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It's crunch time in Afghanistan

Posted: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 9:16 AM
Filed Under:

Aunt Dee is the real pundit of my family – an opinionated, 80-year-old independent spirit if there ever was one. You never know whom she’ll target next, so getting an e-mail from our own gadfly is always special.

Her latest feint and thrust – on the war in Afghanistan – came about two weeks ago: "Well, I have to get started on dinner so will close this now. We see nothing about that war in Afghanistan. It’s like it doesn’t exist. And, no one is asking Obama, ‘What are we doing there?’"

Since that e-mail, it’s as if every politician and editorialist – on both sides of the Atlantic – is reading Aunt Dee!

"What’s the mission?" asks one. "To prevent another 9/11," answers another. "To build a viable Afghan state," chimes in a third. And on and on...

VIDEO: IEDs increasing U.S. deaths in Afghanistan

Some analysts wonder why we’re even in Afghanistan at all, when most "terrorists" and terror attacks are in, or originating from, Pakistan. Other experts rejoin that if we withdrew from or failed in Afghanistan, then Pakistan – and the rest of South Asia with it – might implode.

A maelstrom of opinion has burst wide open, and in its wake, even traditional positions have shifted.

Debating what the ‘other war’ has become
U.S. Special Envoy Richard Holbrooke, a die-hard Democrat and astute peacemaker, sounds utterly hawkish on Afghanistan: "This is not Vietnam," he recently told me at the U.S. Embassy in Kabul. "We’re here because the enemies of America, the people who did 9/11 … are out there, protected by the Taliban, and we have no choice but to succeed here."

On the flip side, George Will, an arch-conservative columnist, is now touting a kind of a Clintonesque way out, writing in the Washington Post that America should focus on cruise missile and drone attacks, and "do only what can be done from offshore" to minimize casualties. The war, in his mind, has gone on too long, and in any case, is unwinnable.

Of course, the debate is really about what that "other war," for years slightly off the radar screen, has suddenly become: A steady increase in body bags and coffins returning from front lines and the fearful likelihood of perhaps tens of thousands more U.S. troops heading into danger. 

U.S. commanders talk about a "new strategy" to better protect the Afghan people – we’re told – so that they can rebuild their lives and thus have something bigger to lose in their own fight against the Taliban. This, we’re assured, is a tried and true counterinsurgency approach. It made a big difference in Iraq, and could be a game-changer in Afghanistan. Still, at least according to the latest polls, most Americans only see more violence, and death.

New York Times contributor Thomas Friedman wrote in a recent column that the U.S. mission in Afghanistan has morphed from "babysitting" a people to "adopting" a nation. Friedman believes that this much larger undertaking should be more thoroughly debated by the American public before we go any further. 

Well, Aunt Dee, let the debate begin: What is the mission? 

Again, why are we there?
The "believers" say that, ultimately, the mission hasn’t changed: disrupting al-Qaida, and along with it the Afghan Taliban, the Pakistani Taliban, the Haqqanis, the Mehsuds, and all the other jihadist militant groups and networks operating in Afghanistan and Pakistan before they spread their turbulence to India or to China or, once again, to America.

In 2001, that required a minimal number of U.S. forces "invading" behind pro-U.S. militias to defeat the Taliban. Eight years later, it means a substantial surge of U.S. troops and experts, "going long and deep" to build up Afghan forces and the "human terrain" in an attempt to lay the foundation of a state that can one day protect itself.

But the critics – growing by the day – don’t buy it. They say that nation-building is a waste of life and treasure in a narco-state whose government reeks of corruption, where the latest national elections remain mired in fraud, and where Taliban commanders, warlords, drug lords and armed civilians are often one in the same, under an ever-shifting turban. 

So why are we there? Those in favor insist that the best defense against al-Qaida is a stable, self-sustaining Afghan government, especially in the land where 9/11 was hatched.

They say the U.S. needs to stay as long as it takes to see that Afghan government emerge. "There is no alternative but for the United States to remain committed to rebuilding a minimalist state in Afghanistan,’’ wrote Ahmed Rashid, a Pakistani journalist who is an expert on the Taliban, in Sunday’s Washington Post.

Those opposed say the U.S. – whatever its real intentions – increasingly appears to Afghans as occupiers, and predict it will fall into the same quagmire as the Soviets and the Victorian British before it. Losing lives and facing a ‘’roadless, broken and undeveloped country, an absence of any strategic points, a well-armed enemy with great mobility and modern rifles, who adopts guerrilla tactics,’’ as the young Winston Churchill, an embedded reporter for the Daily Telegraph, described the Anglo-Afghan campaign … in 1897.

Frankly, I’ve heard many intelligent, articulate voices on either side of the issue. Columnist Nicholas Kristof, in Sunday’s New York Times, argued effectively for more "modest goals" in Afghanistan, warning that "sending in more American troops … in the Afghan south may only galvanize local people to back the Taliban …" 

But equally compelling was Haroun Mir, an Afghan-American analyst living in Kabul, who recently told me to disregard the signs of plummeting U.S. support for the war. "What’s true is that the Afghan people welcome your presence here," he said.  "After three decades of conflict, people are tired. Everyone wants to have a peaceful life. And we know that won’t happen here without the support of your forces."

VIDEO: Richard Holbrooke and Haroun Mir weigh in on the U.S. war effort in Afghanistan

But how many U.S. troops are necessary, for how long, and at what cost? George Will’s answer is "get out now." Otherwise, he believes, "Afghanistan would need hundreds of thousands of coalition troops, perhaps for a decade or more. That is inconceivable.’’   

A decade or more …

Déjà vu all over again?
A decade ago, few Americans could have easily found Afghanistan on a map. Neglect and isolation were the petri dishes from which emerged the mayhem – civil war, the Taliban and Osama bin Laden.

Today, most Americans are finding out that Afghan tribes, who rule over a mostly lawless land, pay no mind to nuisances like international borders or "new" U.S. counter-insurgency strategies.

Amid all the chaos of opinion, framing a debate isn’t easy. Finding consensus is even harder. But I would break it down into two "generic" camps.

One camp is made up of those who think that the prospects for peace in Afghanistan are as elusive – even illusory – today as they were generations ago. 

In his insightful book, "Butcher & Bolt: Two Hundred Years of Foreign Engagement in Afghanistan," BBC South Asia Correspondent David Loyn describes the events of 1840 (that’s right, 1840) in the same ethnic Pashtun areas where President Obama is most likely to send more U.S. troops.  

Loyn’s account reads like a dispatch from any of today’s papers: "a growing Islamist insurgency … overstretched foreign troops unable to quell a widening and worsening conflict [read: NATO]; a cultural clash with Kabul as the occupiers behaved in a way  that offended local sensibilities [read: "civilian casualties"]; an Amir who could not rule without foreign support [read: President Hamid Karzai] …’’

And another camp for those who believe that Afghan history was made to be rewritten, not repeated. Taming the militants in so-called "Pashtunistan," whether from Kabul, Jalalabad, Gazni or Kandahar, much less from London, Moscow or Washington, has never succeeded before. But, these optimists say, it might – just might – succeed today.

What to do about an ancient, distant land of impenetrable havens for holy warriors of all stripes, unified in their hatred of infidels and any central government?

It’s crunch time. The stakes are enormous. And Aunt Dee deserves some hard answers.

Jim Maceda is an NBC News correspondent based in London who has reported from Afghanistan regularly since 2001.

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Comments

Have we learned nothing from Vietnam?  I spent 500 days there, everyday hoping that things were overall going well for us and everyday knowing they were not.  Get out of the Iraq and Afghanistan now!  Or, start a draft and find out exactly how much support there is for this stupidity.
No, actually it's been crunch time in Afghanistan for many years. In recent decades it was the Soviet invasion and occupation. More recently there was a civil war followed by a brutal Islamo-fascist tyranny. Now finally the seeds of democracy have been planted with freedom and stability starting to sprout. But the savage Taliban aggressors and their radical Islamic cohorts want to end it all and re-impose another ruthless dictatorship. But the Afghans are tough and courageous. They will weather this storm, too. With the assistance of the US and the West, the Afghans will eventually crunch the Taliban and protect their newly emerging democracy.
US has 2 choices...either Embrace Islam and claim we are in Afghanistan to promote Islam,because that is the only think that brings all sects/aspects of Afghan together.
The other choice is to go the Soviet Union way.

I do not see any other way in this.
There is "no winning" in this War. Its too late, the USA does not have the "courage" to leave, the people hate us, the only people that say to our face "we love you", are those that we put in power, they recive the money we provide, they are corrupt as our system, leave them alone.  Protect the USA at our borders, reenforce our ports of entry. There are plenty of countries that "hate us", we have not gone to war against them, they have enven provoked us in the news papers, North Kores, IRAQ, Libiya. The USA
does not have the courage to leave, yet we would rather see our young men and woman continue to spill blood on foreign soil. If the USA wants to feel better, then allow Haliburton to put up a factory over there, allow Walmart to arrive, if it makes us feel better, we can say we won, allow the people to become greedy, just like us.  Now we can say we won!!Now get the troops back, so they can live the Amercian dream, the way its suppose to be. If the hawks want to continue their "combat duties" let them arrange them in the covert, like the old days. Better yet, lets A-76 these tasks, and outsource, put a USA company headquarters in the switzerland to Avoid IRS, should make the American companys millions so that can donate to the next presidencey of the foreign country, sound familar, my gosh the coutnry could become a US territory.
The Pentagon seeks to frame this debate into a choice between only two options:
1.  Surge more troops (McChrystal plan); or
2.  Withdraw and lose with al-Qaeda controlling the country.
GOTO www.kabulpress.org and click on "English" for
a third option, which is more reasonable.
Matthew J. Nasuti
former USAF Captain
former State Dept. official
Well, Aunt Dee, it seems that there is no one person in charge of the final decision here. The C-inC would rather leave the decision up to someone else before having to make a decisive decision himself. Perhaps, that way, he can blame it on someone else if it doesn't come out the way public opinion wants it to. At least Bush made the commitment, whether it was popular or not, and stuck by it. My son is over there now, for the second time, with the 82nd Airborne. We both love this country and despise what OBL did to us and our way of life. If he could find him and kill him we would all feel much better, but it still wouldn't be the end, would it! The troops there are dying every day because the C-in-C hasn't made up his mind to devote ALL of the powerful U.S. to the job. He piddles around until our boys/girls drop dead trying to do what they think he wants them to do. Mr. President, commit the troops that are needed to do the job successfully. You would have the backing of the whole nation, and your troops would know that you are committed to the task at hand.
As for Aunt Dee...well, Auntie, I hope your grandsons are given the tools they need to do the job before it's too late. Pray for us all.
We will never win the hearts and minds of the Afghan people.  Maybe when we first invaded, had to completely destroyed the Taliban and its logistical support we might have had a chance.  We didn't fight the right war when we had the chance.  You never allow an enemy to rebuild and retake ground that has been liberated.  We failed in that respect, and now it is to late.  It's time to get out.  I was appalled when I read that account this morning when a Marine and Afghan patrol called in air support and it was denied because there were civilians in the area.  Several marines were killed because of that failure to sent air support.  The civilians, women & children, were carring ammo to the Taliban fighters and therefore they should have been taken out.  This policy of protecting civilians at all cost is the dumbest policy I have seen.  It's time to get out now, and let the Afghans settle their own differences. My God it should not take 8 yrs to build up a police force and army.
Friday is the eighth aniversary of 9/11.  If you've forgotten why we are in Afganistan then you have forgotten the people who perished on that fateful day.  They are the reason we fight.  51 casualties in a month seems a small price to pay to prevent the loss of over 2000 inocent lifes in a single day.  The phrases "Never again" and "We will never forget" seem ironically to have been forgotten.
Mistakes have been made and lives have been lost but that doesn't make a war unwinnable.  If you beleive that this war can't be won then you beleive that the al-Qaida now has a permanent home in Afganistan and a powerful protector in the Taliban.  
Now is the time to remember!
I agree with a lot of you in these posts. I think we should pull out of Afganistan, etc. But lets be very clear on something, the next time these terriosts ie: 9/11 try to do something on our soil again we will WIPE their "countries" off the map. Yes, Pakistan, IRAQ, North Korea I mean you. We need to remember we have TITAN's that when 1 dropped will take out 1000 square miles. We have the power of the sun - ponder that one for a moment. They call us imperalists - likelily we don't actually act like "Cesars." Otherwise all these middle eastern countries would be gone! Then they all can go hangout with Adullah Obdullah Jubullah Poopallah.  
Perhaps if we were to fight war as war I would not be so upset for the past 8 years.In the beginning we fought for all the right intentions ( 9/11 ).This WAR has been turned into a treatise on popular opinion.War is BRUTAL,War is HELL,War is VICIOUS.If the U.S. is going to wage war,THEN WAGE WAR.Popular opinion be damned,newspapers be damned, give the enemy everything we've got until they beg for no more.We didn't start this but we should damn well finish it and as quickly as possible.Too many of our brothers and sisters are dying.AND FOR WHAT? Our politicians have their eyes  on the latest polls wondering which way the wind is blowing.Their more interested in going after the C.I.A. and primping for the cameras than they are in WAGING WAR.War is HELL let it be hell for those who wage it against the U.S.I am disgusted with our political leaders.Either decide to win this war and bring our troops home or just BRING OUR TROOPS HOME.
I think it is good to remember that Afghanistan did not hatch the 9/11 terrorists, money, support and people, mainly from Saudi Arabia, did.  They just found a lawless nation to set up camp.  I urge anyone who cares to read The Looming Tower.  Best history of the problem that exists today.  
its like we are between a hard place and a rock. everyone has an  comment, but as a mother of a young solider that   is in this unit.... One thing I would like everyone to remember is that these young men and women give up so much................and need to be remembered as hero's......... they go with out every day things, and thing that we take for granted....
like clean air, water, warm beds, food , showers....
and support, so  its not if we win or lose it is how we treat our young men and women when they return......they will always be my Heros.......
We need to stop what has become a dirty street fight with no winners and make a decisive decision at the top.  We either fight to win or we get our butts out and give every combat soldier a cold beer and salute for doing a fantastic job.  But the political indecisiveness has wasted too many lives, resources and quite frankly tested our patience for too long.  Make <A> decision Washington!

The American people do not know what the mission is in Afghanistan and what the end game is to be, but then Obama and all those in charge don't seem to know either.  At this point it seems to be to kill Taliban and/or Al Queda, who are mostly in Pakistan in safe havens. Troops cannot nation build and no one shall build a nation out of Afghanistan in any case. What exactly are our troops supposed to accomplish there and when?  

We will never win a war of attrition with the Taliban or Al Queda.   They have more recruits than they are able to train.  We cannot win a war of attrition with the terrorists of the Muslim world as well.  We can't kill em all, can we?

The Arab/Israel conflict is the nexus of our being targets of Muslim terrorism and certainly was the nexus of the September 11th attacks in New York and DC.  Almost all Muslim terrorists when caught say they want to kill Jews and Americans.  They believe that every Jew is an Israeli.

I look at the Middle East as a spilled container of mercury.  Until and unless the Arab/Israeli situation is solved and gives the Palestinians a land and a life, including freedom of movement in the West Bank and unless Gaza is no longer a de facto concentration camp, there will never be breathing room for the US and we will continue fighting a losing "War on Terror", literally forever!  The Arab/Israeli conflict has us by the throat!
 
General George C. Marshall, in my opinion the greatest American of the 20th Century, told Harry Truman in 1948, that a Jewish state of a few million Jews in the middle of 50 million Arabs would lead to eternal war.  He is still right over 60 years later!

David Ben Gurion said that the Palestinians had ultimately borne the burden of Hitler, the Nazis, Auschwitz, the Holocaust and anti-Semitism, all things that they had nothing to do with.  He stated that no one could deny the victimhood (his word)  of Jews throughout the ages, but that doesn't entitle them to take it out on the Palestinians.  He also stated that all the Arabs knew was that Jews had stolen their country and went on to say that had he been born a Palestinian, that he would have fought Israel in perpetual war.

As long as Israel and the Palestinians are at each other's throats, we will be in deep trouble, especially if terrorists get a dirty weapon of some kind, and they will within the next five years.  

Iran is going to get nukes and there is nothing that we or Israel can do to stop them, short of all out war with Iran, but then you can kiss some major target cities in Israel, the oilfields in Saudi Arabia and god knows what else "bye-bye now"!



Evacuating from the Afghan countryside ( notice not nation) within the next 12 months is imperative if we wish to commence sanity of some sort in our deficit. It would make a dent in the costs of a universal health care plan.
Former US Army medic  1960-1063
It takes the will of the President.  If he has no will, we will not win.  Remember the terrible war we fought against ourselves.  We were a new democracy, support this nation, help them become self sufficient, that is what we want and I would think the Afghan people.  Freedom, not tyranny.  
Since Obama is in office it seems that the war is over. Where are all the media saying lets get our troops home. I havan't heard a peep from nancy saying we are killing cilivans. obama increased troops, the times and newsday don't print very about the war. only when bush was president they complained. Thats the liberal way.
This is in response to Braden. It is really easy to commit someone else to go over to war, and perhaps 51 casualties is acceptable(as long as the casualty is not your son or daughter). I have 2 sons in the military. Why should I be asked to sacrifice my sons for some other 'country'? Especially one that is so questionable. What possible value could Afghanistan be to the US? Why should I be asked to potentially sacrifice my sons for something like this? Why should my sons have to pay the price for bad politics or mistakes? I do NOT support this war nor do I want this country in the nationbuilding business! Why are we responsible for protecting civilians who may be scheming to kill our soldiers? This is wrong.  
Richard in FL & Robert in CA I totally see both your points. I too have a son in the Marines who will be deploying there next year. Richard good luck to your son. Yes we are there because of 9/11 and I don't think many people have forgotten that.  With that, this war is totally winnable.  It's very simple-you annihilate the country.  How do you think Germany and Japan were defeated? Because we prevented civilian casualties?  Give me a break. Heck, I bet Vietnam could have been "won" within a month if we annihilated the north.  The people there don't care about us "occupiers."  They don't even care about their own citizens. Imagine if this country fell into the hands of real tyrants.  The American people wouldn't allow it - we would fight back.  No American would be allowed to be a human shield. How come the people there don't fight back, make a stand? They are just as responsible for there own well being. Why can't they use their drug money to build? I thought all was far in love and war? Enough of this BS, take the gloves off and get on with it. This war will be over real quick if we do that.
Its true we do need more information from the administration what our goal is in afghanistan. But if you ask me we need to be there and get the taliban back on the ropes like in 2004 so that we can draw some of the pakistani taliban into a two sided conflict with the pakistani government and a hopefully coalition force. Because inevitably if you want to get to al qaeda, the reason were out there in the first place then you have to go to pakistan where the madrassas that teach and train terrorism exhist. I'm just worried the American public won't have the stomach for another war and we could leave a revitalized taliban and al qaeda to disrupt the region, maybe even get control of pakistans nukes.
As heartless and insinsitive as it may sound i am going to voice the private opinion of myself and other military veterans i have spoken with casually about this " limited war " strategy.
It goes a little something like this... ask yourself this question. " if gang members were having a shootout with the police on your street.. what would you do ? would you get your gun and help one or the other? , would you take shelter and see to it that your family was safe? , would you wait for the battle to end? "
if you are thinking about it ... you're too late. either you needed to be looking ahead years before the battle and either join the gang or become a cop so you could be a real player in that battle...
THE ONLY LOSERS IN WAR ARE THE CIVILIANS.
Since we are going to wipe out(apparently) 124 civilian Afghan lives to one Taliban, the depopulation of the country will, ultimately, solve the problem.
How about bring troops home. Place them on mexico boarder. and have a war there close to home
You can never win the hearts of Taliban or Pushtoun by sending more troops. We only can win by installing protected Factories and workshops where Afghan could get training and job to feed his family.If you can let them earn money and let them live with dignity gradually the problem will be solved and the land lord will vanish. Troops, war and enemity will accellerate Taliban movement. Kids turns to taliban because they have no choice to earn their bread with honor. Ask Multinational companies to build a secure area nearby every city and town and start manufacturing items like Shoes, Clothings, Marble,Motor cycles, Rickshaws and other necesities of life .
Danger - Danger
Do not go to www.kubalpress.org. It hosed my computer bad. I had to turn off the dsl modem and then turn off the computer power button to regain control.
Maybe MSNBC would be nice enough to post Captain Matthew J. Nasuti article in a text only format on a secure webserver.
The taliban and al-quaeda probalby has some bot controlling my computer now.
Is it possible the way to victory is thru educating the afgan women. The "holy war" may not be winnable, but peace might be obtained by giving women basic rights which will forever change the afgan culture.
I returned from Vietnam in August 1970 after serving as an infantry officer. Within a month, my father-in-law asked me "Has anyone figured out why we are there."

He was a conservative Republican evangelical Christian and he did not know why we were there.

In 2009 we should ask why after eight years, we are still in Afghanstan.
Like rats in the basement, you either learn to live with them and come to an uneasy truce or you drive your self crazy trying to win the battle. I think at this point the only solution is to do what a guy did in Montana, flood the basement with propane and blow it up. And in the end he lost his house and the neighboor rats moved in to the rubble pile.

We missed the opportunity back in early 2002 to finish the deal, we put a rat in office and are paying the consequences now, Frankly i think George Will has the best idea. and in that we could if we wanted to stamp out the drug trade there, and i think we should.

Let them become a devil country but never ever alow them to leave and force them to feed upon themselves
How can we turn tail and run? These cowards who hide behind their women, who they treat as beasts of burden, hide the cowards who bombed our planes and murdered thousand of Americans. They use religion as a excuse but in reality they are followers of Satan. Alah would never condon what they do.
It might be a good idea to learn to live "equally" with the rest of the world and also to respect other people's cultural values. This has always been the only way to get the same for yourself! We need a new world order where all people have equal rights and treated with dignity and respect. It is very hypocritical to talk about democracy while using the Veto power in the security councel to impose the big boy's will on the rest! Being humble is a teaching of Moses and Jesus!
I have a question for all of you out there, asking why we are there and why we don't leave; did you still feel the same way on 9/12/01?

Sure, we screwed up bid time (thanks "W"; find any WMD's yet), but quitting is not the answer and certainly will not make us any safer. Do you think that terrorists out there will think to themselves "well, now we know what America will do. Maybe we should leave them alone"?

No. If we quit, we will be attacked at will and whim by every terrorist out there that believes we do not have the courage to fight to the end.

Think about how the world might be right now if we had decided back in WW2 that it wasn't worth the sacrifice-despite the attack on Pearl Harbor. That is essentially what we are doing now, saying that despite the fact that 3,000 men, women and children were ruthlessly slaughtered on our soil is just not enough of a reason to sacrifice ourselves for our country and freedom.

Afghanistan does not need quitters;  it needs a comprehensive plan,  a new direction and many years, if not decades of focus. In the end, both countries will be better for it.
Braden White - If you are so willing to have more american soldiers die in Afhanistan then you should go and join the fight.  To say "51 casualties in a month seems a small price to pay" is asinine in itself.  Had we fought the war as it should have been we might have gotten in and out within a short time.  We didn't do that.  We haven't done that since WWII.  As for the Taliban, they never attacked us, they refused to turn over OBL and other Al-Qaeda leaders.  
The fact that America is still deliberating whether to ramp up the number of troops or not is testimony to the fact that Westpoint graduates the dumbest fratboys this side of dufusville.   I mean, how apparent can it be that the USA isnt going to get out this any better than Russia did?    Get out you stupid idiots.  Get out!
American generals in Afghanistan:  the blind leading the deaf through the uncharted to accomplish the impossible.   Except it was done before [and lost] by Russia and by Alexander the Great, but American generals are just too dumb to get the message.  

Get out you idiots.   Get OUT !!!
Speaky englishi?
I am a US Marine.  I am not afraid.  The reason we are supposed to be over there is because of 9/11.  Iraq was a needless distraction.  We need to get back on course.  My Marines and I are ready.  I don't really care so much about building a country.  I am a warfighter.  We got hit hard on 9/11.  Let's hit back so we and nobody else gets hit.  We can win.  American people: unleash us.  Don't hold back.  This is where we should be.  We got hit from here.  Let's stop this now and defeat Al Qaida here.  If we leave before victory, they will see we as Americans do not have the will to fight.  The territories my brothers and sisters in arms have died for will fall.  And.....WE WILL GET HIT AGAIN!!!!!!
How many troops will it take?  How many Americans will be killed or mamed?  How many more years will it take?  How much will it cost?  How many people must we kill? Will it protect us from another 9/11? What will we have when we win?

I think the American people will generally tolerate a war for about a decade (much less if there is a draft).  At that point they begin to expect results.

Someone once said "the only thing we learn from history is that never learn".  Reread the article to get my point.
Those that live by the sword shall die by the sword
If people want to worry about terrorist countries, isn't it interesting how we've conveniently forgotten that most of the 9/11 suicide attackers were from Saudi Arabia -- and that earlier in the Khobar Towers bombing 19 Americans were killed with the Saudis thwarting any investigation by executing the attackers!
Firstly to win the war and defeat the taliban you have to quit giving them safe haven amonst the population. The Afgan government is crying about civillian deaths by Americans or Nato but yet the Taliban use these same citizens as human shield and torture and threaten them. All is fair in love and war and I say if we are going to be there then we blow up every hut, home, tanker, car, bus, or hospital that has Taliban in it. If not, lets get out and save our service men and women from fighting with their hands tied behind their backs.
We don't have a clue what winning the hearts of the Afghanis means. We aren't interested in them, we want their land for the pipeline. You want to win their hearts, it's simple get out of their country.
let the army do the job,newspeople cry babies stay out,do away with rules of engagement,they can cut our heads off on t.v. but we cannot shoot!!! It would be over if we let the army do thier job!!!
If I looked at both sides of the problem honestly I
would say the war is all about Oil,Minerals,Cheap leabor and drugs,And my answer to the problem is if
you want somthing you buy it.YOU DONT STEEL IT OR
IF YOU ARE BIGGER AND STRONGER YOU DONT GO AFTER THEM
IN GANG LAND FASHION LIKE BULLY`S.If it were the drugs
we should go after the stupid people that are buying
them.If it wasnt for the stupids out there making a
market for the drugs then it wouldnt be any reason to.
grow the drugs.In other words this country seems to be
the problem.}{For the 9/11 I dont believe that the dots have been connected at the begining and during the Bush administration.
Sure, do not go after Al-Qaida and guess what every day in some part of world where they are not favored there will be bombing, blasts in trains, ships and embassy's, not just that of USA but for all of Europe, India, China or any one who does not believe in multiple marriages like Osama Bin Laden or who opposed 200 dollar Barrel of gas. He says if water can be sold at Airports for $3.69 or more for a liter, why not gas, just imagine, a liter not gallon, Gallon will be over $14.00.
So, to save the world, life style of democracy and equality of women, so that they can dance, sing and do not have to wear Burqa, we not only have to be in Afghanistan but any place in the world, where they will try to take over and repress freedom.
Let us all join and find those who are burning California or any place creating Chaos and let us get them now not later. God Bless America.
THOSE AFGAN COWARDS ARE JUST LIKE THE VETAMEAS. THIS SO CALLED WAR IS A JOKE. TO MANY RULES FOR OUR TROOPS TO FOLLOW. GETS OUR TROOPS KILLED. ENFD THE BY NUCKING THE WHOLE COUNTRY. KILL ALL THE SONS OF FEDALS. WE  NEED THE TROOPS HERE IN THE U>S. TO FIGHT IN THE CIVAL THATS COMEING. OBAMA  IS THE WRONH PRES/ HE DONT KNOW WHAT HES DOING. DUM SHIT. HES GOT HIS HEAD IN HIS ASS. THE U.S. IS FAILING.BADLY.

The "Domino theory" is back. Forty years ago, we had to "win" in Viet Nam or all of SE Asia including India  would fall to the Cimmunists. We lost and the dominos did not fall. Now all of the Middle East will "fall" if we withdraw from Afghanistan.

With all our super-surveillance and "smart bombs" , how can the training camps of Bin Laden ? It's all about the generals being unable to suffer another Nam
As in Nam their only answer ala Westmoreland is more cannon (bomb) fodder..
If the Vietnamese were tough, check out the history of Afghanistan.
It can be won if there is a consistent strong message that the US is there till the end. Confusing signals embolden the opposition.  Trust your startegists and back them to the hilt.  Else, the message will go out that the US is powerful on paper only and the examples of Vietnam etc will be thrown  to boot.
There is another strategy that can defeat radical Islam, but it will require sacrifice on the home front.  Money is the engine of war, and oil money flowing from Saudia Arabia has reignited this long war.  If the flow of oil money is dramatically curtailed to Saudi princes, the war will slowly grind to a halt.  
The answer is a floating tariff on imported oil. When oil drops below say one hundred dollars a barrel on the open market, the tariff would be imposed and this would create a floor under the domestic energy market and encourage conservation and alternative energy development.  
This strategy would require sacrifice by all Americans, but it would disarm the radical Islamic movement.  The tariff revenue could be used to decrease our debts.  We would also save money now spent on the war.
There is a more elegant way, other than surrender or continued war.  Unfortunately the politicians will never call for sacrifice, the people will have to lead the government to such a plan.
I agree with Robert when he says: "We didn't fight the right war when we had the chance."  Despite being a dove who is leery of the Military Industrial Complex I wholeheartedly supported Bush when he went into Afghanistan after 9/11.  A line had been crossed that in my mind required total annihilation.  Whether that objective could've ever been achieved is debatable; but, the fact the Taliban was on the run is not.

To all of a sudden turn on a dime and devote resources required to finish the Taliban to invasion of Iraq was and is a mystery to me.  Was it a case of ignorance or callous greed?  Who knows?  With Vietnam, one theory suggests LBJ fell prey to supplied intelligence that said it would it be a walk through the park to root out the communists; of course, one would think the intelligence from the French experience there would have been enough to counteract it.  I find it hard to believe Bush didn't know he didn't have the resources to invade and finish the Taliban.  The skeptic (i.e., paranoid) in me screams......OIL!  The student of history reasons that it isn't always made by the cold calculating skull and bones boys or illumanati.  Sometimes it is made by real human beings who don't have a clue.  Regardless, I believe invasion was premature at that point in time and the focus should've remained in Afghanistan until the job was done or it was clear the objective couldn't be attained.
If you sum it all up, Russia, UK, and the French have had a go at Afganistan and all FAILED.  Why are trying to climb the mountain. GET OUT NOW. I was in frozen chosin (Korea) all we did was get our butts shot up. Same as Iraq, Get OUT Now. We have no meaningful ROI in this country, ie Nam.
Terrorism Will be an endless war that is not winnable... The point is not to win the war that would have no logical end!!!

The point is to keep those terrorists in their own backyards and graves.... The point is to keep them on that side of the ocean...

However, I do agree that if we are to fight an endless war that the war should be fought smarter and more economically.. Hence, the idea that a strong economy = a strong military!.... That is necessary to stay in the fight and to maintain a constant pressure on the enemy...

Pulling out will do nothing to solve anything.. It will not end the war... I really don't think some of you are able to grasp that reality...


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