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Highly touted, but misguided ideas about Afghanistan

Posted: Friday, October 30, 2009 12:12 PM
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I’ve spent much of the past two weeks – some in New York and the rest in Los Angeles – listening to the pundits and experts talk about the war in Afghanistan. From the Sunday morning network round tables to the Saturday evening interviews on National Public Radio, I’ve enjoyed a lot of good debate, from both sides of the issue. I’ve also heard quite a few jaw-droppers.

Here are five popular ideas on the war, the strategy, the nation and the people of Afghanistan – which those of us who spend years reporting from the region find a little misguided.

1) Afghanistan is like Vietnam. It will turn into a quagmire, and lead to another ignominious defeat for the U.S.

This is a favorite argument among left-leaning pundits, but while Afghanistan’s remoteness may smack of Vietnam, there is a big difference: This is no war of national liberation, embraced by a whole population.

If there’s a national "idea" sweeping Afghanistan it isn’t freedom from Western colonialists, its freedom from 30 years of conflict. 

Image:
SLIDESHOW: On the front lines in Afghanistan
Many Afghans will no doubt continue to sit on the fence until they can see a clear victor – coalition forces or the Taliban. But the vast majority of Afghans do not want a return to the hellish years of the Taliban regime.

They’re willing to give coalition forces a chance if that can bring peace to their lives, without fear of revenge attacks or recrimination by the Taliban. That yearning for something other than the Taliban, is one key plus for those who argue that the war is still "winnable." 

2) Afghanistan is like Iraq. A strong, bold surge of U.S. forces will lead to a "tipping point" in the war there as it did in Iraq. So we should go in big now.

Those on the right side of the political spectrum love this argument. Not so fast. It’s true the surge in Iraq brought breathing space, especially to Iraqis in Baghdad (where most U.S. soldiers "surged to"). And it sent out signals to Sunni tribesmen in Anbar province that the Americans were serious about the fight.

But there are few, if any, positive signs that a similar surge of U.S. forces might trigger a rising up of some local militia, a kind of "Sons of Afghanistan," against the Taliban. In fact, U.S. commanders go to great lengths to deny involvement in the only anti-Taliban militia, the "Peoples Protection Force" based in Wardak province, calling it an "entirely Afghan project" (even though the trainers are U.S. Special Forces).

And that’s because, in a nation of warring tribes, this experimental militia has had little success: Local Pashtuns have been unwilling to join forces against fellow Pashtun Taliban in Wardak.

Whereas Iraq saw a Sunni uprising against al-Qaida, there’s no such unity of purpose among Afghan tribes, some of whom attack U.S. forces primarily because their tribal rivals have struck deals with the same U.S. units. How do you reach a "tipping point" in a land where tribes are still killing each other over blood feuds that can date back centuries?

VIDEO: New evidence shows Taliban, 9/11 link


3) The Taliban is fighting a local jihad and poses no threat to the U.S. We should focus our troops and resources on al-Qaida, which poses a direct threat from inside Pakistan, and disregard Afghanistan.

This is probably not a good idea. First, al-Qaida and the hard core Taliban share the same ideology: they want to impose strict Islamic religious law or sharia law. The Taliban’s goal is to spread sharia law regionally, while al-Qaida wants to spread it globally and kill all infidels along the way.

It doesn’t matter if they are Afghan Taliban, Pakistani Taliban, foreign fighters, or former Afghan mujahedeen commanders like Jalaluddin Haqqani (based in Pakistan’s tribal North Waziristan) or Gulbuddin Hekmetyar (inside Afghanistan proper). They are all part of a holy warrior network supported by al-Qaida money, camps and expertise.

Secondly, these jihadists make no distinction between Afghanistan and Pakistan. For them it’s a battle over the land of Pashtuns or "Pashtunistan" – the area that straddles the boundary line drawn by the British in 1893 between what is now Pakistan and Afghanistan – which they have never recognized.

Al-Qaida moves foreign fighters – Uzbeks, Chechens, Arabs – in and out of this remote, amorphous land. Along the porous border with Pakistan, I’ve heard U.S. forces pick up a stream of languages – not just Urdu from Pakistani fighters, but Arabic and Uzbek, as well as the Dari and Pashto of local Taliban – in intercepted radio transmissions. In fact, Afghan officials now estimate there are at least 4,000 foreign fighters, supported by al-Qaida, inside Afghanistan. And there are perhaps more on the way: police recently broke up an al-Qaida ring in Morocco that was preparing to send fighters to Afghanistan.

And in the same breath, Afghan Taliban commanders pledge allegiance to al-Qaida’s number one, Osama bin Laden, and Taliban leader Mullah Mohamed Omar.

In other words, the Taliban and al-Qaida are blood brothers on the same holy battlefield. So, targeting al-Qaida in Pakistan, while tolerating the Taliban in Afghanistan, looks like a losing strategy. Doing so, it seems, would only create a larger safe haven for al-Qaida and the Taliban, while destabilizing the whole region.

Image: Major Shannon Cole
SLIDESHOW: Saving lives behind the front lines
4) Sending more troops for counter-insurgency and more civilian experts for nation-building is a waste of time and resources if there’s no national afghan leader in place.

This may seem like a solid point, but think again. In reality, there has never been a tradition of strong central government in Afghanistan.

When I spoke to tribal elders in Helmand province just before the Aug. 20 elections, many told me they had never even seen a politician from Kabul before. In Afghanistan, politics are truly local. District and provincial councilmen are the powerbrokers whose faces matter to most Afghans, not President Hamid Karzai or his rival candidate in the run-off elections Abdullah Abdullah.

U.S. military and aid officials certainly get that. Since 2006, they’ve directly invested millions of dollars in discretionary funds into local programs, like alternative farming or the opening of schools and clinics, all on the village level, thus circumventing the corruption-tainted government. Their logic? Seven years of failed top-down reconstruction has turned Afghanistan into one of the donor world’s deepest money pits.

So, while the West rightly hopes for a legitimate Afghan leader back in Kabul, some local programs are making a difference on the ground. It may be surprising, but progress is possible without a presidential fiat…or even a president.

5) From Alexander the Great to Barack Obama, no foreign occupier or invader has ever defeated the Afghans. History, in Afghanistan, repeats itself, and the country is a living graveyard of foreign intervention.

Well, not exactly. In fact the British Army resoundingly defeated the Afghan tribes in the 2nd Anglo-Afghan War of 1878, only to be withdrawn by myopic British ministers back in New Delhi and London.

But that’s not the point. History really doesn’t repeat itself. Only the conditions for success or failure do. And it’s perhaps worth remembering that, throughout the annals of the so-called "Great Game" (the period in the nineteenth and early twentieth century when the British Empire and the Russian Empire battled for control over Central Asia) those foreign nations had only their own self-interests at heart. The needs – or wishes – of the Afghans themselves never mattered. 

But this time the Afghan people do matter. In a counterinsurgency, as Gen. Stanley McChrystal, the commander of U.S. and NATO forces in Afghanistan, would no doubt argue, it’s the Afghan people who must rise up against the Taliban. And the only reason they would do so is because they’ve gained something – security or a better life – which they don’t want to lose. The challenge, of course, is convincing the Afghans that, this time, it’s not the same old story.

Jim Maceda is an NBC News foreign correspondent based in London who has reported from Afghanistan extensively since the U.S. invasion in 2001. He is currently on home leave in the United States.

See more of NBC's Nightly News with Brian Williams reporting from Afghanistan this week.

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Comments

You dont' get it.  This may help you understand: http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/10/counterinsurgency_doctrine_and.html
Jim Maceda seems far too level headed and reasonable to be working for NBC News. He understands that the outcome in Afghanistan is of great importance to the radical Islamic war for world domination. He knows that if the civilized world cuts and runs, that it would be a huge notch on the gun barrel of Islamo-fascism. And he feels strongly that the terrorists can and must be defeated. Jim Maceda, thank you for setting the record straight. I only hope that President Obama reads your article.
You miss the point.  The Taliban was never a threat to outside countries before 9/11 and will never have the resources to be a threat beyond their own borders.  The world didn't care how hellish their government was to its people when they were in power.  Their fundamental mistake was allowing Al-Qaida to pitch tents in their country.  
Good analysis.  I just returned from Zabul Afghanistan last summer after spending a year there working with the US Army.  Solid points on the "fence sitters" and the lack of presence in the provinces of a national gov't.  I've interviewed numerous villagers who overwhelmingly state they'd like help from their central gov't.  They are tired of war and don't care much for the Taliban.  Unless we figure out a way to establish good local governance and security for the people, nothing is going to change there.  Maybe in addition to training more Afghan police and soldiers, we focus on developing and training local Afghans on good governance.  
Afghanistan is not like Vietnam or Iraq, but that doesn't matter. All we need to do is look at the Soviet experience in Afghanistan to know what we are in for. After eight years of a futile war, at least the Soviets had enough sense to leave. I doubt Americans will listen to a word the Russians say about that conflict, but they know much better than we do it's a wasted effort.
This is great insight and shows that someone has taken an interest in learning about what really matters in this country. I have a friend who works at the MOI in Kabul, has been there for longer than he would like to be away from his family, but he too believes it is the deeds that we do there not the war that we fight that will put a desire to have a better world and protect it from the Taliban. But there is much work to do and the Americans have little commitment to long hauls. Like everything else the politians touch if we let them make the decisions the Afgans and Americans will lose, lesson #2 Somalia!
What defines a quagmire?  We have been in Afghanistan  almost as long as we were in Vietnam.  In spite of our 'good intentions' can the US continue to do it essentially on our own?  Can we afford it economically and morally?  Do the Afghani people not want to go back to the "hellish Taliban regime bad enough.  Do we really understand the Afghani people?  I do not believe we will ever defeat the Taliban and the tribes on the ground, the enjoy the luxury of 'Home Field'  
I am not sure your analysis gives any hope or suggests a workable strategy one way or another.  Even if we launched a massive offensive against the Taliban in Afghanistan, wouldn't we just be driving them into nuclear armed Pakistan?  Just today Pakistan is complaining about predator strikes there.  We need to work on developing solid partnerships before we start blowing stuff up.
It's interesting to hear people say the "surge" in Iraq helped turn things around.  Ridiculous.  The "surge" added 30,000 troops because Secretary Rumsfeld, in his "go in light" concept, sent too few troops in the first place.  His concept in Iraq was a failure as it understaffed the force required to occupy the country, especially after the bonehead decision to dismiss the Iraqi Army instead of disarming it of heavy weapons so it could safely help with policing.  The truth of the surge is the pre-war planning failed and only an emergency action later, namely adding 30,000 more troops, fixed that failure.

Another issue not spoken of often in Afghanistan war discussions is the fact no one has stated what "victory" truly is.  There will not be a surrender ceremony as we saw on the deck of the USS Missouri since we're not fighting against a country.  So what measures outline the milestones on the road to "victory" and actual "victory"?  No one on the left or the right can truly say beyond the trite phrase of "defeat Al Qaeda".

Finaly, President Obama needs to address the Islamic Conference and clearly state, "You cannot hate any country including the United States and say you want peace or even respect.  You cannot protect terrorists as guests and expect you will not be be attacked for harboring terrorists.  And if a country will not destroy terrorists in their midsts who are bent on destroying their country or other counties, then that country is nothing more than an accomplice to terrorism."
Just get out of the middle east and ban any visitors from Islamic countries! Ban Muslims from entering the US! If they want to kill us when we go there it is time to ban them from our soil forever! Make it a terrorist act punishable by death for a Muslim to enter the US!
I can't help but recall Colin Powell's "Pottery Barn" quote to Bush (re: invading Iraq): "…if you break it you own it." Seems that, like it or not, we now "own" Afghanistan (with all due respect to the NATO nations)...

Suffice it to say that I have serious concerns about both the effectiveness and catastrophic costs of a wildly interventionist foreign policy. While proponents of the Iraq "surge" point to that endeavor as being successful, one can legitimately argue that the trillion Dollars spent (future $1.5-to-$2 trillion est.) cast doubts on the Iraq war as having been worthwhile.

For the purposes of analysis, let's assume total success in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan in a few years. Is terrorism officially defeated at that point (mission accomplished)? What If another government should fall (let's say Somalia or Sudan or Malaysia) and becomes a host/base for terrorism? Should the U.S. military then rip out and replace the existing institutions and infrastructure in that country too? And at what cost in people and treasure? Where does it all end?

At what point do we as a nation stop raising the flag, singing the national anthem and saying "God bless our troops" whenever the issue of military intervention in the affairs of sovereign nations is broached? Yes, God bless our fine men in uniform, but perhaps it's time to seriously consider more sustainable foreign policy alternatives.
After eight years, thousands of lost lives and billions of dollars with no resolution I think it is pretty clear that Afghanistan is already a quagmire.  (Yes, thousands -- Afghans are people too.)

This was an extremely shallow analysis.   I don't see hbow you can claim (without any evidence at all) to know what the Afghan population thinks.   The on thing that is clear in the murk is that we have killed far too many civilians to be able to set our selves up as peacemakers with any credibility at all.   The Taliban may not be very popular now, but neither were the warlords (like Karzi) whose unchecked reigns of corruption, greed, rape, and destruction led to the population supporting the Taliban in the first place.
This was a good article.  I am glad we went into Afghanistan but we went in too late.  And because of that we are having to fix more problems.  We need to focus on the local level.  Afghani's have always operated on the local, small scale level which is why Russia could not conquer them.  We need to strengthen all of their local governing agents and get rid of corruption at the local level.  This will win the support of the Afghan people to help themselves which is what we really want anyway.  When they see their local government working for them and local hospitals working and local schools etc, then they will fight the Taliban themselves and welcome our help if needed.
As long as we try to force our (U.S.) big centralized government from the top (a president) down, we will continue to fail.  
This article is dead right!  It's about time someone tells it like it is.  I spent a year at NATO HQ running the PRT effort and went all over the country and this article is one of the few that really hits the nail on the head.  Time and again I heard people say that they didn't want the Taliban but they were afraid that the west just didn't have the staying power and were afraid of whose side to go on.  These people are in basic survival mode.  They need far more reconstruction aid, roads, bridges, schools, hospitals, etc.  Not just to win people's hearts and minds, but to jumpstart their economy and get people away from the only way they can make a living: killing others.
I found your analysis interesting and informative because it probes beneath some of the shallow myths that drive the debate. For that I thank you.

However, I've long since come to the conclusion that our only viable alternative is to pull out of both Afghanistan and Iraq: we botched the Afghan war by putting it on hold for 7 years while we prosecuted an unnecessary war in Iraq and we allowed the Taliban to regroup and undermine the population's resolve to support us. We lacked the resources, political will and political competence to pursue both wars.

My brother, a Navy pilot, was killed in 1967 on his third tour of duty in Vietnam, another pointless war justified by a "domino" theory, similar to the sophomoric theories that justify this war. Let's stop wasting lives on half baked theories.

I have detailed my position in a blog post:
http://www.dismountingourtiger.com/politics/mr-president-pull-out-of-afghanistan/
It's like Vietnam in a lot of ways.

1. We were always being told, Victory is possible. We're seeing signs of success.

2. Success was measured in body counts, as if there wasn't always a constant stream of new bodies.

3. Civilians were often killed and made part of the body counts.

4. They were never a threat to us and never would or could be except by our own negligence.

5. We were there in the cause of freedom.

6. If did serious damage to our economy.

I could go on.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/10/counterinsurgency_doctrine_and.html

You said no links and HTML then why on the bottom of the article there is this link publish please do take it out.............
Great Analysis,
I am an Afghan American who grew up in Kabul City.
In the past (The British, Russian, etc) never cared about the wishes and well being of the Afghan people.  I can honestly say that Americans Do Care, and the the Afghans know that. The United States should constantly assure and re-assure the Afghans that the Afghans are not going to be abondened.  One reason for the correption in the Afghan Government is that the Government workers think it is a short term deal. They think that "I have to make some money while I have the opportunity. God knows how long the Americans will stay". If the United States and Allies assure the Afghan prople that they are not going to be abondened, it will make a world of difference.  
Another important point is that unlike the Great Britin in early 20th cetury and the Russian in the 80's and 90's, Americans, Germans, Britisha, French and other Allied countries are Well Liked by Afghans. The majority of Afghans Do Not look at Americans and Allied forces as a threat to their religion, culture etc.and this is a key point to consider.  The Afghan people are nervous about Americans leaving Afghanistan.
You are right.  This war is different than the one with Russions, Great Bitin, or Alexander the Great.
This war CAN be won.
Lets not give up on them. They have suffered alot for the past 30 years. They deserve better, and we cn HELP.
Krauthammer got it right, if Obama doesn't have the guts its better to withdraw or we will get another Bay o Pigs or Desert Storm.
My feeling is that Obama is more of a Jimmy Carter than a Harry S. Truman
No, YOU don't understand! American Thinker is just more right-wing crackpot babble, like the uneducated Rush Limbaugh spews forth!
The problem that is Afganistan, is really Afganistan/Pakistan. The fact that the Bush administration turned thier collective back on Afganistan War as soon as oil rich Iraq came into the crosshairs was a temendous faux pas. The Obama administration had to start this war anew and the momentum that was lost because of the previous administrations short sightedness has cost the US and it's allies greatly. We had the backing of most of the world to seekout and destroy our enemies who masterminded 9/11 only to pull many of the most expert military and intelligence assets we had in Afganistan. This policy alone made America look like they were only interested in oil and could care less about the plight of a war-torn nation  that hadn't know peace for generations. If any of us were Afganis' would we trust the U.S. had our best interest at heart? That is what our troups face daily in Afganistan. That is the mess Bush/Cheney leaves all involved with now.
We are forgetting that this "War on Terrorism" will be a "generational war", lasting up to a century,according to Senior Military officers in the Pentagon.  Just two weeks after 9/11 Don Rumsfeld instructed Americans to "forget about 'exit strategies'; we're looking at a sustained engagement that carries no deadlines". He was prophetic, wasn't he?

What do the Afghans think about all of our plans for their country?  We are not asking them.  We are telling them what we are going to do.  If we stay, they are in for a terrible time.  If we leave, they will have the Taliban.  Not much of a choice for them, is it?

Hubris to think that America has all the answers.
Read "Three Cups of Tea" by Greg Mortenson if you want to understand the situation in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
What a paradox for Obama. His socialist views that a strong central government should (i.e. is obligated) to control all aspects of a citizen's life conflicts with his reluctance to send in troops that could cement control over the Afghans from Kabul (Afghan's DC). This would define victory for Obama as it would have defined it for Russia. For him to impose his form of socialism on Americans is easy because they have not yet rebelled. For him to impose his will on independent Afghans is another story, and he does not have the courage to stake his political future on a possible failure. His self-image will not let him pull out and admit defeat. His far-left peacnik side will not let him commit the troops. What a paradox for poor indecisive Barry. Perhaps he should pray about it, five times a day should do it.  
Talk talk talk. Help the people of Afganistan. How by educating and teaching them how to protect themselves. Make a dent into Taliban strategies as well as Al Quidea in the region. Once the people are taught how to protect themselves, we can help with resources, but why do we continue to fight these wars for nations that don't want us there in the first place. We are America the most giving and helpful country in the world, but we can't keep losing lives over wars that are continually debated with no end in sight. Learn more constructive ways to protect Americans and prevent future 9/11's and then we'll be on the right track to saving our nation and spending our money within it's boundries like it should be.
God Bless America

Pat D. from Charlotte
this talk of reconstruction of Afgan infrastructure never has specifics.  i thought the principal export of Afganistan was opium, derived from their principle product, poppy. (maybe that's why we have US Drug agents dying there?)  in Iraq, it was all about the oil we needed.  we don't need the Afgan heroin (the drug cartels do).  does anybody out there have a plan?  anybody at all?
I would like to see the US make use of our militray power just one time as they have not in the past 4 descades. I served from 1970 to 1972 and would hope we have learned something from history. The Russians tried to take Afghanistan in the 80s and failed because we helped the insurgents/Taliban. I think we need to pull our troops out of harms way for a few months, move as many civilians as will go, load up the B-52sin mothballs with bombs, and carper those mountain strongholds every day. Include Pakistan too! We are being pushed around by the Iraqis, Iran, and the Taliban. Let's just take it to them one time and see what the response would be. Truman did not want use The Bomb but saw the advantage to a superior military strike at that time. I am not proposing nuclear attack just use the old stuff we have stockpiled. How manu US and Afghani lives dou you think that will save??
How do I find out about donating to help the Afgan children and their orphanage?
Jim is an expert on Afghanistan and I bet he doesn't speak Pashtu, Dari or Urdu and has never lived in a mud hut for more than one night nor has he used the washroom like the Pashtu people do.  It is just mind boggling to listen to someone say that we have spend 8 years on a task, have achieved negative progress and do not consider that to be a quagmire.  What are you smoking?  Yes Afghanistan is no Vietnam but it sure looks like quicksand to me.
Afghanistan is already a quagmire. We've spent billions of dollars and sacrificed hundreds of lives already. It's not clear that if we stayed another 8 years it would make any significant difference to the stability of the region or to the safety of Americans. The government in Kabul is corrupt and there is no legitimate partner to establish peace. After all this time, the burden is on those who support an escalation of the war to convince us why their strategy will be successful. Jim Maceda's analysis falls far short.
I do believe Colin Powell to be one of the greater Americans, and somebody has already quoted him.  
With that said, I'd like to do the same by pointing out that he and his fellow officers who fought in Vietnam vowed never to let that happen again... and I believe his inability to keep that promise is one reason why he no longer finds it worthwhile to participate.  

He also had a story in regard to Vietnam that the only reason a particular airstrip was on a hill somewhere was so that it could supply the base that was there to defend the airstrip.  To me, that sounds pretty much like what's going on in Iraq and Afghanistan right now.  We're there because we're there and we don't know why we're there...  

The truth is, it's a mess and America as it stands today is unwilling to do what's necessary to accomplish anything resembling a win.  If we don't have the guts to kill 1 million of their civilians, then we have no business sending soldiers there with anything beyond flowers and greeting cards.

It just seems to me, Afghanistan is simply "all of the above."  None of which includes winnable.
Screw Afghanistan. Let's bring the troops home. Keep the drones flying ... but let's go home.
We hear to little from so called friendly muslim govts., why? Because they do not support our attempt to tame the muslim world. We need to get over it.  Leave them to kill each other which they seem to be doing better than us.  The muslim world cannot and will never unite, will never gre with each other.  What has come true is that the enemy is amongs and we need to watch our own house.  In other words, mind our own business.  Afganistan will be Afganistan long after we are gone.  
My son-in-law died there last Sunday. He is survived by a 22 year old widow and 19mo daughter. Our government is going to financially abandon these two American citizens in a few months. To H#LL with Afghanistan. These folks do not value human life like we in the USA do. Our military can not do its job due to rules put down from on high in our government.

Send Obama's cabinet over there with his family to run around the countryside enjoying the scenery and if they make it home I will go home and say no more.
To put it simply,that makes a lot of sense.
I wish those who compare US tactics and strategies to the Soviets in the 1980's would please do their homework.  Our actions there have not caused the same mass exodus of Afghan refugees from the country that the Soviets did.  Why is that?  Probably because the Afghans realize we don't operate in the same heavy handed manner as the russians.  In my year serving in Afghanistan, I spoke many locals in different villages who all related the same stories of massive indiscriminate combat action against civilians.  From what I have seen, the only refugees cause by Operation Enduring Freedom have been Al Qaeda and the Taliban.  So please don't dishonor Americans and our Nato allies by comparing our actions to those of the former USSR.
I simply do not understand what these people are thinking when they say that we should just leave.  In a matter of a couple of months we would have another Sept. 11th style terrorist attack.  Don't they understand that this safe haven is how they managed to pull it off.  Jeezus!  So many Americans are just plain stupid.  Everyone should have to serve in the military in our country.  Perhaps it would make them wiser.  If not, maybe the dumb ones will get killed.
During the surge in Iraq, Gen Petraeus and UnderSec
Crocker appeared jointly and denied, when asked, that the surge by itself was decisive, because, they said, all depended on the Iraqis to finish the job.

Is Karzai any more capable than al-Maliki?  He certainly is in a much weaker starting position, because his power barely extends outside a 50 KM radius from Kabul, and the countryside is widely divided.
This article can be written by a 12 year old playing soccer in the school yard. Everyone knew these facts before USA even demanded for handover of Al-Qaida in Afghanistan. In these modern times, there are wars that cannot be won simply for the fact that you are not fighting an army. The old belief that you can defeat a country just by high tech weapons is a mirage. Just like in Iraq, or Lebanon. Who do you define as the enemy? where is his location? who supplies the weapons? where are their weapon caches? I'd suggest that we get the heck out of Afghanistan, set up 100 (or more)drones in their sky and dunk on any collection of individuals on the slightest suspicion. This will keep Al-qaida from growing into a larger force. It is more effective, less strenuous on our economy and zero casualties. I don't even understand why so many people are aginst the Health care plan when they are willing to support such waste of resources in wars. DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY INJURED USA SOLDIERS THERE ARE AROUND THE WORLD? we need to keep things in perspective and stop fighting this war like it's a win or lose. There will never be a day Taliban will say, sorry we've lost.
Prior to 9/11 Bin Laden demanded US remove all military from the mideast. Since then US has spent over 1 trillion and 5000 soldier lives fighting terrorists in Iraq and Afganistan. Today there is no shortage of recruits for terrorists because US military has killed innocent civilians. The US military  will occupy Somalia next to fight the terrorists. There will be no end to US military occupation and nation building of the fight against terrorism. The solution to the taliban threat to Pakistan's nuclear weapons, is for the US to seize them.
hi all I'm Muslim and Pakistani I see you all message but not read compeletely :) any how we and you both have a same trouble. We pay tex and gov use our money not posative work they waste our all money in stupid works. 9/11 itn't inside job ? leave this story I want asking some question please help me I hope you people too understand it's important for you like me.
Bush Family involve in Arms Dealer Business ?
please reply me today too much lie in the world.
and must think before 9/11 what condition of USA and why Europe start Euro currency after 9/11 before he said we start in 2000 but in 2000 they said some problem in this currency after that we release this currency and after 9/11 they start euro currency why ? that time whole world want usa currency not going down. i hope you people understand what I m asking.
I don't pretend to have the answer to what to do in Afghanistan but I would make one obserbvation. Why would the people of afghanistan depend on the United States as a partner? We have not commited to anything since WWII. What makes you think we are going to change now?
There are reasons for failures in Afghanistan. Because innocent and poor people were attacked by a supper power killing and destroying ruthlessly for non of faults of common-man. Most Afghan still do not know why they were attacked ? What is their fault ? And who is their friend or foe ? More over,  Afghans will one day decide who wins or loose the show? They are very slow to understand and act  on guide line of religious motivation. They eat and drink different stuff than what most of us do. They are not used to so many blessings and facilities of life than what we have. So do not expect them to change  so quickly and adopt to our assumptions that are just assumed for the sake of it. Indeed, these are collections of popular chaos and intellectual confusion. More over, the belief of these people called Afghans in God and their religion is so strong that fundamentalists Muslim masses will continue to attract them disregarding the cost  or stakes involved. Western Think Tank can not judge the depth and potentials this intangible phenomenon . And by the time , world will start realizing whether , history is repeating it self or some other magic is working, more losses on Afghans and their occupying nations would have been caused. There are more tricks there. There are some other players who really want  all Invading Nations to really pay a high price for the victory that will eventually turn every think in defeat? A point to ponder????
War objectives should be made public so they can choose now ? See who all can be happy including u r friends and foe alike, in eventual disaster of all fighting against Afghans in Afghanistan and in the region? Is Russia very comfortable and so on others like China and others who think their oil and gas will taken away from CAS region down to Indian Occean??????????????? Think over it seriously .... and decide u r self . Its not Greek? God bless all with peace and wisdom.
I love reading all the opinions and comments and wonder consistently a single, simple question.  "How many times have you been there"?  That's my question for the most interesting opinions.  Sit and stare an Afghan in the face, especially an Afghan Talib and then let me know how you feel.  Or, look a child in his or her little face and gentle, sad eyes, then tell me how you feel about leaving or in my case how soon I can get back.
Divide and conquer should be a strategy used in Iraq and Afghanistan. There are too many tribes fighting each other for one government to minister. Split each country into piece and elect new leaders. We need to know who is our friend (ally). In the end, we will see who wants freedom and where the Taliban and al Quida will settle. Battling for a huge country isn't going to end the struggle.
The American Indian fought each other, just like Dulaim and Shammar in Iraq. The fight continues. Sunni, Shia, Jibur, and Tikritis fight for their own territory. They fought against Iran. Folks, it's not going to end tomorrow or 200 years from now. The fight, it's all about religion, politics, and freedom of choice. The arms manufacturers are the big winners. So it's really all about money.
These people who say pull out are really a disappointment to me. First off we have been only half heartedly fighting Afganistan for years only focusing on Iraq. Is there any suprise things did not go well we have given them little money and very little troops. Now that we are refocused and are finally giving this battle field attention people want to give up. The fight can still be won now that we are actually trying. Don't blame the Afgans blame the decision to go to Iraq.
I would like to categorize Jim Maceda and some of the bloggers here to be in the group of "right thinking" people (pardon my arbitary use of the term). Their efforts to base their arguments on facts, experience and logic gained from indepth studies of the issue do add weightage to their points. My comments as endorsed below may appear a bit 'far fetched' but I am trying to hit at the root of terrorism not only in Afghanistan, but also in the whole world:

1. The mindset of Afghan people including their culture, values, economic conditions, prevailing geo-political realities, etc should invariably be taken into consideration before making any policy strategy.
2. Religious extrimism can only be countered effectively by reinvigorating the sense of 'rationality' in human beings - not by use of force or any other means.
3. Human values and economic well-being of mankind, irrespective of nationality, religion, color, creed, location, etc, needs to be pursued with renewed vigor worldwide.
4. Capacity building of Afghan people is of utmost importance to enable them to take care themselves. Decentralisation of efforts & resources and strengthening the local governance should get high priority in Afghan policy option.
5. US should seriously reconsider 'the effectiveness and catastrophic costs of its wildly interventionist foreign policy option'. How much has this profited US in last two decades or so?
For every civilian casualty we cause, we are breeding more converts to Al Qaida and other anti-American organizations. If we could fight a war without targeting civilians, an extended occupation of Afghanistan would make sense (and even of Pakistan), but there is no clean war. I think withdrawal is the best solution because no blood would be shed. Let's strengthen our military at home.
Thank you, everyone, for interesting thoughts.  I agree with most of the points raised by Mr Maceda, which are well informed and documented by history and experience.  

What he doesn't say, but -- I infer -- implies strongly, is that the U.S. and NATO face a dilemma.  Leave and the West appears defeated, only to embolden radical "IslaMaosim" to continue extending its dream of a renewed caliphate that recognizes neither national borders or sovereignties.  

Stay, without just the right touch, and we end up in a quagmire, eventually conceding victory to the Taliban and al Qaeda.  

Either scenario spells protracted misery for the beleaguered peoples of a  future killing field across Afghanistan.  Either way, Pakistan is likely to fall to the Taliban and al Qaeda or host a vicious war between Paunjabis and Pashtuns, with dark implications for the 155 nuclear warheads in Pakistan and eventual expansion into Kashmir...which means war with India and possible WWIII.

We must win in Afghanistan and we must figure out how, fast.  General McChrystal's request is well thought out, though (of course) I have my own differences.  Debate is the name of the game; competing thoughts are more likely than not to define that right civil-military response.  

Among the many interesting comments posted, the one that made me pause is that which cautions against our trying to think like Afghanis.  Very good point and a fault of my thinking all of the time.  One may not be unique but cultural divides among people can be decisive...and deadly, if overlooked.
I have read the thoughts of all and have come to one conclusion. Although I have no rebuttles for any comments, I can understand why Pres. Obama is having great difficulty trying to decide what is best for  our armed forces,America, and perhaps the world at large. I questioned a couple of things this reporter commented on, the main one was the comments from the villagers. I don't know that I would have believed what they said so readily.After all they live there we don't and I don't see any of them giving up their poppy fields which is what the Taliban/Al-Quida is there for in the first place. They are protecting their interest and money. These people have been fighting tribal wars forever and I don't believe the the UN,US or any other force is going to change that. There are several solutions but the only one I would like to see acted upon is to bring our people back home. Life and families are much more important to me than "winning" any war. We have used that word too often in conflicts whether home or abroad and that ideation needs to be handled very carefully. My first thought would be if we spend more lives and money and 10 yrs form now they are back to the same kind of behaviors what then. Also since they do not see that much of the revenues from the poppy fields how will they maintain the schools, hospitals etc. Still looks like a no win to me.


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Fight for Iraq
Learn more about the ethnic, religious and political power plays in and around Iraq during a briefing of the region led by NBC’s Richard Engel.