ABOUT WORLD BLOG

NBC News World Blog aims to provide a dynamic look at world events and trends -- both big and small -- from NBC News correspondents, producers, and bureaus around the world. Online entries -- from text to video -- will explore news events and how they are shaping our world.

Regular contributors include NBC News correspondents, producers and staff based in bureaus across the world and on assignment.

Click here to read more about the journalists behind NBC News World Blog.



The ‘Talibanization’ of Pakistan’s biggest city

Posted: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 12:28 PM
Filed Under:

KARACHI, Pakistan – In the back of a jeep driving through Karachi, a sign on the wall of the city’s famous "Village Restaurant" caught my eye. It was just a little piece of frayed white paper plastered next to the restaurant’s much bigger logo, tempting customers to "Experience the Exotic of Traditional Dining." 

But the printed sign expressed an increasingly urgent plea in this teeming port city, once Pakistan’s capital: "Save your city from Talibanization," it said in English. 

But could the Taliban really be taking over Karachi? Karachi is Pakistan’s biggest city, far from the lawless tribal hinterland along the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan. 

Out there, Taliban and al-Qaida militants have carved out an independent state. In the mountains, militants have their own courts and even issue licenses to local business. Last week in the tribal area, the Taliban publicly executed a group accused of murders. In another village square, they flogged several butchers for allegedly selling the meat of sick animals. That is Taliban justice. 

U.S. military and intelligence officials consider that border area to be the world’s biggest, most dangerous safe haven for Taliban and al-Qaida fighters. Osama bin Laden, Mullah Omar and nearly all of their deputies have been based, and may still be based, in this often impassible mountain terrain. 

But I was in Karachi, a giant city on the Indian Ocean. If Karachi is being ‘Talibanized,’ Pakistan is in real trouble, and so is everyone else. 

Growing radicalism
Karachi has a history of Islamic radicalism. Wall Street Journal correspondent Daniel Pearl was kidnapped in front of the Village Restaurant in 2002. Pearl had been meeting contacts here. They were supposed to help him investigate Richard Reid, the "Shoe Bomber" who tried to blow up an American Airlines flight from Paris in December 2001. 

But Pearl’s meeting was a set up. The "contacts" turned out to be fanatic militants who kidnapped and beheaded him. I was about to discover the radicals’ presence in this city appears to have grown since then.

Traveling in Karachi is both overwhelming and exhausting. It is a colorful, chaotic and undeniably dirty city. Flocks of vultures circle the sky all day. Trash lines many of the streets.  As we drove from the Village Restaurant, our jeep darted around swarms of motorcycles, pickup trucks, rickshaws and even a sad looking camel pulling a cart stacked with barrels. 

Karachi, Pakistan street.
NBC News
An empty street in Karachi, Pakistan. 

We were headed to a neighborhood in west Karachi where I had been told al-Qaida and Taliban militants had established a safe haven. Many Pakistanis make little distinction between al-Qaida and the Taliban.  Both want to destabilize Pakistan and Afghanistan, establish an even bigger base of operations and spread their aggressive, intolerant vision of Islamic law. 

The majority of people in Karachi want no part of it. Karachi is Pakistan’s cultural capital, the center of the nation’s fashion, high-tech and media industries. But that Karachi is under siege. 

After about 30 minutes in traffic, our jeep arrived at the office of a local contact in a slum in west Karachi. Fearing for his safety, he didn’t want to be identified. I’ll call him Malik. He would take us deep into the alleys on the outskirts of Karachi, a neighborhood filled with brick homes built around cliffs and marble quarries. It would be unwise, Malik said, to venture in alone.

"It is too dangerous," he said. "The Talibans have their checkpoints, bunkers and snipers. At night, they patrol, sometimes on horses. They are always coming out with their weapons and RPGs intimidating people."

Malik said radicals have been flooding into Karachi since this spring, moving in from the border region. The border region is now a warzone, under attack by the Pakistani military and, controversially here, by U.S. drones and Special Operations Forces (SOF) that carry out raids from bases in neighboring Afghanistan. 

The Pakistani and U.S. military offensives have killed hundreds of militants, but scattered many more. Increasingly, they are settling in Karachi. Estimates of Karachi’s population range from 12 to 18 million. The lack of accountability makes the city a great place to hide, unless you look like I did as I descended from the jeep dressed in khakis and a blue shirt.

Malik and I were standing in front of one of west Karachi’s madrassas, a traditional Islamic school for boys.

"Are there any students inside," I asked a guard. He stared back at me blankly.  In less than a minute there were about 15 people around us. Several appeared to be madrassa students who had come out to see what a foreigner could possibly want from them.

"Are you all students at the madrassa?" I asked. A few said they were.

‘God willing, we will fight them’  
Many Pakistanis attend madrassas because they offer free education, supplementing the government’s lacking public school system.  For centuries madrassas were the only form of education in the Islamic world.  From Morocco to Indonesia, most madrassas have a similar layout, with a mosque at the center and classrooms upstairs.  The vast majority of madrassas are moderate charities that teach religious values, the Koran and the traditions of the Prophet Mohammed. 

But some madrassas in Pakistan have churned out suicide bombers indoctrinated in jihad and a paranoid but widespread philosophy that they must attack innocent civilians to defend their faith from the United States, Israel and other modern-day "crusaders."  

Former President Pervez Musharraf promised to reform and regulate Pakistan’s hard-line madrassas.  It never happened.  According to Karachi’s former mayor Farooq Sattar, there are now more than 2,000 illegal madrassas in Karachi alone. This was one of them.

"What do you think of the Taliban and their influence here?" I asked the students.

More blank stares.

"What do you think about the U.S. incursions?"

That got a reaction.

"God willing, we will fight them," said one teenager with a purple scar on his chin. "They are the enemy," he said and launched into a long explanation of America’s goal to occupy Muslim lands and undermine Islam. I’ve heard the same speech from Cairo to Lebanon, Baghdad to Riyadh. God bless the Internet.

A few minutes later my driver/fixer, a very tough guy from a very tough part of Pakistan, tapped me on the shoulder.

"I think you have been here long enough," he said. It was time to go.

But I still hadn’t seen any Taliban.  

Malik suggested we go deeper into the slum, to the neighborhood right under the cliffs and quarries.  He was nervous about taking a foreigner, but had an idea. There was a graveyard in the area.

"We can pretend to be offering prayers for the dead," Malik suggested.  "I’ll pray over one of the graves and you can see the neighborhood for yourself."

Malik said praying at a gravesite would give us an excuse to be in the area and raise less suspicion. 

‘You should not be here’
It didn’t exactly work. As soon as I stepped out of the jeep by the gravestones, I was again surrounded by a group of people. They didn’t have weapons or appear threatening, but didn’t attempt to hide their sympathies for the Taliban. One man proudly told me several suicide bombers had prayed in a nearby mosque.

But others were scared of the Taliban. A man who spoke English told me the Taliban were in control of the area.

"Do the Pakistani police or soldiers ever come here?" I asked him.  "No, they can’t come here."

"How do people feel here?"

"We are all frightened. The Taliban has taken over."

More men, athletically built in their 20s and 30s, started to arrive.

"Who are these people?" I asked the English speaker.

"They are Taliban."

"Do they understand what we are saying?  Do they understand English?"

"No, but you shouldn’t stay here. It is not comfortable here. You should not be here."

"Who runs this neighborhood?"

"They do." 

The new arrivals didn’t want to be interviewed.

"Stop asking them questions," the English speaker advised. 

We left a few minutes later. 

"We couldn’t come here at night," Malik said as we were driving out of the neighborhood.  "Now we had an excuse to come to the graveyard.  But at night, there would be no reason to be here."

‘It’s sad’
Driving back to the hotel, I kept thinking how a neighborhood in Karachi could be so tense and apparently out of control. In less than two hours, and without any prior arrangements, we’d managed to get to an area full of Taliban supporters and where many locals were clearly terrified.

As I walked back to my hotel room, I passed an old man in the hallway. 

"I didn’t know you people were still coming here," he said.  By "you people" I assumed he meant foreigners.

"Yes, a few. Not many of us," I admitted.

"I didn’t think anyone would be coming anymore," he added, saying he was upset by the bombing of the Marriott Hotel in Islamabad, one of the centers of social life for Pakistan’s shrinking expatriate community.

"It’s sad," he said. "It’s sad it’s come to this."

"Yes, it’s sad," I agreed.

MAIN PAGE

Email this EMAIL THIS

Comments

This was real journalistic work not seen in recent times.  Gutsy, taking real risks, asking real questions.  Great reporting, Richard!  This has more value-added than most intelligence and political analysis of the government because it actually goes into those neighborhoods, alley-ways and dirt-roads that most government officials can't.  Policy-makers should be reading this and be taking notes.  
ken blankenship: US soldiers would get a thrashing if they dared coming into pakistan again. iraq would seem like a picnic compared to what the US army would face in that region. there are no taliban out in the open. mr. engel has written an out of touch article. the world 'taliban' simply means student. there are plenty of them in karachi who study at madrassas. they are not all from the border areas. end of discussion.

kman: karachi is as safe of a city as any other in the world with 16 million people. i bet you that the rate of violent crime in karachi is lower than washington DC. second, israel does not consider pakistan an enemy and neither does pakistan. any foray into pakistani airspace by the israelis would be a mistake. israel is  not the US and pakistan is not iraq.
i spent some time in Karachi 25 years ago with the military during the Soviet adventure in Afghanistan. substitute American for Soviet and everything sounds the same now as it did then. Pakistan also has a Sunni/Shia split that was not mentioned, nor the fact that he was in a Sunni slum. When the real killing begins look for the Shia to be on the receiving end.
I LIVE IS rawalpindi called ARMY GARRISON which is joint city of islamabad. the pakistan capital. i hav,nt saw any taliban elements in heart cities like karachi, where i usually goes to meet my uncle there, its all propoganda of MQM that taliban activities r increasing in karachi, but i agree that many madrass in notheren areas are taliban elements, creating problems in heart ciries of pakistan, and we have taken more than 1500 sacrifices of our soldiers more than afgan or US alley forces,  our country is meeting them with bare hand, so how can someone say we should do more. we took more than 500,000 refugee from tribal area just to elminate taliban elements.so no need to worry about karachi
When I think of Karachi, I think of a financial hub and port city of Pakistan, throbbing businesses and industries, some great authentic restaurants, a nerve center of Pakistan's economy. But unless and until there is no true democracy, corrupt politicians and army officers will continue to pad their swiss bank accounts and continue to harvest the crop of extremism because that is what is going to keep western coffers open for them in order to fight terrorism. Please do not forget that Pakistan along with UAE was the countries who recognized barberic Taliban regime in Afghanistan and continues to do so well after 9/11. Please check News archives and you will find umpteen number of speeches by Mussarraf defending Taliban. Taliban was created and nurtured by Benazir Bhutto when she was prime minister. Even today Pakistani Intelligence (ISI) covertly supports taliban... hence the main reason for yesterday's shakeup in ISI department. Under USA /CIAs nose Pakistan has created and nurtured this fundamentalism in order to fight proxy war in Kashmir. US always looked other way and added fuel by supporting every move with defence/arms aid and civilian aids to put the food on the dining table of near bankrupt nation. US recently supplied spare parts for F-16 warplanes to Pakistan. Just a couple of weeks ago, pakistan shot at NATO(US) helicopters at pakistan/afghan border on the pretext of defending the sovereignty of Pakistan. Days are not far, when American F-16s will be used by Pak Army against NATO/American forces. Only after 9/11, US has realized that US and world at large is not immune from the monster of religious fundamentalism that they have directly or indirectly helped to grow and refused to acknowledge its existence while 60,000 innocent people perished in pakistan sponsored so called Mujaheedin terrorism. Saudi Arabia is root cause of terror financing in Pakistan. With Saudi funding, thousands of so called Madressas have mushroomed which impart fundamentalist education to young kids in the name religion.

The problem is not going to disappear until US and Pakistan has a political will to address that. Killers of Daniel Pearl are still walking free in Pakistan and US has no guts to take the issue with them. World's second most dangerous man A Q Khan responsible for nuclear proliferation is still protected in Pakistan under the garb of house arrest. US has no access to him yet for questioning. Bush regime has only worked to cover up the issue. When US needed to look other way in Afghan war, they decided to get into Iraq on the pretext of fighting terrorism.

Not only Pakistan still protects the so called banned terror organizations in their soils, but also continues to protect and aid them. If you are not convinced, look at the following news item that just came down to wire! Pakistan government providing bullet proof armor vehicle to the chief of terrorist organization.  

Wake up the people of America and western world... and learn historical facts and current world affairs. Do not forget that McCain was still defending Pakistan in his first presidential debate.

Hope good sense would prevail...

-------------
Pak allows LeT founder to import bullet proof car
Agencies
Tuesday, September 30, 2008  22:09 IST

ISLAMABAD: The Pakistan government has granted permission to the chief of the Pakistan-based terrorist group, Lashkar-e-Toiba, Hafiz Mohammad Saeed, to import a duty free bullet-proof Land Cruiser, worth Rs 25 million.

According to the interior ministry sources in Islamabad, the LeT chief, who fears a possible attempt on his life by his “external enemies”, had sought the government permission to import a duty free bullet proof Land Cruiser in view of the rising number of terrorist acts across Pakistan.

The sources said that after some lengthy deliberations on the issue, the government has decided to give him a go ahead to import a fully armoured Land Cruiser for his use from Dubai. It was for the first time that the leader of a banned jehadi group had made such a request to the government and it is also for the first time that the government has acceded to such a request.
If Karachi goes to the Taliban.....  Wow!!!  that is incredible -such a failure of the Pakistan government.  What was Musharraf's office up to all those years? Or perhaps this was the plan all along. It does make you wonder.
Thank again for  working you agenda . You neon-cons and chicken-hawk never get TIERD lies . This is home of the braves not chickens?? So stop scaring us. It's not working. NONE OF THE MUSLIM WORLD IS ASKING FOR OUR HELP YET WE STILL WANT TO (SO CALL) HELP THEM ,TAKE THEIR OIL,GAS,DIAMOND,GOLD. WE ARE THE BIGGEST BULLY IN THE WORLD.
After reading this, I have no doubt about who should be president. McCain is is out of touch.
This is a big lesson for the next President of the US. The 'war on terror' must be fought on several fronts and involve more than military action because terrorism is global. There should be global efforts to fight terrorism; the US can lead the global effort or should attempt to do so, by involving the world countries. This will take leadership not rhetoric during the Presidential election time. Fighting against Taliban and al-Quaida is going to take efforts to understand Afghan and Pakistani cultures, their way of life and mindset.  Just a military action is probably a monumental misstep.
There was a time when I would read an article like this and believe it complicitly. Now, with all the mainstream media bias today, especially left leaning like NBC, immediately I analyze the story not on its merit but rather the underlying motive behind its publication. I'm sure it has something to do with influencing the readers' opinion of the administration or conservatives in general. Just the fact that because of this I, and many others, think that way now when we read/view the news is a shame. Journalism died in 2008.
I saw a few unjustified McCain bashes up there, but you can't really think Obama will be better at anything. Just remember ZERObama executive experience and you fully understand that we need a man like McCain to run this country.

Understanding the politics, people and their territories is crucial to understanding the problems governments face. The US cannot fix every bad situation on this planet. At this point, we need to focus on our own issues and those we are close to. If we keep our noses out of most of the "problem areas" in the world, it is likely they will leave us alone for the most part.

The bottom line on this whole middle east thing is that we should have went to Saudi Arabia. After all, they had 15 of the 19 terrorist in the 911 attacks. Going to Saudi Arabia would have resulted in thousands if not tens of thousands of American deaths and the whole world would have suffered as oil production would have stopped. Not to mention that if we attacked Saudi, there would have been a stronger involvment by all the Islamic countries. So we striked a deal with the Saudis and our friends and settled on Afghanistan and eventually Iraq.

My point is, you see politics are 100% involved and a child like Obama may have taken us to Saudi Arabia.

Another point is, that there is extreme diversity in Pakistan and the territory surrounding it. Islam and Hindu, Dictators and Democracy, sexism and equality, stone age and modern age. You can't compare it to the US or any other country as it has it's own set of rules. In my view, Pakistan should have never been separated from India, but it was. So now the world must sit back and let Pakistan determine it's own destiny.
I really don’t think we Americans understand the Pakistan people.  Their ways, their life styles, their justice system if you want to call it that.   Their nothing there we can identify with.  The Russians tried to change things there and failed.  Now we are there for what and at what cost?  Why do we always have to be the liberators when the rest of the world sits around and watches us get spit on, abused and destroyed?  How about if we just focus on defending our borders, our interests and our needs.  For being peace loving nation we sure know how to start a war.    
Richard Engel, Most liked over there for sure ,They all respect him because he tells the facts,And is The Best Reporter Ive Ran across: God Keep you safe:
Actually Karachi is filled with police, paramilitary, and general gomers with shotguns outside of every restaurant and car dealership. It's not really a place where the Taliban are likely to be. Keep going on those sightseeing tours! I'm sure you'll eventually get to a militant group that isn't made up by your tour guide.
The biggest eye-opener about Pakistan is that it's nothing like the mainstream media want you to think. More than a couple of times I had people just come up to me, shake my hand, and impress upon me how they're not terrorists. Unlike Captain Fearmonger who scares away tourists and impoverishes the locals as a result.
Its amazing how one article can make so many people think they know it all.  Internet, in lot ways, is the mother of all ignorance.
I am extremely concerned when an unstable country posseses nuclear arms.
The time is coming nigh for another global conflict. Many young men will die and America will refill it's coffers with the gold of combatant nations. This is the pattern of the world. Get used to it, for it will never change as long as there are humans. Don't blame the American leadership. It simply isn't their fault. No one and nothing can disrupt the patterns of human social evolution.
Karachi is NOT the cultural capital of Pakistan. The Cultural Capital is in Lahore. Karachi has been ruined by a combination of the MQM, the Rampant Corruption, and the work of Mullahs. The Mullahs have ruined Pakistan. Pakistan was once a beautiful and great country, but these bearded morons are ruining it! As a country Pakistan has made no Progress since the departure of the British. Shame on all Pakistan for allowing this to happen to our country. Jinnah must be spinning in his grave, because this CAN NOT be what Jinnah Dreamed and worked so hard to create! We must stop killing ourselves and come together to take back our country!
PAKISTAN ZINDABAD
What was long considered a Hindu problem has now soured into a global issue. We have been shouting ourselves hoarse telling y'all that Pakistan is ripping you off, using your money to increase terrorism. Why? They are nice people, right? Yes, they are nice people, since they have to appear nice victims and helpful friends to get into your deep pockets! The masterminds of terrorism are here, the Arabs (no insult meant) are like bulls who attack a red flag.
It is truly a shame and we are to a large part to blame. Afganistan has been largely forgotten by this administration. The rise of the taliban in particular is most unforunate. Anyone with so little tolerance of others is a blight. They corrupt the koran to their own ends and abuse women because they are afraid of them. What a shame.
Afgan, Pakistan, Iraq, take care of yourself, do whatever, but stay out of the U.S.  We don't want anything that you have.  Come here, die here!
Pull out every American, now, from that entire area.
Let them go at it amongst themselves; country against country, region against region, thisIsalamicStyle .vs. thatIslamicStyle, tribe against tribe.  They are still stuck on feudal systems from the middle ages.  There will never be a strong, relatively honest government in those countries.  Let them do their own housecleaning.
When the populations have been thinned out; then deal with the negative survivors and help the positive survivors
Scary as it is, our military will have to chase the taliban all over the middle east and Asia. Unfortunatley, until the rest of the world feels the same threat as Israel,Great brit,and the US; innocent people will die, trains, busses and hotels will blow-up,and buildings will fall. I wish the next President (who ever) is not only brave enough to fight this fight. But is able to communicate and rally the support needed to fight it. I believe we have 2 choices that cannot do both. It is going to be a scary 4 years.
Every large city has its dangerous places, rife with criminals and bad people. There are places on the south side of Chicago that even the police don't want to go either. It's not that easy to completely eliminate all criminal elements, especially when they do most of their deeds under the shield of darkness.
Its disgusting to see so many people rushing to a conclusion without questioning the author of his experience, his location, areas he visited. Everything is shoved under a carpet, a fiction is presented and people are congratulating him for a "brave journalism".
This latest report by Richard Engel is very foreboding. To recall that our CIA-special operations-US Rangers units  came very close in late 2001 to locate and kill bin Laden and his henchmen near Tora Bora (not to be confused with the South Pacific eden, Bora Bora) is very frustrating! Check out the books on this in a Borders...the Russian war in Afghanistan should be a precursor to what will happen to us and our allies which are getting fewer by the month.  Pakistan has nukes in which India is the main enemy, not the Taliban, I guess.  
Sir,
I think it has been over 555 years of USA support and alliance with Pakistan.  Look what is happening to Pakistan.  It has become a terorist State endangering India and world.
USA policies are failed policies.  New ideas are needed.  I have new ideas.  Would you contact me? I am not sure.  This is just a wasteful excercise.  No one wants to know how to solve global issues.  They cannot think outside the box.

Sincerely,
Santosh C. Verma
Diamond Bar, CA, USA
This latest report by Richard Engel is very foreboding. To recall that our CIA-special operations-US Rangers units  came very close in late 2001 to locate and kill bin Laden and his henchmen near Tora Bora (not to be confused with the South Pacific eden, Bora Bora) is very frustrating! Check out the books on this in a Borders...the Russian war in Afghanistan should be a precursor to what will happen to us and our allies which are getting fewer by the month.  Pakistan has nukes in which India is the main enemy, not the Taliban, I guess.  
I like the idea proposed by Naeem from Chicago. By creating a fedration and bringing the two contries back together we will be taking a giant step towards undoing the fundamental mistake made by British when they created the two nations of India and Pakistan, the price for which the innocent people of both the countries are paying thru their blood over last 60 years.
t is hilarious and really scary to read some of the comments saying 9-11 was a "setup" by the American government, or responsible for the Daniel Pearl's murder.   It is this uneducated, baseless accusations that lead young people in Karachi to join these awful groups like the Taliban.  It is individuals like this that will lead to instability in Karachi and the rest of Pakistan.  The majority of good people in Karachi will suffer as a result.  
I hope your family approved of this trip. What would they do if anything happened to you? Was it worth it? With no protection and a blue shirt with khakis? That is too insane!! Too scary.
Pakistan was carved out of India without the consent of Indian People. An illegitimate nation founded on hate towards Hindus; has failed to reconcile its identity problem at personal and national level: Arab or Indian, Middle-East or India, whose history to adopt Indian or Arabian. By conversion to Islam they rejected Indians and its culture; but upon admission to Islam they were dismissed by Arabs as inferiors. This apparent complex has transformed Pakistanis to create a surreal identity and then assert it with force. So this pseudo-identity called Taliban is on a raise even after 60years.
One way to curb the Taliban and the Al Qaeda would be to intercept their funding?
But who is funding them?
The money mostly comes from Rich Arabs, private citizens and officials who, for one reason or another sympathize with the Islamists.
But how do those Arabs get to have so much money to basically fund an insurgent war against the mighty United States?
By selling us Oil for hundred dollars plus, that is how.
Now, believe me, I am no bleeding heart liberal, and were it not for the above mentioned reason, I would   not be advocating alternate energy.
But I am sorry, moving away from Petroleum is our only chance against the Taliban/Al Qaeda combine.
To Sultan Ashhad:
I am going to assume that you’re probably not from this country due to the obvious ignorant stance you have taken against the USA. Since you are that stupid, here is the correct version of what you said and a brief hsiroty lesson for you as well shall we: Yes we dropped two bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, a non-disputable fact of history. However, have you ever heard of a little event called, "the day that will live in Infamy?" Japan attacked us; we were not involved in WWII whatsoever. Once that happened, yes we declared war on Japan and the rest is again history. As for Vietnam, this is how we got involved as a nation. France controlled Vietnam up until WWII when Japan took it over. After WWII Japan was forced to give up the area. Vietnam began a strong Nationalist movement in the time that followed when France began to regain control of Vietnam. They fought up to where the line between North and South Vietnam used to exist. They later gave up after a bloody battle at Dienbenphu. Up until this point the US had merely been funding the war. The US was funding it for two reasons: one, to improve relations with France, and two, to stop the spread of communism. However after the French lost the US sent troops in (in smaller amounts at first) to keep North Vietnam from taking over South Vietnam thus making it Communist. That is how we got into Vietnam, which again try reading a history book was never declared a war by our government but rather a police action (why so limited troops on our part). My dad spent the first two years of my life over there in a medical unit. So before you question the ethics of a country you don’t belong to, a little research might be in order.
God Bless America
From a retired Navy veteran
DMH
First of all, India-Pakistan union will never happen--to those Indian readers writing comments. If a small landmass like Europe can be split into so many countries then I am sure a huge subcontinent can be split into 2 pieces.

Second of all, Karach is one of the most TOLERANT cities. I am sorry but the last time I heard of a christian or a Hindu bashing didn't come from karachi but from an INDIAN CITY.

Third of all, these so called "TALIBANS" are being termed by karachi majority population who want to call PASHTUNS from the frontiers TERRORISTS due to their ethnic-linguistic and even racial differences.

KARACHI IS THE MELTING POT OF PAKISTAN.
If a great country like AMERICA can exist, which once was thought to be the biggest blunder by the Europeans in her early age due to her so many differences, then PAKISTAN CAN EXIST.

ITS ONLY BEEN 50 YEARS...WHERE WAS US IN 50 YEARS?
give Pakistan a chance and it will suceeed.

IN 50 YEARS THIS COUNTRY HAS ACCOMPLISHED ALOT, FROM ITS MILLITARY TO ITS ROARING MIDDLE CLASS.
let's not forget this nation was dirt poor--poorer than sub-saharan african countries during that time--and now it stands as a middle income nation with a rising middle class.

GOD BLESS PAKISTAN
Agreed, G.W. has missed the mark in many ways. BUT, lets deal with some facts. 37 days into Bill Clinton's Presidency, members of an Al Qaeda cell drove a truck bomb into a parking garage at the World Trade Center and detonated it. Millions in property damage and people were killed. Clinton's response [NOTHING] The USS Cole was attacked by Al Qaeda and 17 of our sailors were killed. Bill Clinton's response [NOTHING} Al Qaeda attacked our Embassy's and other interests around the world; Bill Clinton's response [NOTHING] Oh, I'm sorry, he cruise missled an Aspirin factory in the Sudan. Bin Laden is offered up to Bill Clinton on a Silver Platter and; you got it, he declines the offer. Is it any wonder why Al Qaeda felt emboldened to attack on 911. By the way, while there is no evidence linking Iraq to the 911 attack, there is irrefutable evidence linking Saddam Hussein to the attack 37 days into the Porno Presidents first term. Oh yeah, Al Gore; the "alternative" to G.W. at the end of Clinton's presidency, is on record of having stated he wouldn't even have ventured into Afganistan in pursuit of Bin Laden. Another little factoid for you; the planning for 911 is documented to have started in 1998, two years before G.W. was elected. I for one, trust John MaCain with this nations security FAR more than Obama. An Obama presidency would signal it's open season on U.S. interests again, just like when Clinton/Gore were in charge.
Bullocks ! this is the indeed the new drama that america wants the rest of the world to believe in. Sadly, there are local people who support america on this absolutely rubbish story of talibanization of Pakistan. Pakistan is a soverign independent state, well capable of defending and protecting its interests. The reason that america & co (Israel mainly) have got their dirty eyes fixed on Pakistan is the Nuclear weapons. America created Talibans to fight russians, any idiot can well understand that talibans could not have stood a chance against Russia without US support. Now that they have achieved their goal, move on, lets have a base in Afghanistan and Iraq, keep an eye on Iran on one side and on pakistan on other side, because they are the last threat to US and Israel's dirty ideology. Shame on you, US & Israel !!
Agreed, G.W. has missed the mark in many ways. BUT, lets deal with some facts. 37 days into Bill Clinton's Presidency, members of an Al Qaeda cell drove a truck bomb into a parking garage at the World Trade Center and detonated it. Millions in property damage and people were killed. Clinton's response [NOTHING] The USS Cole was attacked by Al Qaeda and 17 of our sailors were killed. Bill Clinton's response [NOTHING} Al Qaeda attacked our Embassy's and other interests around the world; Bill Clinton's response [NOTHING] Oh, I'm sorry, he cruise missled an Aspirin factory in the Sudan. Bin Laden is offered up to Bill Clinton on a Silver Platter and; you got it, he declines the offer. Is it any wonder why Al Qaeda felt emboldened to attack on 911. By the way, while there is no evidence linking Iraq to the 911 attack, there is irrefutable evidence linking Saddam Hussein to the attack 37 days into the Porno Presidents first term. Oh yeah, Al Gore; the "alternative" to G.W. at the end of Clinton's presidency, is on record of having stated he wouldn't even have ventured into Afganistan in pursuit of Bin Laden. Another little factoid for you; the planning for 911 is documented to have started in 1998, two years before G.W. was elected. I for one, trust John MaCain with this nations security FAR more than Obama. An Obama presidency would signal it's open season on U.S. interests again, just like when Clinton/Gore were in charge.
The issue is, the more educated people are, the less likely they are to take a stand that will put them in harms way. They are the ones who have the most to loose if the decided to stand up.

Which is what has been happening in Pakistan over the last 60 years. Its not that they dont have moderates who want development -- its just that the people who who want radical Islam are more willing to take up violence to spread their thought processes. Hence the violent factions have been slowly increasing their scope of influence to the point that today parts of Karachi have fallen victim to radical Islam.

What Pakistan needs today is for educated people to recognize that radical Islam is like a truck with no brakes gaining momentum on a steep downhill. The sooner they decide to have a "no tolerance " policy the easier it will be for them to stop this truck.
Talibans were never against America, there must be something that turned them against America.
They are equipped with the necessary tool and experience of war  through fighting Russians and yes they are deadly. But now the things have changed after what they did to the people of pakistan, killing innocent poor people in suicide bombings, we don't like them at all. Talibanization can never happen in Pakistan as we love aur country same as american love their, we wont let it happen. But for that America should stay out of Pakistan and let us deal with talibans our way because we know the ground realities better and we can deal with them better than anybody else.
As an American, we are damed if we do and damed if we don't, on ALL levels.  The other countries are making their own problems because they won't stand up for themselves.  If the countries are too POOR to defend themselves, how about a bounty on each taliban and al-Qaida fighter of two million dollars (US of course), not on their leaders???  That would be cheaper for us, to date, and stop recuitment wouldn't it???  We should stop giving away our BILLIONS and spend them on our country and people and military.  How many times are we suppose to save the world anyway????  Send the UN to France too!  
Reading this article just elevates my passion for becoming a journalist. Thank you very much Mr. Engel.

At the same time, reading other posts shows me a similar trend. Americans are surprised by the "Talibalization", while locals of Karachi are hurt that we're being exposed to this kind of news.

Mr. Engel wrote an amzing article and should be commended for his courage. At the same time he should have also explored different views from different classes of society.

All in all, I support this article, and support the statement that Senator McCain doesn't know what he's talking about, and we should get out of Iraq asap!
Instead of pointing fingers of blame I sure would like to see the Democrats joining to help ealwith this problem. Sort of like the Mortgage bail out, Pelosi couldn't wait until the deal was done to make a speech blasting the GOP.

You'd almost think the Dems were tearing down everything and wanted everything to fail just so they could point fingers hmmm....

The tactics that have worked in Iraq will soon be put into use in Afghanistan as Iraq stabilizes more and goes to the Iraqi gov't, and troops rotate out. Pakistan will be tricky because they apparently don't want US help, even with the Al Quaeda and Taliban types already declaring Jihad against them.
Thanks for your efforts and courage to give this  report.  One of the commenter's  said this was only one side.  We get the other all the time with the state visits and positive press about lawyers trying to get a Supreme Court Justice reinstated.  Its these stories we don't hear.  That the people don't want this and the young ones are given little support in order to avoid radical islam.

We have  a similar thing here where their are neighborhoods of thugs and gangs (all young) and not valued.  The people live in fear of stray bullets.  Ours  is not radical ideaolgy that causes it though.  But it is similar.
I think that we need to stop sticking our noses into other countries' business and worry more about how the US economy is going down the tubes and how our own government is failing and corruption and greed is taking over overwhelmingly. We need to leave those countries alone and let them figure out their own way. Enough is enough already, we are not the father, the babysitter nor the police of the entire world. Look at Russia and EU, do you see them invading every country? NO!
Amir - Last time I checked there were no Indians [Hindus, Muslims or Sikhs] trying to blow up people in Europe and America. Neither were whole parts of India controlled by Islamic Terrorists.
So, my friend, If Pakistan can only be saved by a reunion with India, then trust me, the free world is still powerful enough to make it happen.
This war has been going on since mohammad. the orgin of the muslium religion started in violence, this is not just about them wanting the land. it's a religious war. no matter what we do they have taught this belief in the children that grow up. I strongly fear for both paki and all the other countires over there, cause it's only going to get worse. they have taught this belief in their children so evenif we did get rid of them, their children would just grow up to do even worse to us. talking with them and trying to "understand" them won't help. cause even in understanding them they are not going to change their belief. at this point we need to keep a close eye on them. help paki and all the other countries tring to fight them and make sure they do not get ahold of necular weapons. do we not see the next world war will be when they get necular power? they are stronger than we would like to believe. did we really think that they were only in those moutians? how are we shocked to find out that they are taking over cities? they are experts at hiding so I believe they are in more countires than we think and it's beyond the lets go get em. we are worried about osama. he is not our biggest worry, if osmama dies or is captured, do we not think they don't have a plan for that? he's old they don't expect him to live forever and he is not the only person that runs them. they are a people they have bus, lives, rules(granted not the one's we live by) so just like we are covered if something happens to our president they are covered if something happens to theirs. we need to look at more than just sending troops to get osmama and getting them out the moutians cause all that is doing is spreading them to other coutries, and when they go to new countries they are spreading their belief, and their views and they will just get bigger and stronger. we should be prepairing ourselves to handle them like we would handle someone as strong as us. we keep look ing at them like they are not a country so not to big of a worry just a terroist group. but have they not shown us they are a much bigger threat than that. they were the only ones since pearl harbor to give us such a big blow on our own land. doesn't that show us and they have grown since then and gotten more and more people and power. lord help us all. if we don't work with the coutries that are right there. i.e Paki, afan, ect. ect. help them fight them now and make them go back in the moutains.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
What would we think if someone invaded our country?
As a Pakistani now living in Canada I would appreciate to say that what Richard say is the growing trend in Karachi my home for 27 years.  My family come to Canada 3 years ago as my father dissapeared one day attending to his shop for which he owed from his father 20 years ago.  Talibs in our area operate a gangs praying on businessman and people for safety money.  This is what happened to my father and he would not pay.  Instead, for us we left Karachi to be safe in Canada. It is best for USA and Canada to be there with soljers because Pakistani law does not protect Pakistani people.


SEND A COMMENT

PLEASE READ: All comments must be approved before appearing in the thread; time and space constraints prevent all comments from appearing. We will only approve comments that are directly related to the blog, use appropriate language and are not attacking the comments of others.

Message (please, no HTML tags. Web addresses will be hyperlinked):

TRACKBACKS

Trackbacks are links to weblogs that reference this post. Like comments, trackbacks do not appear until approved by us. The trackback URL for this post is: http://worldblog.msnbc.msn.com/trackback.aspx?PostID=1469342

Syndicate This Site

Add World Blog to your news reader:
live.com xml
myyahoo msn
bloglines newsgator
google

Interactive

Fight for Iraq
Learn more about the ethnic, religious and political power plays in and around Iraq during a briefing of the region led by NBC’s Richard Engel.