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Black and white South Africans weigh in on U.S. election

Posted: Monday, October 20, 2008 9:41 AM
Filed Under: ,



JOHANNESBURG, South Africa – "America is used to being ruled by a white president," Lucky Mathye, a 22-year-old police reservist told me in the suburbs of Johannesburg. "America looks like a worldwide boss. They want all the power in the world and they don’t want to share it. Maybe [Barack] Obama will be a peacemaker."

South Africans of all colors are watching the upcoming U.S. elections very closely. America is the world’s oldest constitutional democracy, while South Africa is one of the youngest.

Image:Lucky Mathye
Hamilton Wende
Lucky Mathye is paying close attention to the U.S. election from Johannesburg, South Africa.

Yet, the parallels between the two countries are often striking, and sometimes ironic. Both countries have a history of segregation and racism. America has a white majority and black minority; in South Africa it is the other way around.

Looking for a change
While the brutal system of minority rule known as apartheid was at its height in South Africa in the 1960s, the United States led the way toward racial equality at home with leaders such as Martin Luther King speaking out against legal segregation and prejudice. With the election of Nelson Mandela as president of a democratic South Africa in 1994, the nation joined the United States in the global struggle against racism and for human freedom.

But, as Lucky pointed out to me, many South Africans have lost their respect for Washington following the war in Iraq and global economic meltdown, which many blame on the United States.

"I like [John] McCain," said Simon Ngobeni said. The 29-year-old is a driver and domestic worker who came to Johannesburg from the poverty-stricken northern region of South Africa to look for work for him and his wife Bongi and their small daughter Princess. "But those Republicans are the ones that have been governing now for the last 10 years, so I think a change would be good."

Image:Simon Ngobeni
Hamilton Wende
Simon Ngobeni, a truck driver in South Africa, has strong opinions about the U.S. presidential election.

Race – still a pervasive issue
Many Americans appear reticent about discussing race, preferring not to mention the subject at all, or speaking in carefully coded phrases where the true meaning of what is meant is obvious, but difficult to pin down in an exact sense.

Here in South Africa, the history of racial conflict has been so clear and such a pervasive reality that talking about race is much more open. The divisions between black and white have been such an undeniable truth of the society for over 350 years that people here prefer to acknowledge their existence rather than to pretend that they don’t exist. 

And Simon is no exception. Without my even asking, the black South African brought up the subject himself. "I don’t care whether McCain is white or Barack Obama is black. In America there is a good democracy so black and white is the same."

Lucky, on the other hand, is perhaps a little less sure that race doesn’t matter in the presidential elections, or certainly in its meaning for America’s place in the broader world, or for troubled countries on the continent like neighboring Zimbabwe.

"Obama is black, so he will be better for Africa. All African countries will support him, even Mugabe," said Lucky, also a black South African who was referring to President Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe. He paused to make his point clearer. "Mugabe hates white people because he thinks they are crooks and they want to steal his land. But with Obama maybe he will negotiate a settlement." Under Mugabe’s leadership, white-owned farms were seized by the government with the stated aim of benefiting landless black Zimbabweans, but instead, sharp declines in production have left the agricultural-based economy in tatters and many Zimbabweans are struggling to get by or have fled the country.

‘Obama will be better for us in Africa’
A few streets away I spoke to IT consultant Christian Barr, 35, in his small home office, surrounded by his two black Labradors "Cisco" and "Google."  As a white South African, who once served in the country’s armed forces during the last years of the violent and chaotic transition to democracy, he knows from first-hand experience just how painful change has been here.  

Image: Christian Barr
Hamilton Wende
Christian Barr follows the ins and outs of the U.S. election from Johannesburg, South Africa.

"There’s always more about Barack Obama on the Internet than there is about John McCain – so that tells you something right away.  I think he will be the first black president of America, and that is something to consider when you think of our history here in South Africa," Christian said.

"Obama will be better for us in Africa.  I am concerned about the conservative Americans – the Midwest states, they might vote for McCain. Whatever happens, though, Africans must come up with their own inventive ways to benefit from the U.S." he added.

As might be expected, Obama wins hands down in the popularity stakes among South Africans of all races. A Reader’s Digest Global Poll of over 17,000 people in 17 countries found overwhelming support for Obama in South Africa in particular – with 70 percent supporting the Illinois senator over McCain.

And as a journalist who travels frequently across the continent, I’ve seen widespread support for Obama among Africans of all stripes. In fact, a BBC World Service poll found 82 percent of respondents supported Obama in Kenya – not surprising since it was the birthplace of his father. But Obama was also favored by 71 percent of respondents in Nigeria – sub-Saharan Africa’s most populous nation.

For Africans it is simple, as Lucky said in a final thought:  "We want to taste the fruit of a black president!"

Click here for complete coverage of Decision '08 on msnbc.com

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Comments

We need to show the world that we have moved beyiond the days of the KKK, no matter how much the repugnant ones try to keep it like the old days of white supremacy.  Heck we need to show ourselves that we have evolved beyond the old hate crowd that the repugnant ones still cling to.

Time for a new kind of leadership in the White House, an honest approach that McNasty can never provide but Obama can.

Go Obama/Biden 08/12!
It's a sad commentary that it's newsworthy that white people support a Black man.  In 2008, we should not be a surprised that Black people AND white people support Sen. Obama. We should expect the world to support a well educated, polished, experienced, and composed leader.

And since we're on the subject of race, I'd like to point out that Kansas is the birthplace of Sen. Obama's mother. The world views Sen. Obama as "Black," which is fine.  But let's not forget that he is equally of Anglo descent as he is African.  In fact, he was raised by his white relatives. So his "race" should not define him; his character should.
Spot on guys, we want change too! It is up to the Americans though, but rest you assured those Republicans, especially Pres Bush did your country no good guys... We don't respect you anymore. A lot of work needs to be done to resore your international credibility... Good luck.

Lastly, I read somewhere one of Mr McCain's managers taking a swipe at Mr Obama's failure to "rescue his poor relatives" from poverty in Kenya... Geez! What a nerve! Can anyone stoop so low! Begs the question: Would he say that about an American family in the midst of an election in these dire economic times? Methinks not.. Shame on him to use a defenceless poor family for political expediency.
It is not only tasting the fruits of a black president but showing the world that balcks also have brains; contrarily to what some conservatives would have us believe. Also, Obama's election will help bring together all minds and resources in the world to fuster world peace and prsoperity. George W. Bush squandered the wealth and budget surpluses on the war in Iraq and sewed seeds of discord above and beyond what any other U.S president had done.  
It should read 'educated South Africans'. I speak to my domestic worker about politics regularly (as she always has some insightful comments) and she didn't even know that there was a black man running for President in the US which I am sure is true of a large majority of South African's.
"Many Americans appear reticent about discussing race, preferring not to mention the subject at all, or speaking in carefully coded phrases where the true meaning of what is meant is obvious, but difficult to pin down in an exact sense."  -- What on earth are you talking about?  That "coded phrases" idea is nothing more than a Leftist invention so that conservatives who support the rejection of White Supremacy could be accused of racism nonetheless.

For example, the call for "States' Rights" by Nixon and Reagan was not an appeal to racism, as partisan Democrats continue to claim, but rather was an assertion that, though federal suppression of state-mandated racial segregation was accepted, the federal government should encroach on the power of the individual states no further.
If the majority of S. Africans (Black and White) realize Obama is the best choice for presidnet, then why can't we...?
Obama will be good pres for everybody
What a surprise!
yes, its time in the USA to have a different face in the white house.  I am ready for a change.  I am ready to "W" get out of the white house, along with Cheney, Rice and the others.  They have systematically ruined this country.  Bring on Obama!  I too don't care what color the president is, just as long as he or she gets the job done!
WE COULD CARE LESS WHAT THE REST OF THE WORLD THINKS!
TRY MEDDLING IN YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT AND STAY OUT OF OURS!
Most of the people I am around, at work or at home, are all concerned with the general Marxism flavor of the Obama platform. We foresee difficult times for Americans, less rights, more government, more tax. I will vote for personal freedoms everytime.
it is plain that this site is pro obama! post something to the contrary and it will not be displayed! (this is to the moderators and not expected to be posted!) i now have no farther use for msnbc!
George Bush has done more for Africa then any other President in US history, yet you are supporting a Democrat? WOW!
scratch that last message!
What they don't realize is all american politicians are the worst crooks in the world they just found a legal way to rip people off.
Why does race have anything to do with it?!?  If Obama doesn't win the election, how does that mean America isn't "ready for a black president"?  Maybe he's just not the right one?  Does anyone really believe that everyone who supports McCain is racist?  If Obama loses this election, there will be a huge outcry or "racism" which is narrow-minded and pointless.  It has to do with the man and his politics/ideals/beliefs, not the color of his skin!
who cares? obama or mccain will just think for themselves
WE COULD CARE LESS WHAT THE REST OF THE WORLD THINKS!
TRY MEDDLING IN YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT AND STAY OUT OF OURS!
GENE, WOODWARD OKLAHOMA (Sent Monday, October 20, 2008 11:23 AM)

Very easy to say "Gene of Woodward Oklahoma" -but, don't you realize that what happens here in the United States will effect the world?! Grow up and educate yourself, before you make stupid idiotic statements... Barack is the BEST person for America whereas McCain/Lame/Shame/Pain is just what his name signifies.

GOBAMA/BIDEN
No Gene...  YOU could care less what the rest of the world thinks.  Some of us realize that our standing in the world is important... that to get anything done in the modern world, you need cooperation.  I think an Obama Presidency would be important for one very specific reason... It would change the tone of American foreign policy from one of "might is right" to the more humble one befitting a nation that has ignored its own shortcomings and its own domestic problems for far too long.
Yes, I dont care who is president, I have my vote and it will be cast, neither man is the best person for the job, and they truley have no power with on congressional consent.  But non Americans, who post on here, mind your own buisness and keep your opinion to yourself, i have traveled all over the world and I have witness first hand the benefits that we give away to countries who cant take care of themselves, i call it global welfare.  The economy will be up and down and mistakes will be made, but the rest of the world will make its mistakes too, but as you do the US will be there to help for what ever reason we keep doing that.
WE COULD CARE LESS WHAT THE REST OF THE WORLD THINKS!
TRY MEDDLING IN YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT AND STAY OUT OF OURS!
GENE, WOODWARD OKLAHOMA
First of all, I am a veteran. It is important what the rest of the world thinks about us.  I have traveled throughout the world in the past years and we are hated by so many countries. We were even advised not to walk on certain streets because they hated Americans mainly because of Bush.  
I talked to some of them and explained that my views were in no ways the same as his and that a lot of Americans hated him more than they did. They also commented on the invasion of Iraq. I too feel that it is a senseless war and that Bush and any person that supports this war are @$$holes.  We need someone to straighten out this mess and that can improve our image with other countries.  I feel Obama would do that.
Gene. Your statement is naive and foolish.  We need to work together on this planet and if the US is going to continue to play a leadership role it obviously matters very much what other countries think of us.  The fact that Bush didnt get that is just another example of what a moron he is.
It appears that the comments from Africans favor having Obama as President.  ACORN must be working there too.  Let's buy Obama a one way ticket to Africa and let him preside there.  Let him "spread the wealth" in Kenya. It would be great if he would take Pelosi and Reid with him.
Gene from Oklahoma: We live in a global society. Believe it or not, other countries pay very close attention to what happens in the U.S. And most of us Americans DO care about the opinions of others. If we expect to maintain our position as the World Leader, we must be able to count on the support of other countries. Open your eyes and see the big picture- we do not live in a box.

OBAMA 08!!!!

VOTE
"WE COULD CARE LESS WHAT THE REST OF THE WORLD THINKS!
TRY MEDDLING IN YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT AND STAY OUT OF OURS!"

That's interesting.....hmm....why should we care... let me think....does 9/11 ring a bell? The problem is that we don't care enough. So when you say this, speak for yourself. I for one do care because it is our standing in the world and how they see us that determines if there will be another 9/11. We need to show the world that we care not just about ourselves, but about the future of all.
Gene. Your statement is naive and foolish.  We need to work together on this planet and if the US is going to continue to play a leadership role it obviously matters very much what other countries think of us.  The fact that Bush didnt get that is just another example of what a moron he is.
Sounds as though U.S. welfare checks and food stamps are headed to South Africa,...and all that "change you can count on" is coming straight out of your hard-earned income.  Nevermind the 2008 outcome; let's see what happens to the congressional makeup come 2010 after the reality of socialist Osama's true agenda takes hold. Get the ball rolling now for Osama's impeachment.
For Fsilber in Tennessee who doesnt understand code phrases designed to mask racism and incite fear in the white population. Phrases such as "He is not like us", He's gonna spread the wealth, The new welfare, all that is designed to reinforce the white fear of blacks taking something from them (just like under Jim Crow) If a black or poor person gets a leg up somehow all white people lose.  There is a definition of Insanity widely known " It is doing the same thing over and over again expecting to get a different result" It time we are all judged as Americans we share this country, we share the glory, shame and the pain as Americans.
    The fact is, the United States has consistently attempted to bring democracy to the world and has fought despots.  We have not been perfect, but I would like for our readers to name one country that has spent as much of its American lives and treasure defeating the likes of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden and others.  Our country was started by people of white European descent, who created one of the most amazing politican systems in the history of mankind, a system that eventually led to this historical point, we have a presidential candidate (who would be considered white in most of Africa) who has black ancestary.  He is a Marxist
Gene wood OK.  Thats the kind of devilish attitude we must rid ourselves of quickly...
Ellington Carson, Boston, MA; Arturo, Chicago, Ill;and Gene
Take a good look at your jewelry collection. That came from their sweat and in some cases libs and lives.
If my money goes to people in need, that are going in mines every day for next to nothing pay, and don't have the resources to do any better that is fine with me. I would whether it go to them than people that are here with unlimited opportunities that are setting at home all day doing nothing, for example, some of your relatives.  
Gene ingenuously commented: "WE COULD CARE LESS WHAT THE REST OF THE WORLD THINKS!
TRY MEDDLING IN YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT AND STAY OUT OF OURS!"

Globalization is here for starters, and working with other countries DOES matter even if you keep your head in the ground like an Ostrich.
It is a GLOBAL society.  If you are so narrow minded to think that whatever the US does only affects the US or what other countries do only affects them then what about the AIDS epidemic?  What about our economy? China is buying BILLIONS of dollars worth of stocks in the US as well as lending us BILLIONS!\

As for those who say Obama will support wellfare and give "wellfare checks and foodstamps to Africa"....do you realize that with his plans LESS people will be on public assistance?  He will create more jobs, give the lower class tax breaks (those who need the assistance).  Under Republicans, expect more job loss, no increase in pay, and the same bums who are on loafing off of wellfare (there are many who need it) to stay there because it's easier, especially if there are no jobs to be had!

I really think anyone voting for McCain is not educated enough...read a book, read an article, read something so you're not so ignorant.
This is a very interesting year for America,I never thought I would live to experience what getting ready to happen on NoV 4 !!Congratulations Pres.Obama.
Here it is folks the number one reason people all over the world want Obama as President is bc of his race. In Europe they say it will be the end of racism in America. In the Middle East they say he will be a peace maker. In Africa they see he will identify with them though they forget Bush has spent 17 billion there. Like it or not race is the number one reason. To be fair I believe Obama will be fine but I worry about his spreading the wealth comment. I also worry about a Democratic super power. This happened under Republicans and it was a disaster. Balance is good, and this country cannot afford a single minded government. It needs to be diverse.
I am a South African. Much as I hated apartheid, let me remind you what happened to South Africa when apartheid ended. It was amazing! Everything went downhill from there! The medical system went downhill (the president blamed AIDS on poverty, said it was not caused by the HIV virus. Good grief!), the education system went downhill - last I heard you only need 25% to pass a class, unless you attend an institution where they can't fail you, which is also common. Imagine going to see a doctor who only needed 25% to pass medical school! Unemployment skyrocketed! A wonderful country to live in.
Some people say Obama's race shouldn't be an issue (although he is only half Black he nevertheless identifies himself with the Black culture not the White)but they ignore the fact that during the primaries Blacks aften voter in the mid to high 90% for him making it quite obvious that for Balcks race is indeed THE issue! Therefore White voters should vote accordingly and support McCain!
Sorry Nikelo, but South Africa's opinion of the US matters very little to roughly 50% of the CITIZENS of the United States. What does matter to us is the BILLIONS of OUR tax dollars hard at work being wasted trying to correct the behavior on YOUR continent that has wiped out millions of people through the spread of HIV/AIDS. That's MILLIONS of your people; which is a lot more harmful to the planet than my country's low-intensity and contained war in Iraq. Your respect/goodwill is not something we care about -- even though we are trying to save your contient from itself. However, you are welcome for my hard-earned taxe dollars. Enjoy!
Spot on Ellington. Couldn't agree more.
Also, It's obvious that the most racist folks are the Obama supporters. Voting for the man simply because he is black, is no better than voting against him for the same reason.
I find it so interesting that those who practise hatred for others past are the very ones who support McCain/Palin. You know, I am sick to death of those who call themselves christian conservatives and then support a party whose whole campaign consists of lies and smears. Thou shalt not bear false witness against your neighbot,thous shalt not commit adultery, seems to mean nothing to those who support him and his token choice for VP. With Palins terrorist cries and being found quilty of abuse of power do you really believe that you can call yourself a christian and vote for them? I am flabbergasted!!!  And what does your God require of you? Micah 6:8 Be fair, love mercy and walk humbly with your God. This only happens because they have no plan to save america...just a bunch of old tired rhetoric.
Gene, You are setting yourself up for the reeducation camp. You and Joe the Plumber if he or you say one more thing critical of Obama.
Those of you who don't care what the world thinks of us would do best to learn from Einstein who said: "It is best to be silent and be thought of as a fool than to speak and remove all doubt".  As it were, when the Middle Eastern countries view as favorably, less of our troops get killed and gas prices go down.  When Israel they feel secure and don't do things to further destabilize the region because they have faith in our leadership,  when China views us favoribly they loan us money so you can get your tax incentive check and invest in our companies and workforce, when Europe views as favorably they participate in global initiatives as staunch allies so we don't have to fight alone (Iraq and Afganistan ring a bell?), when Russia views as favorably they don't puff their chests and invade other countries, when the WORLD views us favorably they know that stability and leadership has been restored and the world rotates with that much less wobble.  So, keep on not caring what others think about us.  I wish I could afford that same level of ignorance as you...it would indeed be blissful.
America needs McPalin not the bamboozle that is being thrust upon us in Obama.
Terry W. Reed, Alvin, Texas wrote "Most of the people I am around, at work or at home, are all concerned with the general Marxism flavor of the Obama platform."
You, Terry, are one of those people who have let the conservative right dupe you into the belief that Democratic Socialism is the same as Communism. I suggest you look up the history. Karl Marx's beliefs which are termed generally as "Marxism" are actually the basis for Communism, not Socialism. There is a big difference between Communism and Socialism. If you think providing healthcare to all or trying to bring the lower to middle class up a bit in financial standings is either then you are indeed stupid.
WE COULD CARE LESS WHAT THE REST OF THE WORLD THINKS!
TRY MEDDLING IN YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT AND STAY OUT OF OURS

I see where you are coming from. While it matters, when was the last time you as an American were asked who should be Prime Minister, or President of some country in Africa? While the U.S. relationship with other countries matter, I think it is hardly necessary or even relevant to ask people in other counties who they think should be the next U.S. President.

and...
Grow up and educate yourself, before you make stupid idiotic statements... Barack is the BEST person for America whereas McCain/Lame/Shame/Pain is just what his name signifies.

What is this....Grow up...Barack is BEST...isn't that why we live America, so we can decide for ourselves and not have others opinions forced upon us or have someone else tell us what is best for us. But, if Barack is elected, get ready, there will be so much government intervention telling us all what to do we will look more socialist than democratic!
I think that is great that people of Africa support Obama, but they do not live in America and who cares what they think.  If they think Obama is so great, let him go there and rule their country.  We want and need someone who knows what he is doing to run our country.  There should be no on the job training for President.  Africa you can have him.  
For Gene and others.  America is always meddling in other countries. Panama, Grenada, Iran, Iraq, Cuba, just to name a few.  Given the nature of the world economy, why should not people in other countries be concerned about what happens in the USA?  You should travel more.
I do not like either side calling the other racists.  If you vote for Barak, I hope you vote bacause you believe in him - not because he's black. And the same for McCain voters - vote for McCain because you belive in him - not because Barak is black. And for those of you who say that people who don't vote for Barak are racists -shame on you - Some may vote for McCain because Barak is black - but the same will be true that some will vote for Barak simply because he is black. Let race out of this, and quit trying to nit-pick every one's words to claim "racism"...is childish on BOTH sides to be so claim racism where non exists!!!
OMG will you stop already highlighting what other countries think about who should win the election, its not up to them and who cares what someone from egypt or South AFrica thinks anyway.  Its our country its up to us.  What these articles have shown us is how ungrateful some of these other countries truly are with repect to how much aid and help this country has given them in theh past, and present.  Bunch of whinney ingrates, sound like a bunch of Obama supporter asking what the country can do for them and not what they can do for their country.  


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