The Great Firewall of China

James Buchanan, Laurel, MD — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:49:16 GMT

Perhaps when they've clamped down enough on people wasting their energy chanting and blogging about their troubles, they might actually get up from their computers and take an active hand in bringing it down.

Something a little more than the passive sitting in a square waiting for the tanks to roll, that is.

The Great Firewall of China

Jim L — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:52:47 GMT

Its the same thing Oil companies have done for decades in the mideast... support the despots while you bleed the country dry. Then the people bled dry blame the USA and its the teens and 20 yr olds[American and otherwise] who die, not the CEOs and investors reaping the money.

The Great Firewall of China

George McKinney — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:53:26 GMT

And what are all of us in the "free" world doing about it? Have you boycotted Yahoo for their craven surrender to censorship? And how about the names of the companies and programmers that have built the system? It's time we ALL let them know you can have free customers, or sell to dictatorships, but not both.

The Great Firewall of China

steve,wixom,michigan — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 17:25:19 GMT

It's a absolute disgrace that American companies are participating in this horrible fascist nonsense. But what can you expect I suppose when America's real God is,and always has been,the almighty dollar.

The Great Firewall of China

JohnDoe — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 17:26:03 GMT

In the recent issue of Fortune magazine, you can read a story about Bill Gates and his visit to China, his "chummy meetings" with bureaucrats and , plutocrats. When asked about free speech, Mr. Gates refused to comment. Freedom of speech is traded as a commodity for questionable profit outlook. Well done.

The Great Firewall of China

Bill Casey, Galveston, TX — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 17:38:28 GMT

As a small electronics manufacturer I too am a victim of the Firewall of China. There is zilch that is political about our site but they're blocking it anyway - I guess they don't want anyone to buy from us even though we are pouring dollars into their country. Too bad our political leaders are such wimps!

The Great Firewall of China

TEC-SPRING-TX — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 17:46:10 GMT

So,do you think big brother is wacthing this blog?

The Great Firewall of China

Chuck, Chicago — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 17:53:53 GMT

I wonder if there are websites blocked in the U.S. Are there such examples?

The Great Firewall of China

Foy, Las Vegas, Nevada — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 18:14:51 GMT

This makes me angry. All the western companies providing ANY internet services for China should all, every single one, tell China to either allow Google, etc. to operate freely like the rest of the world or create their own Google. Why are these "good" companies helping China keep their people down?

The Great Firewall of China

Kerri, Baytown, Texas — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 18:37:56 GMT

Guess China really doesn't want us to know how bad their products really are, afterall they have lied every step of the way when there is proof posative that they are exporting poison.
It's just like the rest of the world. Once the World Wide Web came to be the rest of the world saw how we live and wanted the same. Then the walls came tummbling down. China is trying to keep that from happening there. If they spent all that money on cleaning up their act rather than trying to keep their people in the dark we would have no problem importing their food. How sad that a government has such control over it's people. How many billions of people in China? That looks like a huge army to me. American's took up arms against England why dont the people in China and Iraq do the same? And it is shameful that any American, company or other wise would work this hard to make sure freedom of speech is unavailable to the rest of the world. Shamful!

The Great Firewall of China

Eric English, Fort Wayne, IN — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 18:40:17 GMT

It's NOT being defeated or beaten down because that is what the democrats of america want to do here. That is, in their eyes, a beautiful example of the government "HELPING" is people choose do do what is right and keeping them "SAFE" from anything that could harm them. The more government helps the more control they have.
Vote Left = Vote Socialist/Communist. FACT.

The Great Firewall of China

Dean A. Nash, ShenZhen, China — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 18:40:53 GMT

Don't believe everything that you read. Check multiple sources. THINK for yourself. I'm behind the Great Firewall (in ShenZhen) and I just went to www.yahoo.com and typed the two terms ('free speech' and democracy) into yahoo's search engine. Results came up, no problem.

That's not to say that I have never had a problem. It does mean that this article, like most media, can't be trusted as a sole source of information.

China is many things, some good, some bad, some wonderful and some horrible. Just like everywhere else. More importantly, China is changing and getting better ever single day. Don't trust me, come see for yourself.

The Great Firewall of China

Donny Tindle, Richmond, VA — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 18:42:53 GMT

Oh please. You guys act like China is the only country that does this. I dont here the same outcry for the same censorship in Iran, Saudi Arabia or Tunisia.

You want to get all up in arms about this in China but I didn't here the same outcry when Google was asked by the German government to censor some "hate" sites.

I also dont see the outcry in Islamic states such as the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Turkey, Pakistan that censor the internet. In these places sites featuring lingerie, alcohol, drugs, gay or lesbian images, evangelism, sex education, and criticism of Islam are often blocked.

It seems to me that alot of the media like to ignore the crap that the Muslim countries. China doesn't look so bad when you compare it to what Muslim states do.

The Great Firewall of China

Temujin — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 18:45:48 GMT

James, Jim, well said. What worries me is that soon enough this technology will be used in the US.

The Great Firewall of China

James, Denver, CO — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 18:48:48 GMT

It’s ironic how many people advocating "free speech" seem to be advocating a stricter form of censorship. Google, Yahoo and Microsoft all provide a service to the people of China. Their search technology allows people to trade ideas and information. By pulling out of China due to local legal issues and denying the people access to information would be a greater crime by far. It's like saying that people should not be allowed to say anything if you don't allow them to yell out "bomb" on an airplane.

China is not the West, but the internet and western service providers are allowing the Chinese people more freedom than they would otherwise have.

Oh, and if you don't believe that censorship happens in the US, go ahead and try selling narcotics on eBay. I have a feeling that eBay will be more than happy to "censor" your auction on behalf of the government.

Why so many Americans think that other countries laws don’t apply to us is beyond me.

The Great Firewall of China

Gary Schear, Bozeman montana — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 18:50:39 GMT

If these companies so easily aid and abet totalitarian activities from foreign governments then we can all assume they will easily do so here as well. Profit is their only motive. Corporate complicity in the suppression of global human freedom is apparent. We need but wait for the "Reichstag Fire" to see it come out in the open and they will wrap it in the flag and tell us they are protecting our babies.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.
Keep your Eyes wide open everyone!

The Great Firewall of China

Roy, LA, CA — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 18:51:02 GMT

Nah, here they just silently monitor you and wait for you to make a comment that could be considered terrorist, then they ship you off to guantanimo without so much as a prayer you'll be tried by your pears and have the right to prove your innocence.

The Great Firewall of China

Dimples Monterey California — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 18:55:02 GMT

It is and most always will be, about money. Gates why are you appeasing? Google keep up the fight. Why China is keeping citizens down because educated persons alway fight for freedom of thought and expression.MCkenney I agree with boycott.

The Great Firewall of China

Martin Hodo, Salt Lake City, Utah — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 18:56:57 GMT

You cannot control an educated and informed people. That is the greatest fear of the chineese leaders. We need to help in any way that we can the people that are able to get around their censorship.

The Great Firewall of China

LL Fischer — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 19:00:46 GMT

My blog was available several days ago through the Technorati search engine. Following comments on China policies, it was/or is blocked in the US:
http://unityoffaith.spaces.live.com

Also, I've had problems with Yahoo erasing comments that I wrote relative to the seizure of private properties. This was performed, not in China, but in the US, although prior to the passage of private property laws in China purported to give some rights to the Chinese.
I have no idea if that is still the case, if Yahoo is still erasing conversations held in the US.

The Great Firewall of China

Philip, Pocatello, Idaho — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 19:10:04 GMT

Simple Foy: Because it's profitable.

The Great Firewall of China

Bridgettt V. - Houston, TX — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 19:11:54 GMT

"Why are these "good" companies helping China keep their people down?"

Answer: Because money is the root of evil.

The Great Firewall of China

John Doe, Seattle, Wash.):* — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 19:15:36 GMT

I guess all the chat rooms are not monitored outside of China.
Unless you use the B@#* word.
I know, it is only for security reason.

Maybe The Chinese view those words as threat to their national security.

Isn't every government doing the same monitoring?
At least China has gut to do it TRANSPARENTLY. not pretending or sugar-coating it.

The Great Firewall of China

Blair Anderson, Crystal Falls, MI — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 19:20:04 GMT

Funny that few have realized that historically trouble always started with those who restricted their own people's rights, or forced them to worship only one religion. And then there are those that support them economically. As much as I hate it, I will still buy oil until a better alternative is offered. However, I will delete my Yahoo! once I'm done writing this, and (as always) will just as fervently strive to buy products NOT from China. As much as I appreciate their culture, I do not condone their current trends, which include censorship, torture, corruption, pollution on an unchecked and grand scale, subjugating the masses, and forcing their own to work towards a national goal I fear might present itself in the near future, and in a very nasty way.

The Great Firewall of China

EFW Topsfield, MA — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 19:20:43 GMT

In regard to Human Rights, what is the very first Human Right? Answer: enough to eat -- the right not to starve to death. The Chinese have claimed that China has eliminated starvation, and in addition has brought 300,000,000 people out of the poverty level. Sounds like a fine start towards our western standards of Human Rights...

The Great Firewall of China

Ray — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 19:30:50 GMT

I do not agree with China's specific values in regards blocking certain websites, etc. The Chinese "censors" have definitely taken things too far. However, some of the you are hypocritical and unrealistic.

First - many of the "enlightened" ones from the LSOTA (left side of the aisle) routinely accuse the USA (the current administration in particular as well as American corporations), of being rude, arrogant, and insensitive to the mores and values of other countries, cultures, and governments. (Example: Richard Gere's PDA in India). Many from the LSOTA claim we often trample the mores and rights of other cultures.

Well - why don't you respect their values this time. Seems like the "enlightened" ones are flipping on the question of respecting the values of other cultures.

I am not suggesting that the Chinese censors are getting it right, but, they do in fact have the right to monitor and restrict and if any American internet firm wishes to do business in China, then they have to respect Chinese laws. Just like any other American company doing business in China.

Oh - that's right. The "enlightened" ones believe that the media gets specical privileges.

Having spent ~15 months in the past 3 years in China, believe me, the Chinese people are not as naive as many of you think. Thay are aware that media people can be just as greedy and dishonest and manipulative as others. (Example: staging a fake story of putting cardboard in buns!)

You folks need to lighten up. Eventually, the Chinese people will straighten things out and they do not need the LSOTA hypocrites to do their bidding.

The Great Firewall of China

Sean, Torrington CT — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 19:41:12 GMT

The US enforces trade sanctions agains countries who abuse their people far less, but we're just bending over for cheap, dangerous Chinese goods.

It's the hypocracy stupid. But what do you expect when Conservatives/Republicans are in power for 6 years? They have lots of silly religious rules based on the religions of savages...but they don't follow the rules themselves! Can you believe these people want their fairy-tale rules in our secular law?

It's tough to avoid buying Chinese, but my family can afford it.

The funniest part? All the poor Americans who squeal and froth, chins a-jigglin', that they couldn't survive without these cheap goods are the ones being pushed out of jobs by US corporations eager to use cheap Chinese labor.

But I neeeeds mah Wahl-murt.

The Great Firewall of China

Jseo1, FF, California — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 19:41:17 GMT

I think nobody should be able to censor at all. The internet is a collection of thoughts, ideas, and feelings that make it a culture. To censor such a thing is to disable it, make it hop along on one foot. The most pathetic part in my view is that Yahoo supported this. I am definitely going to stop using yahoo mail. Everyone who ever visits the yahoo page is supporting yahoo, and therefore indirectly and unknowingly promoting facism

The Great Firewall of China

William Hughes, Dallas, Tx — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 19:50:01 GMT

Wake up you fools...Every country in the world blocks certain web-sites, even the United States. They want to block talk radio because they don’t agree with what is said. Books are sometimes banned because of their content. People are fired for the common words they say. Before we can start worrying about other countries treatment of their people, look at how we treat our own people first. Like all freedom, the freedom of speech must be used with responsibility. How about thinking about protecting our freedoms.

The Great Firewall of China

Christy Turner, Alberta — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 19:50:23 GMT

Why are they not prohibiting the use of Ebay to sell their knockoff designer items and cheaply constructed brand name items? As a seller I receive hundreds of emails a year from China-based "sellers" who are selling fake Fendis, etc and this isn't blocked. Selective censorship.

The Great Firewall of China

C W — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 19:52:51 GMT

It doesn't matter what they try to do to stop people. Once new techology comes out to try an censor people, its only a matter of days before someone cracks it and exploits it. I do not condone hacking, but when it's to the benefit of the free world, I am all for it!

The Great Firewall of China

AC The PD — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:01:34 GMT

The US is the real terrorists ...

The Great Firewall of China

Bob Ripley — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:02:31 GMT

Chuck in Chicago: I don't know about the U.S. government blocking sites, but I can confirm that my ISP (Cox Communications) blocks certain Eastern European sites.

The Great Firewall of China

Doug, Litchfield, CT. — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:12:14 GMT

The real problem is that we prop up a communist regime by purchasing thier goods at record deficit levels and so the Chinese govenment feels no pressuse to yeild. And as for Roy,...got any proof of that foolish comment, or is that just idiotic ranting.

The Great Firewall of China

darrell forbes — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:15:39 GMT

I can't understand americans,they want the best of both world.China did what america is thinking about doing to mexico.You building a wall stop nothing. It open up other ways like the computers.you right it only take money to get anything over this so it's not really a wall to the outside only to the inside if you know what I mean.

The Great Firewall of China

lei, seattle, wa — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:21:40 GMT

well..i am a chinese. i believe we do have access to CNN. but not MSNBC or Yahoo USA, etc. The democratic process has been very slow in China. Partially because, i think, people are less caring about our political system. China is in a very critical stage at this point. Everyone is joining this giant economic machine and wants to capture the opportunity to make money. When more people are demanding democracy, i believe there will be "supply".

And trust me...chinese people know two party system in the USA, at least most young people do

The Great Firewall of China

Charles B. Hall, Bronx, NY — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:33:04 GMT

Lenin was right when he reportedly said that the capitalists would sell him the rope that he would use to hang them. This is yet another example of this.

The Great Firewall of China

Chad Luciano — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:35:39 GMT

Welcome to the fishbowl.

The Great Firewall of China

john florida — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:39:27 GMT

it's their country and they can deal with it anyway they want. as for chinese products do what i do ask wher what you are buying come from and if they say china don't buy it. we have a grocery store in our town that lists the origin of the food he sells. what he found was that people avoided in this case fish and he stopped bringing it in and that was before the news announced the problems.he now has only american product and they are a little more but they are selling quite well. he's happy were happy and it's a win win. if you start to ask questions where you shop and enough people ask they will change their ways.they still need us to stay in business. so if the government wants to make deals that does not mean we have to agree. better no fish(in this case)than chinese fish.

The Great Firewall of China

World Citizen, California — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:46:19 GMT

I have a response for Dean Nash:
Yes, there is strict censorship in China. I lived in Shanghai for 6 months and I can assure you that what is said in this article is true. I have no idea how you could get search result of "free speech" in China. I couldn't.

Also a response for Donny Tindle:
Censorship appears in every country, just like corruption is a universal problem. The main issue is how bad the censorship is rather than the existence of it. Would you agree that blocking Wikipedia is worse than blocking alcohol use?

Sorry that I had to use a fake name since I visit China quite often.

The Great Firewall of China

Bill Nelson, Ft Worth, TX — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:50:22 GMT

My response would be C(can't use that word) E(that word is in review, not permitted at this time) N(nope) S(stopped) U(under scrutiny) R(really! you know better) E(still in review) D(directing security forces to you home at this time)

I certainly agree we should respect the laws of the countries we elect to do business in. But, I personally would have a problem electing to do that. Maybe I'm just a 'stick my head in the sand' kind of guy, but better that than contributing to their oppression. Information is growing at an astonishing rate and it is reaching those countries. They will have it regardless of what the government does, eventually. And the government will change as a result.

The Great Firewall of China

China Critic, Oakland, CA — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 21:42:04 GMT

What if most Americans are against Christianity and do many kinds of things to insult the religion? Will our government censor that? If not, then why compare Muslim states to China when people feel their religion is insulted and theatened, while the only reason for the Chinese government to censor its people is to hold onto power and be a repressive regime without fearing global outcry by appearing to be protecting China and its people and in the name of national security (national security for the elite members of the communist party, not the people). Of course, there are nations who censor on the basis of political considerations, but that is not on a scale as that of China. Having repressed and killed hundreds or even thousands of people in the 1980's, especially during the Tainsmen square pro-democracy demonstrations, China remains the world's top censor of people's natural right to speak freely, and the only way for the government to maintain communism and continue the path of repression is to censor anything the hyopcrtes of the communist government does not want to hear. Down with communism. Hey, don't forget our country's own history of censorship. Hopefully our politicians will one day turn against American corporations, or else the world will be a censored one where everyone will be muzzled.

The Great Firewall of China

Nanson Hwa — Wed, 01 Aug 2007 00:32:15 GMT

The United States is a market forced/consumer orientated society and our political system is established to protect that system. American consumers, the vast majority of middle classs and below do not care where the product comes from as long as it works, has quality and can be bought at a reasonable price. Who is making the windfall profits are the overseas multinational corporations and the politicians who introduce legislation to protect industries related to foreign and domestic trade.
Censorship and secrecy are weapons used to suppress both good and bad social contaminants for the general welfare of the state.

The Great Firewall of China

Dean A. Nash, ShenZhen, China — Wed, 01 Aug 2007 04:43:58 GMT

Blair Anderson, you missed my point, which was, the trends of China today are excellent. The people are freer, richer, and better educated. Not only that, but for pretty much all of the country's citizens, their entire lives have been buffeted by change. Of course, a lot of that was negative - the wars, 'revolutionary' programs, etc... - but it was change, nonetheless. And through it all, the Chinese people have adapted and, for the past 25 years under a capitalist system, dare I say, thrived.

Here's but one quick example. About 3 years ago, one peasant was stopped by police - they wanted to see his travel permit, which was their right and actually, responsibility - and as so often happens around the world, the police ended up abusing their power, and the poor peasant ended up being brutally beaten to death. The national congress responded, in the BEST IMAGINABLE WAY, by simply eliminating the travel permits. Yes, they granted the people the right to travel freely. No, us westerners might think that this is no big deal, but stop and think about it. First, the government recognized the abuse of power. Second, the government voluntarily stripped itself of some of that power - in order to make the citizens lives better. That is a positive trend. I have seen many other examples of positive change during my last 4.5 years here.

Like I said, come see for yourself.

The Great Firewall of China

Dean A. Nash, ShenZhen, China — Wed, 01 Aug 2007 04:51:31 GMT

World Citizen, I don't know about ShangHai, but I do know about my home. Yes, sometimes sights are blocked - wikipedia was blocked for most of the past 2 years. Most often, I can access anything, including coverage of the Tiananmen Tragedy. Right this second, I'm reading (and responding) to this negative (critical) webpage.

An interesting aside, Jimmy Wales, its founder, refused to cooperate with Chinese censors and I disagreed with him. Today, it would appear that he has 'won', as the site is accessible. However, the main reason that I took him to task was because, at the same time that he was refusing to 'appease' China's regulators, he was conducting other web business in China, albeit through his 'for profit' company.

The Great Firewall of China

Patrick Fuller Niagara Falls New York — Wed, 01 Aug 2007 19:14:14 GMT

Well lets think about it. Every day we sit and complain about China, how they dip live animals in boiling oil to strip the fur off before they are cleaned alive,they continue to send us poison food, they are killing the environment,and corporate America is giving them all of our jobs, and yet we still support them every time we buy something.

The Great Firewall of China

Patrick Fuller Niagara Falls New York — Wed, 01 Aug 2007 19:57:09 GMT

I am hoping someone can clear something up for me. Americans are not permitted to travel to Cuba, or buy Cuban products because they are a communist country. If i'm not mistaken China is a communist country,HMMMM. Not too long ago if a person was thought to be a supporter of the communist he or she was put on trial in this country. American corporations that are helping China grow by leaps and bounds should probably be considered communist supporters, or maby I'm looking at it the wrong way.

The Great Firewall of China

Dean A. Nash, ShenZhen, China — Thu, 02 Aug 2007 03:09:58 GMT

Mr. Fuller, you've got it right. America has done lots of crazy things in history, both ancient and recent. Still, that doesn't make it right. In many respects, China is more Capitalist than America. But so what if it wasn't? I don't believe in Communism - I'm a Libertarian - but I also don't believe that Communists, nor their supporters, belong in jail. Do you? Because you imply that you do.

And another thing, regarding the Cuban embargo, how's that worked out? Let's see, Castro is fast closing in on 50 years of power. Embargoes only hurt the poor, not the powerful. When will we ever learn?

Lastly, by all means, if you have a problem with China, don't buy her products. Freedom is great, but it does come with responsibilities.

The Great Firewall of China

Chinese — Thu, 02 Aug 2007 22:43:04 GMT

I find it funny how all of my fellow Chinese express little or no concern over the issue, at least compare to the World Police. Lei is right. The current Chinese government, like most of the Chinese governments over the past 5000 years, believe in "manadate of heaven", which basically says that you need the people on your side. If we decide that the political structure is too much of a concern, WE, not you guys, would step up and fix it. Trust me, we can do it very well. The last thing we want is foreign intervention. Right now, 1.2Billion out of the 1.3 people we have are much more concerned about the economy, and at least 1 billion of us are happy that the system IS changing, though not as fast as YOU Americans would like. We are happy. Let us be. If we need help, (which we wont), we'll give you a call.

By the way, no, the government does NOT block international calls....or monitor them. No PATRIOT act here.

Oh, and for those of you who think US has no censorship, look right above the message box where you are to type your comment, doesn't it say "All comments must be approved before appearing in the thread"? I dont think THAT is what our government is doing, now is it?