females have been judged by their sex, as a group, and the inability of some females has curtailed the ambitions and opportunities of all females.

The double standard in the military has often been used by sexists to attack female service: Females aren't held to the same fitness requirements. Well, by the same token, males in uniform aren't subject to the constant barrage of prejudice and suspicion that uniformed females endure. The double standard doesn't just benefit females; it benefits males by at least as much. Only by putting an end to it entirely, can the military begin to accomplish this inevitable, beneficial, and worthwhile mixing of the sexes.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

John Peele, Maitland, FL — Sun, 02 Sep 2007 00:39:54 GMT

It is interesting that the press knows how many Iraqi Civilians were killed, how many Co-Alition Forces/Troops were killed, but never mentions how many Iraqi based Taliban and other Militants were killed.
That seems a bit biased. Why don't you tell it all or nothing?
I would like to echo and commend Derek M. Herbert, Moreno, CA - Great Words of Wisdom.
God Bless America and We Should all Support or Troops. They certainly support us.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Jane., Englewood, FL — Sun, 02 Sep 2007 00:54:02 GMT

I am wondering if having women in a front line situation is appropriate. I feel they could and likely would be a distraction to some men around them. By that I mean that most men would probably be moved to protect a woman while facing certain combat situations because she is just that....a woman. Even though women who are able bodied and capable of front line duty, many men I think might find it impossible to treat her as an equal, albeit unjustifiably, in not totally trusting her strengths or judgments. I think the women who are serving now are wonderful human beings and I applaud their dedication. I know they are doing marvelous things and risking their lives in the process. I am grateful to them.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Sharla, Wichita KS, former Naval Aviation Electrician — Sun, 02 Sep 2007 01:23:04 GMT

I have to laugh aloud reading posts like "women are precious" (the guy who didn't think women belonged in combat, etc), and that women shouldn't do this or that. It's ridiculous that in 2007 there are still ignorant people making ignorant, uneducated statements like those. My Navy cap off to every woman in the military, everywhere.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Utahreb, Veyo, UT — Sun, 02 Sep 2007 01:43:43 GMT

I had to laugh a little bit when I read that women are the "caregivers" and as such would not be good fighting material. Look back at history and you will read stories of the women warriors that were feared more than the men. Women, when fighting for something they believe in, are a formidable force and a force to be reckoned with.

Read about the Native American women who decided the manner of death for the white-eyes and you will read some horrifying tales. Give a woman a rifle and tell her that her family and loved ones are in danger and you will have the worst time of your life dodging shells.

As a 70 year old female in a rural area, I have two rifles and know how to use both of them - a 30-30 and a 22. My girls learned alongside their brothers how to strip down a rifle, clean it and reassemble it before they were allowed to fire it.

Yes, some women are not physically able to pass the tests for Ranger or Special Ops, but they should be allowed the privilege of at least trying. If they fail, so be it. Most of them would just try harder and try again after more training.

There are no "front lines" in Iraq and Afghanistan - a medic or physical therapist or helo pilot or transport driver can find themselves in the middle of a fire fight at any time or place. At least give the women the training to be able to be responsible and capable in these situations. Give them the chance to show what they can do in the military.

One other thing - there are many of us who have skills such as office work, computers, etc., who would love to be able to enlist and take some of the office jobs that are now being filled with young people in the military. If we could, then that would free up more personnel to be in the field. Too bad we are considered too old to be of service to our country.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

dan lestelle sunland ca — Sun, 02 Sep 2007 01:44:05 GMT

i think you all should get the same campaign ribbons as any male, our goverment sucks when it comes to that, god forbid that we admitted you were in a combat zone. i am 52 years old, i cant go but would gladly go for a young kid.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

jordan — Sun, 02 Sep 2007 01:45:15 GMT

I wish all the men that believe women shouldn't be in the military or in combat units would enlist in droves enough to cover the hundreds of thousands of women that would be forced to exit military service. What? Dont' want to? You'd rather sit in the comfort of your home with your beer belly, scratching yourself and spitting out your tobacco while shouting obsenities at yet ANOTHER FEMALE soldier, airman, or marine pulls a male comrade out of a burning humvee, or helps carry him to the medevac helicopter, or performs surgery on him while mortars contiue to fall around the fob, or return fire during a convoy? you're pathetic. how funny for some idiots to still think women don't belon in combat. it's ok to watch the news and hear of women being abducted, raped, mutilated, pulled from dumpsters or rivers, but it's not okay to hear about a woman in uniform serving with the dignity that will at least allow her the opportunity to protect herself from the enemy, not her husband, brother, boyfriend, father, uncle etc....i don't care who or what you are. if you have the balls to enlist and put yourself in harms way for my safety, then God bless you and carry you back home safe and sound.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Carlos Nels — Sun, 02 Sep 2007 01:47:31 GMT

Too many wanna-be Generals who haven't been shot to pieces yet...or worse, watched their buddies shot up as they watch. I say let them into combat all the way. We have too many starry eyed writers yearning for glory or idiots who don't understand how corrupt the Draft was and will be, if reinstituted...the Bible Colleges will fill up first with deferred students...that from our so-called base constituency.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

SPC Bates, Batesville, AR — Sun, 02 Sep 2007 01:49:17 GMT

I keep reading all these comments about women in combat MOS's, and lemme tell you, its just physical hardships, or mental strain. The main issue with women in combat MOS's is field hygiene. According to Army regulation a female must be allowed a chance to shower every three days. Not a problem in Iraq right now you say? Well sure its not, but whats to say it won't be a problem in future conflicts. When we intially invade a country soldiers can go without performing personal hygiene for days, sometimes weeks. I am an Infantryman, and if not for the hygiene limitations, I'd say let them try. I know of at least three females off the top of my head who would be HOOAH enough for the job.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

SERGEANT FIRST CLASS(RETIRED) — Sun, 02 Sep 2007 01:51:13 GMT

Let us not forget that it was co President Hillary Clinton who pushed the issie to allow women to serve in combat.How soon we forget

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

jordan, Austin, Texas — Sun, 02 Sep 2007 01:54:24 GMT

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

GOUSAF — Sun, 02 Sep 2007 02:11:58 GMT

Women have DIFFERENT physical capabilities than men...they are weaker in some, stronger in others. Cardiovascular health really doesn't have anything to do with muscle mass, for one. If a woman is fit enough and determined enough, she will be on par with the men in her unit. And if she can do that, by all means, let her be in the special forces or the Rangers. In Israel, women are expected to fight same as the men do...they don't have much to work with, and Israel has one of the most badass armies (albiet small) in the world. I don't buy the crap that women can't be strong enough for combat just because they're a woman. In my years in the martial arts I've seen women throw men twice their size and knock them out. True, some just can't take the physical rigors, no one person is the same; but others who can take the physical demands should be able to serve their country without limits. They used to say that women would never be fighter pilots...now they are. Not many women can be that way, but some have enough testosterone in them to blow the traditional gender roles out of the water.

True, women are sadly limited in some of their physical capacity, but I've met some badass women in my day...and they looked like they would be more than happy to punch anyone in the nose that got in their way. Society has to get over the stereotypical woman figure who is afraid of guns, skinny with a big chest, and whines about doing pushups...women like that just don't go out for the armed forces. They are not baby-producing devices, in fact many are offended if you think they are. Women like MAJ Clarkson probably weren't stereotypical little girls...I wasn't one. I played with toy airplanes and wanted to skydive...I didn't want to play with barbies and go on the ferris wheel. Women can be more determined than most men...maybe just for the sole reason to show everyone that they can do something men can do. Never underestimate a woman's determination.

Good luck to MAJ Clarkson; it says something when a female will volunteer to prep a dead body and put herself in a situation when she will see horrific injuries. That is not palpable or easily stomached by anyone. You are the inspiration to military women everywhere!

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Robert W Jones, Sr. — Sun, 02 Sep 2007 02:27:15 GMT

isr the first time in any foreign conflict we have mixed the gender's to where there practically is no destinction. Certainly anyone that watched Spike Lee's docu drama regards Katrina one see's our women were equally as devistated as our men and children. I being a Vietnam era vet USAF 1961-1968 have to admit I had my doubts. It goes to show you how stupid or ill informed I was. Our gals are making us proud everyday same as our boy's. God Bless America, and a special blessing on our soldiers. May HE give us victory over our enemy's. I am not one however who believe's we must stay there until we get another wall full of dead or MIA's. We have been there long enough now that the Iraqi's and their neighbors should stand up and be counted. al-killa's are just that - Killers, rapists', and long for the taste of the blade. In Vietnam after we left yes people died. But look at that country now! We are buying their exports right now, had we stayed we would still be fighting. You cannot beat freedom into people, they have to want it bad enough to fight for it and then fight to keep it. Our men and women belong at home. You give these people $500.00 and they will fight on whatever side is counting out the money. It's amazing what the $100.00 bill can buy. We bought Afghanistan, for a short time. Saddam is gone. We should come back as far as the pre existing drawn lines after the Gulf War and let the chips fall where they may. Only then will the world see what Iran and Syria are up to and Jordan, the Saudi's, and Egypt call get envolved to the extent to stop this madness!. Just my thoughts.

'There is no front line' for women in Iraq

Kurt F., Bloomington, MN — Sun, 02 Sep 2007 22:52:57 GMT

That's bizarre seeing someone with whom I went to high school end up on NBC news! Erica was always incredibly smart and an honor student in high school. She's still giving 110%. Best wishes to her always.