Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

Cato — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 22:39:27 GMT

The spectators were from "Taiwan" and are "Taiwanese" spectators not "Chinese Taipei" spectators.

It is more than past time that the team, journalists, and spectators alike should stop respecting the demand of China to force everyone to curtsy to their political agenda.

China ought to be acting as a host nation and ought not to be allowed to act in the exercise of such obligations as an authoritarian manipulator--a bully.

The Taiwan team ought to have been allowed their own name and flag.

The notion that these Olympic Games are apolitical is patently absurd, from renaming teams and disallowing national flags to beating journalists and stealing their equipment and film the Chinese are dictating a lot to the world. They are dictating how we speak about or do not speak about issues which they seek to control.

Is anyone considering future implications of blind acceptance of their demands on these small issues? What does it portend for future large issues? Thus, through uncritical acquiescence have we collectively begun down a slippery slope.

One might also consider what the reception of the Taiwanese Olympic team might have been like if their presidential election result were reversed. Would there be so many smiles, or would they have sat at home after insisting on being able to choose their own flag and name?

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

dan byl, topeka, ks — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 23:38:42 GMT

saw a great documentary on the development of the chineese team on pbs hd thursday evening. they have come a long way over a couple of years as a team. if you get a chance, watch. high quality.

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

Madhu — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 00:49:22 GMT

As a neutral observer, why is Taiwan not recognized by China? Don't they have enough people to manage now?

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

Howard Johnson — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 02:00:49 GMT

Taiwan sent a high alert on suicide attempts would happen within this week.
#1 reason: Baseball lost to China in Olympics.
#2 reason: Long time under corruption rumor's of ex-president Chen ShuBien offered an apology to his supporters on $30M money laundary which currently is freezed by Swiss bank. His son and daughter in-law escaped to US.

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

John Smith — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 03:45:20 GMT

Good article explaining that Taiwan was never part of modern China, but this passage is less than accurate...

"Relations have improved between the two sides of late as a result of China’s efforts to be a good neighbor ahead of the games, as well as Taiwan’s new President Ma Ying-jeou who has taken a more moderate stance towards Taiwan’s independence."

Ma Ying-jeou is a puppet, much like Bush. The reality is that the old-guard Nationalist party members in Taiwan have reached back-room deals with the communist party in China long ago. The KMT are selling Taiwan out with great abandonment. Taiwan is getting nothing out of the "warmer" relations with China -- unless you include the 5% wealthy that are feeding off of the low-wage workers in China. Overwhelmingly, the Taiwanese do not want to be part of China. Annexation is not a desired goal.

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

Richard, Washington, USA — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 04:16:47 GMT

Notice how all quotes you have seen from Taiwanese indicate that they do not want to unite with China. The only comments about being "one" and "family" are those coming from China, and the few old-guard KMT, including Wu Poh-Hsiung, who we all know are pro-unification.

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

Jim Leader, Seattle — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 07:37:31 GMT

Olympic ticketing scandals and faked opening ceremonies pale in comparison to the embarrassment China will face over near future political events in Taiwan. The scales are finally tipping toward demanding the respect their democracy deserves internationally, with Georgia and a coming rebuke of Putin also to be thanked.

The Chinese people will see and ultimately respect Taiwan standing up. The Chinese Communist Party will finally be blamed for serving themselves before their people. Taiwan and the world are in Beijing to light the fire.

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

Mister Jimmy Brunswick, GA — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 11:17:14 GMT

All you right wing kooks to the contrary, Formosa (Taiwan) has been a province of China for centuries and still is, no matter what anyone says. What if there is someday 'regime change' on the mainland and a far-right gang takes power--like in the US? Will Taiwan then again become 'one' with their brethren in Beijing? Your silly-minded opinions mean zip in the face of historic reality.

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

Tim Hanks, Norfolk, Virginia — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 14:29:57 GMT

LOL! It is funny about China. Didn't the first emperor of China established the first boundaries of what would be China and didn't these boundaries not include Taiwan, Tibet, Inner Mongolia, Manchuria, and East Turkistan. Is that suppose to be China? Why the sudden change? Why increase China's boundaries over what wasn't originally China?

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

Ada,Atlanta — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 14:34:27 GMT

To Cato:

Do you know Taiwan's official name? It is Republic of China. ROC included both Taiwan and the Mainland(now People's Republic of China).

So "Chinese Taipei" is a proper name for Taiwan team now.

And it might be an ambition for the politicians and the people in Taiwan to unify the whole China including Taiwan and the mainland too.

It seems most Taiwanese are happy with "Chinese Taipei", why you are worried?

Subconsciously, you hope People's Republic of China is seperate from Taiwan, but unfortunately, that might not the idea of people from both Taiwan and the mainland. People are happy together as they are considered themselves brothers and sisters even though that is beyond your understanding! So get a life and respect the fact!

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

Paul Revere, Boston — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 16:21:28 GMT

I am surprised and disappointed that Taiwan's baseball fans, while attending their team's baseball game vs China, didn't pull out of their pockets the TRUE national flag of Taiwan and start waving them during the game. Maybe they didn't want to be thrown out and beaten up like mere news reporters! Shame on China for trying to manipulate and massage the overall image they want to project out to the world. But thru their actions,they have actually sent out a clean MESSAGE to the rest of the world that they won't hesitate to be ruthless not only with all things Olypmic, but in their long-range global qoals.

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

TruthandConsequence — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 17:11:21 GMT

Taiwan is not a break away province and did not create the schism with the mainland. An accurate history is that Taiwan was (and still is) an integrated part of the Republic of China which has a de jure claim and up until the end of 1949 a de facto claim to all of the mainland, hainan, and taiwan. It was the Chinese Communist Party's civil war against the Chinese Government which conquered the mainland, but never Taiwan, which split Taiwan away from the mainland. The Republic of China government was never conquered and still survives on Taiwan. The article's communist centered optic is a disservice to understanding the complicated history of the last 60 years.

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

Justin, Texas — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 20:00:13 GMT

Taiwan Independence is becoming nothing more than empty rhetoric especially as of late. Actually find it funny the man who championed it, pretty much damaged the movement the most, Chen Shui Bien. Taiwan during the 80s had hoped Japan would support Taiwan's economy and sovereignty, and after the Asia crash turned to present turned towards the USA for that help. Yet both are either unable or unwilling to do so and now the KMT and DDP are forced to turn to the Mainland. It has no other choices, come to terms with the Mainland or watch its economy deteriorate even more.

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

Hum S Lowe, Stockton CA — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 01:26:02 GMT

I totally agree with John Smith that "Overwhelmingly, the Taiwanese do not want to be part of China. Annexation is not a desired goal." And "Ma Ying-jeou is a puppet" & The KMT are selling Taiwan out with great abandonment."

It is sad but true that US is also selling out her most loyal ally down to the drain.

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

tom tilden auburn pa — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 01:33:58 GMT

Baseball what a mediator it can be !!!!

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

chi — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 02:15:18 GMT

Taiwan was, is and will always be part of China.

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

Erewhile — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 05:31:27 GMT

It's funny that when Taiwanese people elected a pro-China president he became a puppet in the eyes of some.

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

lemoncritic — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 06:12:22 GMT

Don't care which team win the game, as long as one of these two teams win a medal.

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

Paul, California, proud Taiwanese-American — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 08:50:49 GMT

Just because the U.S. was part of Britain, Spain, France, Russia, and Mexico, doesn't mean it should go back.

Neither should Taiwan go back to China. The current government never controlled Taiwan, just as the current government doesn't have true claims to Tibet.

Nationalist pride is all nice, you Chinese mainlanders, but your pride comes at the price of other people's lives and futures and hopes for their children. Isn't that sick and disgusting, you mainlanders, to feed off such pride?

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

Tainan. Taiwan — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 10:17:59 GMT

John Smith,
Were you born,have lived and educated in Taiwan? How much did you know about Taiwan? Please do not impose your ideology to us (Taiwanese). You do not represent us and you are just another vocal GDFI. Your view is the typical aggression behavior of the West, who has consistently murdered,rob, slaved millions under the name of democracy,human rights,equal opportunity and affirmative actions. I am proud that China is raising and stands up the aggression. Tibet,Mongolia, and Taiwan are parts of the Republic of China!

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

Naruwa, MD — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 15:03:48 GMT

Taiwanese are Taiwanese by nationality. They are Chinese only by race.
China was never our mainland or motherland. It is only used in Chinese media. It is true that when we were educated k-12, we were taught to become a good citizen of China and Mainland Chinese was part of our "country", aka ROC, under the influence of KMT (Chinese ppl in Taiwan). Now since the rise of China and the successful almighty image built of Communist, it is ridiculous to still educate our next taiwanese generation that ROC is still the sovereign of China. KMT or ROC has no power in China is a fact. Same as Taiwan was never part of communist ruled China. I do not understand why we need to pass on such a out-of-date/ made-believe story and disgusting lie.

Seriously, I used to believe China was part of Taiwan until surprisingly discovered that what we were taught was pitiful brainwash.

I congratulate the success of China but I am still a proud Taiwanese.

Taiwan belongs to the Taiwanese people.
We love Taiwan and have faith in Taiwan.

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

Tsou — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 15:38:29 GMT

Taiwan is a part of China, Taiwanese is Chinese, Once is, and the furture will also be.

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

tonye irvine california — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 15:43:15 GMT

Sorry about that loss for the "renegade" province.

If we allowed the creation of the Czech and Slovak republics and the rebalkanization of central Europe, what's wrong with a democratic Republic of China?

What's different between the wishes of self determination of the people of the ROC and those in the Ukraine?

Time to stop kissing them Mainland Chinese butts, eh? We should not base our politics on what Walmart needs.

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

John K, Orlando, FL — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 16:15:38 GMT

"It seems most Taiwanese are happy with "Chinese Taipei"; why are you worried."

Funny how my wife and her best friend, both Taiwanese natives, aren't happy with the nickname.

It really doesn't matter whether Taiwan is an historic province of China or not. Until China becomes a truly free society, allowing real protests, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and freedom of religion, they have no claim to Taiwan. Only when they truly implement those does any historic claim to Taiwan have any relevance. If China wants a democratic Taiwan under its wings, it needs to become democratic too.

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

bleh — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 19:22:15 GMT

Taiwan is a part of China... The Republic of China, the true China, not the one ruled by communist insurgents.

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

Gordon Hsu, Fremont CA — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 19:33:05 GMT

This is interesting to see some of you talk about Taiwan as if you know the Chinese living there better than themselves. My grandparents originally moved from China to Taiwan during the civil war as they were part of the KMT. My parents were born during that trek. Some 28 years later, I was born in Taiwan and lived there for the first 12 years of my life before moving to the U.S. for the past 20. I still have about a dozen family members in Taiwan and have a lot of Taiwanese friends here in the U.S. What's the point of all this? Well, I think I would know the mentality of the Chinese/Taiwanese people far more than some of you people would.

Here's a crash course about recent Taiwanese history from the eyes of the Chinese people (the only relevent view point if any of you care to respect the right of self determination). There are actually 2 competing opinions in Taiwan at work. One is the KMT and the mainland transplants. The other being the DPP and the native Taiwanese (or the long ago transplanted Fujianese, whichever you want to call it). The disagreement between these two groups was the main factor fueling the independence debate for the past 20 years on the Taiwan side.

The KMT never sought for Taiwan independence because it saw itself as the legitimate government for all of China. This changed when the first president of Taiwan, Lee Teng Hui of KMT tried to advance the independence issue stealthily as to not anger his party, a fact he has admitted in public. Then came Chen Shui Bien and the DPP which brought Taiwan to the edge of economic ruin, not to mention rampent corruption. His rhetoric regarding Taiwan independence were appealing to the native Taiwanese at first but it soon got tiresome due to his hardline approach. Many Chinese/Taiwanese finally realized that in order to thrive, they would need to work with China economically. Ma Ying Jeou was elected as a result. Many Chinese/Taiwanese also see cooperation with China is preferable at this point considering the recent deterioration of relations with Japan due to the territorial disputes over Diaoyutai Islands. This is a situation that could lead to open military confrontation and if that comes to pass, whatever love Japan and Taiwan had between them would evaporate in an instant.

The fact is, while many Chinese/Taiwanese in Taiwan does not want unification with China right now, they also see it as inevitable down the road. Just like North/South Korea, East/West Germany, and so on. About the only people in Taiwan that are staunchly loyal to the idea of no re-unification ever are the hardline DPP supporters (vast majority are native Taiwanese) but they are a minority. Oh and how can I forget the indignant outsiders who feel that they should control the destiny of China and Taiwan with their invaluable opinions. The bottome line is that in 20 years when the current PRC ruling generation bows out and a more liberated group takes over, who knows what can happen. It certainly would not surprise me in the least bit if China and Taiwan decides to go ahead with the re-unification.

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

Gordon Hsu, Fremont CA — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 19:49:34 GMT

Tim Hanks: Are you really using the territorial map from 4000 years ago as the basis for your opinions? Let me ask you this then. By your standards, shouldn't most of the nations in the world save Rome, Greece, and Egypt not be allowed to keep their present day territories since heck, they didn't even exist as a nation back then? The silliness in your argument is astounding.

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

Gordon Hsu — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 19:53:36 GMT

On another note Tim, when America was first established as a nation, was Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Guam and all the land west of the Mississippi part of it's national boundry? I didn't think so. If China isn't allowed to keep it's territorial integrity, you better be willing for America to give the same concession too. Unless of course, you prefer to be a hypocrite and there is no opinion that is more valuable than that of a hypocrites *snicker*.

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

S. Chuang, Taipei, Taiwan — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 22:10:20 GMT

I live in Taiwan, not China. We are Taiwanese, not Chinese. We speak Taiwanese (Hoklo), not Chinese. Politics (and politicians) are fickle, but the people of Taiwan know what they are -- Taiwanese, through and through.

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

Matt B Cedar City, Utah — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 22:46:35 GMT

I find the comments here emulate the intellegence and knowledge of the commentor. I lived in Taiwan for almost two years, I speak the language. TAIWAN does not want to join the mainland period. Taiwan has a booming economy and has helped the mainland develop thiers. Jimmy (the coward) Carter sold out Taiwan in the 70 there was rioting in the streets, because they knew what that could possibly mean to thier freedoms. We seem to take freedom for granted as evidenced by comments here. While traveling in the Mainland a few years back citizens were amazed that we could travel to the next COUNTY without having "papers", amazed that we could switch jobs without permission of the local communist bosses. Taiwan has thrived with a some what free market system, Mainland China has only thrived once they implimented free market "Zones".

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

X, Dallas, Texas — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 23:01:53 GMT

To Ada,

Taiwanese are generally not happy with "Chinese Taipei."

Unfortunately, most Taiwanese do not wish to unify with their "brothers" in China. Does the United States wish to unite with its "brothers" in Europe?

Please do not generalize on what is obviously beyond your understanding. Especially not in an article that a Taiwanese person may chance to read.

Respect the facts; don't make them up.

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

DAI — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 23:38:22 GMT

CHINA COMMUNIST LEADERS HAVE OWNED A BIG COUNTRY, A SMALL ISLAND ADDED TO IT DOSEN'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENT. PLEASE LET THEM BE WHAT THEY WANT TO BE.

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

David Powell, Ocean City, NJ — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 23:51:15 GMT

Taiwan is an independent nation and it is time for the world to call it such.

We've just seen that a small nation trying to stay a democracy next to a large non-democratic nation that wants its territory is in need of all the help it can get, and that staying out of the situation is asking for trouble down the road.

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

Kate — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 02:45:09 GMT

To Ada,
How can you possible know if the Taiwanese people are happy? Would they struggle to be independent if they were happy with their current situation, don't assume! As a side note please correct your grammar!
GO TAIPEI!

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

Jake, Sandusky, Ohio — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 05:58:10 GMT

I feel that the future of Taiwan should be decided by the Taiwanese-ha can spell that. The people of Taiwan have lived apart from China for too long to be forced to become a province again. The decision shouldnt belong to the Chinese, the IOC, or the U.S. Self Determination should and will be the ultimate solution. Its also important to note that i have a friend from taiwan who doesnt think of herself as Chinese anti-communist, but as a Taiwanese citizen. It should be up to people like her to decide her homelands future.

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

Tainan, Taiwan — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 13:58:52 GMT

They call themselves "Taiwanese" but they are not the original Taiwanese but those "Minan" speaking Chinese who killed millions of aborigines and rob their land of aborigines before other immigrants from China. They gain power and claim they are Taiwanese and wants to dictate the rest of minorities and split our unity using the name of democracy and human rights--as the White man has done. They force us to speak their dialect and ignore our existence just as another dictator and authoritarian government and are worse than KMT or the Communist in China. Arm yourself, fight and die for your freedom from these corrupted Minan dictators and lairs!

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

Ada, Atlanta — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:49:49 GMT

Kate:

Whether or not the Taiwanese are happy with the name" Chinese Taipei", some Americans are not happy with the name as you hope China is split from Taiwan.

Taiwan's official name is "Republic of China", and Taiwan is just a part of ROC officially. What better name you can give Taiwan apart from 'Chinese Taipei"?

I saw signs in Taiwan that read" ROC Taiwan District".

It might be an ambition that ROC wants to include People's Republic of China under ROC in the future,whhich most mainlanders wouldn't oppose. So let the Chinese from Taiwan and the mainland decide their own fate and things might not go your direction unfortunately.

If China sent troops to the US to split NYC from the US, and in 50 years, some people from NYC wanted to establishh a different country called" New York City". I wonder how most Americans would think of that?

That was what happened with Taiwan. In 1946 during the China civil war, the US sent the 7th Fleet to Taiwan Straits to split Taiwan from China and kept the two apart ever since, but the people of China never granted it. That means the split was against most Chinese people's will and that has nothing to do with dictatorship or not. It is all about a country's sovereignty.

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

100%Made In Taiwan — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:42:27 GMT

I'm from Taiwan, therefore I am Taiwanese.
How can Taiwan be a Province of China when we have our own president, own flag, own anthem, own language, and our own traditions?
China must get over themselves and stop trying to bully Taiwan. Just because we are a smaller country doesan't mean we can't be a country. Ever heard the saying Dynamite comes in small packages?

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

Chowu ToFu, Orlando, FL — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 04:56:44 GMT

Luckily, UK is no where near bully as PRC; otherwise, Americans would considered British. Fortunetly, the independence of USA has been establised, and UK government does not twist the fact and history like Great Almighty China did, thus, the USA never considered as a united provinces of UK...

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

lemoncritic — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 02:10:19 GMT

Taiwan is nothing when the US sells them out, that'll be soon.

Taiwan rivalry takes to the baseball field

ejacks, oakland USA — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 22:38:40 GMT

The US supported the Republic of China government on Taiwan during the cold war.

Ma Ying Jou, who supported EVENTUAL reunification,
won the election over the pro-independence candidate
so there you have it.