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For weary Iraqis, U.S election smells of ‘honey promises’

Posted: Monday, September 29, 2008 9:21 AM
Filed Under: ,



By NBC News' Karim Hilmi

BAGHDAD – A few weeks ago, Arab satellite channels were airing live coverage of the Democratic Party convention. At a cafe in my Baghdad neighborhood, the TV was tuned into the goings-on in Denver.

The cafe was full, as it is usually is after working hours. But hardly a head was pointed in the direction of the TV as the Democratic Party raised its collective voice to welcome Barack Obama. Most just kept playing dominos, backgammon, cards and drinking tea and Pepsi.

VIDEO: Iraqis not holding much hope for change with U.S. election

That’s despite the fact that Obama has some Islamic roots – his father was raised a Muslim and the presidential candidate spent four or five years in predominantly Muslim Indonesia as a child – and that he and his Republican opponent, John McCain, have divergent opinions on their handling of Iraq’s future.

Why? Busy lives – and a weary fatalism born of 25 years of Saddam Hussein and five-and-a-half years of American occupation.

'Merely faces to be changed'
Just a few friends sitting near me in the cafe talked about the election, and only then because they were prompted by my questions as to who they would prefer as the next U.S. president.

"I don't give a crap who wins or loses," said Safa, a mechanic in his mid-30s. "What good did Bush do to the Iraqi people? Only death and devastation."

The conversation started to warm up a little. "Don't you forget that Bush made us get rid of Saddam, or else we would still be ruled by him and his party and wearing khaki," said Adnan, a plumber, referring to the military uniform he wore in the Iraqi army for about 15 years.

"But don't forget also that Saddam used to give power, water and full foodstuffs through the ration card," chimed in Saman, who is a member of the peshmerga, a Kurdish paramilitary group that fights for a free Kurdish state. "But this government robs us and makes us die in life."

Khalid, a merchant in his late 50s, jumped into the mini-debate.

"In my opinion Saddam, the Americans and the new Iraqi government are all the same – they have done nothing to help Iraqis.

"Bush, McCain or Obama, they are merely faces to be changed," he added, "but the policy is the same and the non-actions and honey promises will be the same."

And then just as quickly the debate died.

''I hear the sound of the mill," said Akram, the owner of the café, "but I don't see any flour."

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The Republician are full of Crap, but so are the Democrats.  Any chance we could get back to being Americans??????
like any foreign country, they were happy when we arrived and pissed when we stayed.
-As far as I am concerned with all the money, time, and effort we might as well have made iraq a new US territory and taken control of the oil fields. Then there would be a monetary payoff and we would have better control of the deviants who want to harm the american people.    
                how is it any different than when the spanish took what is now latin america and brought their tech an ideas to the natives. or northwest europe to North America? why r we now today so affraid of imperialism. its not like we would kill everyone who isnt a log cabin republican
This is clap-trap.  How many times did we hear that "Millions of Iraqis are starving to death" by the MSM???  Come on, you heard it...
Ration cards I can believe, but if they got 'full foodstuffs through the ration card' then CNN;NBC etc. have been filling you ears with crap.
Iraq has been way too expensive. The US military is not the type to be an "OCCUPATIONAL ARMY" although we did that after WW2 in Germany and Japan, but they had no active resistance against the allies. We have spent a trillion dollars and the only benefits we have gained are as follows:

A) replaced a dictatorship and moved a thug dictator

B) Freed some 20 million Kurds from this repressive dictatorship

C) Killed or imprisoned thousands of outsider AL Qaeda types who would have showed up in Afghanistan

D) tested new military strategies and items, like drones

E) allowed for the growth and expansion of some quasi military products industries that employed some unknown number of people

F) It appears that we have determied that there are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq unless they are still really hidden..Could they still be there? dunno,,,

The surge helped but we should have been gone by Jan 2005 and let them figure it out,,,We should have turned it over to the Arab League and let them figure it out,,,

UNAPPRECIATIVE IRAQ PEOPLE ARE USELESS.THE MAJORITY ARE NOT/THE TROOPS WHO HAVE BEEN THERE KNOW.THESE IRAQ PEOPLE DESERVE FREEDOM,LETS NOT FORGET ALL DEMOCRACY'S TOOK TIME.THE FREEDOM FIGHTERS KNOW AND APPRECIATE US.GOD BLESS THE TROOPS OF AMERICA.
Wide Awake from Tacoma Wash. Why is information provided by our Men and Women in the Armed Forces any better than what MSNBC reports? Is it better because they have been decensitized by the voilence and brain-washed with typical military brotherhood propaganda?  
Well I for one must say that I am very pissed with these comments from the Iraqis considering over 4,179 American troops have bleed suffered and died and thousands more have life long injuries both physically and mentally all in an effort to help their behinds! Now whether or not Bush and his crew LIED as we allnow know they did our troops are there with the hope of helping these people and their lack of appreciation is very insulting!!!!!!!

Our troops were still fighting even after theirs decided they would not, thousands of them sat down refusing to fight any longer! Our military is over there having to pay two to three times more for gas than they do! Now here we are in a finanial breakdown with alot of it having to do with money spent over there! While they sit on their behinds talking sh@@! I pray Obama does get in a pull our troops out then these very ones will see the need for our help! Now if they have a problem with anyone that person is Bush and they need to take that up with Bush personally. They need to understand just how things work over here we are not given the truth until it's too late, most Americans wish them, Iran and the rest of the world well, we don't know no more than our gov. let's us know and they often lie to us because they know we are not wanting to cause harm of any kind to anyone, especially if they do not harm us!!!!

Why the hell aren't they out helping our guy and gals to make things better for themselves instead of sitting on their behinds complaining!!???????

So much for McCain and his LIES!Thought those people were happy we were there? Thought their lives were already improved? Thought ALL is a SUCCESS!??????

SURGE! SURGE! SURGE! SURGE! JUST SHUT THE HELL UP McCAIN NO MORE LIES!

EITHER BRING OUR MILITARY HOME OR SEND THEM AFTER THOSE THAT CAME HERE AFTER US!

sad to say but at first i was all for the war-but as usuall politics stopped our military from doing there job. why do we start what we cant finish? time to say bye bye and get this country back on track. every politician is full of lies and empty promises.history repeats again.lets put our military to work at home,lets put our money to work at home,secure our borders.park 2 nuke subs off there coast and let them think twice about what they do to our country again.
save our country FIRST!!!
The Iraqi people want us out.  The American people want us out.  Why is it that only the politicians want to keep us there??  At least Obama is willing to set forth a timetable for withdrawal.
Wide Awake,
The woman down the street working 3 count them THREE jobs and still not being able to pay for health care for her family is the world your ideal gives us.  

I'd rather sacrifice more of my income knowing it is going to help people in this country in need rather than telling them tough luck work harder when they already are like you would have us do.
I find it interesting that basic things like power and water are considered "being given something and not earning it" by some people on this board.

In case you have forgotten - we DESTROYED their infrastructure over there during the war. And we, and the Iraqi government in place now, have an obligation to restore it.

You may not like having to help restore it. I don't, but then again - I didn't like us going over there in the first place. Don't blame the victims of the war for not having power and water and then being mad about it. They had it before, and as I said earlier, we destroyed the infrastructure.
I talk regularly with those in the military, and have learned this: What Iraqis tell americans, and what they tell eachother, are two very diffrent things.

Its easy to ask the people with water and power how they feel about things, but thats 10% of the country.  I suppose the other 90% is asking for free handouts then?
We must look at the loss of life in our nation and Iraq and ask yourself was it really worth the price of crying mothers,fathers,brothers,sisters,uncles,
aunts,husbands.wives,friends etc. The person that attack us created all this madness and he is still
walking around free as our lives have changed a nation into division,hatred,selfisness,greed and you can fill in the rest. I have worked since the age of 9 when opportunity was not the greatest but I had the choice to do something. Our choices have dried up in the job market however I am optimistic that we still have one of the best nations in the world but we will not survive if we keep going in the wrong direction. So fellow Americans our destiny is in our own hands as a free nation we just need think and look at the issues and select who will lead us for the next four years. Peace
Hey Tom Fitzsimmons! How about Gulf War 1?
For that matter, I don't recall the US actually losing a single battle in VietNam nor the modern Iraq War. I DO remember the withdrawl of US forces from Iraq and the Democratic Congress cutting funding for our South VietNamese ally, whom fell some 18 months later. Iraq IS VietNam all over again: the left is trying like hell to lose at all costs!
People, Hold your horses! Iraqi's in cafe were not commenting on America in general, but mostly on American politicians and presidential candidates. And trust, me when it comes to foreign policy they are all the same. Iraq and welfare of a common Iraqi is the least these candidates worry about. More importantly, the two parties being played by special interests, care less about the common people of America too, but we Americans are fooled rather easily, and still vote for these two parties.
Let us all not forget that only time will be the true jundge of our actions.
I am very greatfull to USA and there army to sacrificed to liberate iraq from sadam, i am sure when the USA leaves iraq, most iraqians will regret that, because the country will get like a hell, and the civil war gona start, i am sure people are tired from the new iraqian gorenments for doing nothing to build the country and they are pursuding there interest instaed of people's interest,so far no Electricity, water, no housing, nothing at all, they are busy with stealing from the iraqian people, so iraqians problem with the iraqians leader, not with the  USA and it is army there
I don't know about those here who say they know people who have been to Iraq, but I do know my son -- a Staff Sgt. in the Army.  He has been to Iraq twice now with two different outfits.  The first was a Reserve batallion that was a Heavy Combat Engineering Batallion.  They took train cars full of playground equipment when they went over in '04-'05 and were stationed in Tikrit. Schools were rebuilt, playgrounds put in where there had been none at all, the water treatment plant was refurbished and in working order (hadn't been fully functional for years before that)when they left.  We family members of those soldiers sent many care packages with lots of school supplies for the re-opening of the schools, sent shoes and clothing for the little girls that were now finally allowed to attend school (after many years under Saddam of only boys allowed to go).  When they were on convoy to other outlying villages to help return electricity and other things we take for granted, the locals would line up at the compound gates to offer fresh fruit to the soldiers as a thank-you.  We have wonderful photos of the soldiers playing with lots of cute Iraqi children while their parents sat on the curb watching and smiling.

Things were not quite the same his second tour.  Was with another division then and based to the North of Baghdad.  Just because you see one thing happening in one bad neighborhood of Baghdad does not mean that is what is happening throughout the rest of the country.  We (families) have lots of good stories from our soldiers who have returned from a successful mission and we all mourn for those lost.  Still, my son does not want to go back if he does not have to -- it is very, very hot and without the luxuries of home.  My son is proud of all that they have accomplished there to date, however, and REALLY appreciates what we have here in the U.S now more than ever.  If this country was right next door to us, you know we would be involved in taking out a dictatorship that ruled through terror, with sons that were monsters to their own people, slaughtering thousands and throwing their unidentified bodies in mass graves.  We don't have the luxury to turn our backs on those in need anymore -- the world is too small a place.  So whether they are right next door or on the other side of the world, as the richest, strongest country in the world we have an obligation to help free others from tyranny.
It is time we seriously give heed to the leaders in Iraq and come out of that country.  We have wasted enough money,time, and lives in a land that has a surplus as we get deeper in debt in America. This bailout should be the last straw. Something is grossly wrong with our continuance in a war we should not have been involved in or most definitely do not want to continue!  Get out now and use our money for our economy and our service men and women to secure our own borders!
It simply amazes me that UN has not voted sanctions against the U.S. and the World Court has not brought war crime indictments against Bush and his gang of murderers. There are very bad times ahead for America not the least of which is the world's animosity toward them.
I believe that the majority of Iraqis are glad to have a the dictator gone. Now they need to get there country back and start living!      
Are there people who are better off in Iraq now then before we invaded?  Yes. But compare that to how many we've killed, how many have had to flee, and how many are currently being oppressed and repressed by American government/corporate occupation.  Many people saying Iraq is 'Over the Rainbow' are enormous hypocrites.  They don't care about Iraqis.  And they probably don't care about average Americans either, just as long as they have a fat paycheck and a Bush admin to keep informing them of false realities.
It seems that, across the board, we all feel the same.  There is no real solution to any of our problems by simply "changing faces" in the American government.  I am tired of seeing my friends sent over seas into a "war" that no one really knows why we are fighting anymore.
What is the "real" soultion? Pull out and worry about what is going to happen or stay and send more of our sons, daughters, mothers, fathers, husbands and wives to an uncertain fate?  I honestly do not know nor do i belive anyone really does know the answer to this question.  
Bill from Niceville, FL; you stole my thunder, sir! You are absolutely correct! Why in the hell are we sending our money and soldiers oversees when they are obviously not appreciated and even depised? Oh, the world decries us for the "evil" we spill onto them with our policies, yet, when the crap hits the fan, who do they call first? It's high time we shut off the free money spigot and let the world deal with their own problems! Hell, let the Chinese become the world's humanitarians; they have the (read: our) money, know-how, and the man-power to do it. Plus, they've had plenty of time to practice charity at home -oh wait..

I wouldn't support a policy of strict isolationism; we still need to sell a lot of our wares overseas. As far as economics goes, maybe a drawdown of dependence on foreign made goods and out-sourced services. I wouldn't mind paying more for "made in America" products. As far as sending troops and funding overseas however, forget it! No more!

When the next Hitler or Stalin comes to power somewhere in the world and begins the inevitable "anschluss", look somewhere else for help!Try the French, I hear they're good at placating dictators!

When China invades either Siberia or Saudi Arabia within the next 15 years because they used up more oil than we ever could, guess whose phone is gonna ring? You heard it hear first people! PLA on your doorstep? Sorry.

For the record, it really wont matter who wins on November 4th; you don't get THAT far in politics unless you owe someone else bigtime and/or someone has the goods on you -so you'd better behave! It will be business as usual. Sounds pesimistic, but then again, JFK had the same speeches of "change" and look what it got him! No POTUS will ever step out of line again!

Change will not come from Washington, it will come from each Individual American citizen who is fed up with the status quo.

Bring the troops home now! Stop the bleeding of American cash overseas! With what we spent in Iraq over the last 5 1/2 years, we could have accomplished so much more at home! Withdraw from the U.N. and tell them they've got 30 days to clear out of Manhattan! No more subsidies to other nations, friendly or otherwise!

Make this our Foreign Policy Golden Rule; If you want our help, its going to cost you! Prepayment in advance, or we get to milk your nation of natural resources until the debt is paid.

If we are attacked, we turn the aggressor nation into a glow-in-the-dark parking lot!

Don't like those terms, go plead to someone else. Phones at the State Department would go DEAD!

Peace out! from the People's Republic of California, AKA "Socialist-Occupied America!"
I love how it keeps getting said by neo-cons that things are so much better in Iraq and we just don't know it 'cause the 'liberal press' won't report it (which is absurd) as if those of us unhappy with things over there can't possibly  actually think about it.
I've talked to a LOT of returning heroes .... both Army and Navy aviators (no Air Force that I can remember so far) and, to a man, they ALL say things are a mess and while they say that a few things have improved for a small number of people, in general it's a completely horrible existence for the vast majority of people over there.
They've also all said that the people over there hate us and want us out.
I don't see why you guys can't understand that if an errant missile strike burns your family alive .... you're not consoled at all by the idea that Americans didn't mean it .....
And BTW ...... I question how much wisdom and intelligent info I'm gonna get from people who can't even spell simply words
I'll start ya'll off ....... 'nabor' is spelled neighbor.
george bush couldn't buy msnbc reporters to spread his lies about iraq. it has been a tragic loss of life, money and the way the rest of the world sees us. that is freedom of the press not what you can buy and plant.
Wow!  How sad!  It’s sad that we as Americans have lost so much faith in our country and what it stands for.  This chunk of land we live on is only a chunk of land.  It is supposed to be WE THE PEOPLE that makes this chunk of land SO WONDERFUL and different.  So what’s up with us?  Complacency?  Selfish?  All bark and no bite?  WHAT?  What are you doing for this ONE NATION UNDER GOD?  Do you not remember how long and how many have fought and given their very life so you can be here expressing an opinion???  And it’s only an opinion without action.  Do we forget so quickly?  The USA makes mistakes like all other nations and leaders.  We often are full of ourselves too much and respect others too little but we ALSO give like no other country.  WE THE PEOPLE give everything we have and do our BEST for the world.  We give SO many lives up to be there for ALL people.  We give SO much money to others that this country could greatly benefit.  We believe in FREEDOM and it is SO important that we are fully committed to sacrifice most everything for it.  To sum this up, WE THE PEOPLE are not always correct in the decisions we make just as other countries and leaders are not.  Iraq did not invite us to come to their country.  We invited ourselves.  WE THE common PEOPLE do not know the “real” motivation Bush and our other leaders that made the decision to go to war had.  That’s messed up!  The USA did not have a good plan, strategy not direction when we began this “help” for the Iraqis.  We underestimated, we fumbled and we’ve done damage at the same time we have done what hopefully we thought was right.  Now I ask you, how would you respond if another country came to the USA and did to us what we have done to Iraq?  Would you be happy?  Would you welcome them openly?  THINK ABOUT IT!  Many Iraqis lives have improved but many have been devastated.  So place some understanding to ALL people JUST as you’d want done for you!  Do some research, produce some solutions and HELP!!!  Use your freedom for something productive.  Would the ones that have died for FREEDOM be proud of you and feel their sacrifice was justified?  Look at the mess the USA is in concerning finances, housing,…  That did not come from only one president’s decisions.  These are from WE THE PEOPLE feeding off of WE THE PEOPLE.  The only real change is going to come from WE WE WE THE PEOPLE.  So be part of WE………………..  The entire earth needs WE!  DUH!
Wide Awake. Please go back to sleep. You have obviously never been out of Tacoma. I have lived and worked outside of the US for the better part of the last 20 years and no matter where I go and who I speak to, from Asia, to Central and South America to Europe and the Middle East, our standing in the world is in terrible decline and the last 7 years have been devastating. I voted for Senior, so don't call me a liberal, but it will take a generation, maybe two to clean up this mess. The mess at home is worse yet....  
Obama and McCain are seriously the best men to run for President? We are totally s'crewed no matter which one of these cronies get elected. None of these guys has my vote of confidence to tackle the economy, health, and other crisis this country is enduring. Lord Help us!
I think most middle-eastern peoples lack civil participation in there ethical structure.  No fault to them, the've been ruled and there land carved up by outside governments time and again.  Ethics and western democracy rely on civic participation, taught by family, friends and heros of the community at a very early age.  Like BB King said "you can't raise'em over again".  When the Iraqi people realize that they themselves are responsible for everything from trash in the street to business entreprenurship and that tribalisim is destructive, only then will they have caught-up to idea of modern civil personal responsiblity.  Hummers and cash don't teach that...      
I think we need reminding that Peace costs nothing as long as you don't mind Justice being lost.  When I was a child, I could let the bully have what he wanted every time he asked for it, or get a black eye fighting to keep what was rightfully mine.
Oh yes, the Libs are traitors and clearly because someone posts a less than sunny view, obviously the media is slanted and out to slander your poor, poor Republikkkans. Here's an idea. You people have had the past couple of years to screw up the country and done a royal job of it. The media doesn't always tell the truth, but it's better than waving a flag like a good little Russian and nodding your head everytime someone says "Support our troops". The Iraqis want us out because we've made things WORSE. Let's indulge them and fix our own country before we piss all over theirs. To all of you neo-con, neo-nazi, flag waving idiots who think that by saying "support our troops" and that "liberals are ruining everything", look in the mirror first and then go spew your bile.
Sadaam, A Sunni, made life wonderful for the Sunnis and a living hell for the Shi'as and Kurds.  So it stands to reason that if you interview a Shi'a or Kurd now, he/she is better off; and if you interview a Sunni now, he/she is worse off.  One can only imagine how they must hate and want to prey on each other after all those Hussein years.

The important thing is this:  No matter what media you use for your information, YOU ARE NEVER GETTING UNBIASED INFORMATION.
I myself, being a young (35) college educated American, have had many close friends of the same age go to "war" and return home to rural living.  My search for knowledge has led me into many long conversations with ex-soldiers in an attempt to figure out whats really going on and how they feel about US foriegn policy.  I know marines that have been all over the middle east.  I know Airforce Pilots that used to fly f-16's in Korea and Africa.  I know Army men and women who have been to Iraq and back.  These people i speak of are my friends and my peers.  They may not all be "college educated" , but they all receieved an education about how to enforce the decisions of their commanders.  AND that is what they ALL say..."You just do your job the best you can"...soldiers are not trained for opinions, they are trained to strike and defend!  AND when you take the time to really find out what these people think, you will realize they all have different thoughts and attitudes...it's just impossible to make a general statement when everyone i know that is a Vet has a different view.  PLEASE stop generalizing and stereotyping the soldiers...They are individuals with vary different experiences, perspectives and opinions.

NO vet i have ever spoke with said "it has been a waste"... though most feel they would have had more "fun" in college!
People think communism is so terrible, then why is China thriving and we're borrowing money from THEM???
Well, it looks like Bush and McCain have solved the Iraq problem. Nothing else worked, so they bankrupted the U.S., sent us spiraling into a depression. Now, well now we can't afford to muddle in Iraq any more. (Of course, we can't afford Afghanistan, oil or other commodities, Bill Gates cheap guest workers - Indian and Chinese freeloaders here on H1-B visas, medical care, food, or much of anything else.)
In spite of the mess we're in, we are Americans first. As such, let's watch, listen, research for facts, and vote best choice under the circumstances.We can also take steps to improve our respective cities, towns, neighborhoods, households, within this, our faltering but still great nation.
 
Nate in AZ, you've must have lost your dang mind! I got a call from one of the snipers (Army, 1st Infintry Div) in my family from Iraq this past weekend and he can't wait until his 9 months are up and he can either go back to Germany or come home to AZ. See they sleep and eat and kill in this country that they HATE, his words not mine. I have 8 younger family members fighting this war as I type these words and about 4 close friends and they all want to leave right now! I also coach youth football and 4 of my players have Father's and 3 more have brothers fighting this war and whenever they come to our games or football practices I make it a point to honor all of them and to spend time talking to them and NOT A SINGLE 1 OF THEM WANT TO BE IN IRAQ! So, I'll put my word against yours and I will assure you that 8 out of EVERY 10 of the men & women I know, want to get the hell out of there. But you want to keep them there while you sit home and play on your computer! I'm from a deep Military Family & we've been fighting for the USA in every war since my great-grandfather & his brother-in-law were some of the 1st Black men to serve and fight during WWII. So please don't disrespect all of the active duty men & women as well as all of the vets that have fought for this country with your NEO-CON views! Take your azz over there and fight since you want us to stay in this war, that shouldn't have ever been started! Whatever happened to us catching Bin Laden and the other murders of the 3000+ Americans? Neo-cons only want to nation build and the rest of us want justice for 9/11!
the truth still remains hidden to many, so i urge you all to look into this documentary that has been kept quiet by our nations government. if you have not been enlightened to this information, please do not make the mistake of regarding it as 'propaganda'.  once you have heard the facts, than you have the choice to believe whatever you want, but do not discredit something you have no knowledge of.  http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgeist,_the_Movie  the first third is about religion, but what is most important is what follows.  it goes into great detail the truths behind the events that our country has been apart of, and the reality of our countries agenda.
To Wide Asleep and other Right-Wing Bull**** Artists:
You are all fools and a hypocrites for expelling the s*** that you do. Wide Asleep, where have you been for the last 8 years? Anyone who has been awake will tell you that the compassionate conservatives are the ones who have been watering down the constitution. Your "conservative" president has allowed ideology to rule above all of our governing documents and has run our country to the ground so he and his colleagues can make record profits. As a last harrah, your "conservative" president has ushered in US socialism with his corporate bail-out plan. Your "conservative" administration and hypocritical viewpoint is everything that is wrong with our country. On a final note to all those crying wolf, as for the liberal media tilt, the last time I check the moguls who run and operate a majority share of the "liberal" media were all big republican contributors.
I am not sure we can ask the Iraqis to use their $80 Billion to fix their country. Remember that we attacked and occupied Iraq,...we were not invited.
Who really knows the truth, and screw IRAQ, they are a piece part the stupid reason we are in this financial mess. Why don't they get up off there dumb buts and pay for there own stuff. Also the media is only going to make this mess all worse. hype-hype I can not feed my family and pay for my mortgage if they (government and preess)turn this into feeding frenzy.
"Give me! I want! Give us." The mini debate sounds familiar, but what I've lacked to hear was LETS MAKE THIS WORK. It seems that we constantly hear, what THEY'RE doing for us, versus what WE'VE accomplished.
like usual
the first concerne is the peeps who make big bucks
if they loose pay them back?
the money spent in iraq should of consisted with the iraqi peeps doing the rebuilding, if they were not qualified ? what happened to training them to do the work so they could earn the money.
suprize
it is happening right here with our banks and their adjustable morgage rate?
legal robbery - fool the peeps so they think they could make out with rates lowering?
not!!! like that would happen lol
banks would raise them even if the rate would lower. money mongers dont change and they are all the same across the world
#1 idea make big bucks and step on everyone in the way.
give the bailout to the homeowners that were layed off only, with 6 months worth of house payments under their belt . tack that money to their loans , and make it manitory that banks refinance the adjustable rate loan for a fixed common rate also installed into the loan. so the homeowner can get back on their feet with a new job.if in 6 months they cant get back on line.well the money still goes to the bank for that 6 months and the banks can say they tryd instead of, get the hell out we get your house and everything has gone to the crapper.
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgeist,_the_Movie

folks, for almost all of you, the truth remains untold, and i urge you to look into this documentary that was put together regarding our nation and the events in which we were involved in.  although people who wish to not face the facts will regard it as propaganda or conspiracy, i assure you it is nothing of the sort and is completely factual and has all the information cited on the website.  the first third of the movie about religion, which is unimportant in my opinion, but do not stop watchign because after that the rest of the movie talks about the real reason we are at war, and the people who are creating the situation, only for their personal gain.  do not make the mistake of disregarding this information before you are informed about it; listen, consider, be open minded, and then come to your own conclusion.  do not simply be content with the conclusion that our government has provided you with.  thanks, and i hope you will take this into consideration and begin to spread the truth.
If we went to a cafe in suburban Detroit, and istened in on the conversations there, we may here similar sentiments. Would that mean then, that we would have to pull the US Gov'mt out of Detroit? I think that if the Liberals and Liberal Media in this country focused on the current murder rate in inner cities nation wide, or drunk driving deaths, or rapes, or black on black violence, they would find that WE IN THIS COUNTRY are in more of a crisis than Iraq. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to leave there too, but when we could be sure that the radical Islamist Terrorists like Al Q'ieda wouldn't destabilize the country and send it into chaos. I just wish I would see the same energy and passion from those on the left to fix the problems in thier own back yard. They only seem to get excited when it can be blamed on Pres Bush or republicans. Since most all the big cities are run by Democratic machines, we here little of thier problems.

For example: Hurricane Ike was horribly devistating to the Texas coast and to Gaveleston and Houston and surrounding areas. What was missing was a Democrat Mayor and Governer blaming it on the Feds. The devistation was worse for many communities then what happened in New Orleans, but where are the celebities and the Blame Bush media? Where are the finger pointers and the endless news coverage of why George Bush hates Blacks or Hispanics or Rural Whites?, Because there are no people in the devistated areas who are constantly told they are victims and that they are helpless. They are all helping each other and getting up off thier buts and taking care of themselves as much if not more than what the Government could be doing. Yet right now, this second, there are still hundreds if not thousands still in FEMA supplied housing from Kitrina! Those people are actually HURTING the rest of the country's ability to aid in another Ike or Rita or Katrinina by bing LOADS on the system. They are not learning from Texas, they are being good Democrat voters and staying VICTIMS and sources of endless news stories of the failures of George Bushes governement.

WAKE THE HELL UP PEOPLE!! The Democratic Party has been hijacked by communists, Marxists, anarchists, socialists, and mental defectives. It has been going on for a long long time. At it's core though are the same type of currupt politicos they claim to oppose. Taking money from currupt unions, foriegn governments, and elements of society who wish the USA harm. I WAS a Massachusettes (sp?) Democrat a long time ago, then I saw the UAW force my dads auto assembly plant to close in Framingham and the UAW and AFL-CIO drive the American manufacturing supremicy overseas because of greed and corruption.
I am in a Union myself today, but I do not ever vote how they tell me, nor do I support who they want me too. Uniions have a small core which is good, surrounded by a large rotten exterior.
Crap, I am so upset I am rambling, you get the gist. Just never base a policy or viewpoint from one slanted input. Look, Listen, Analyze, Research, Verify! Trust no one with an agenda, right or left, but verify the story independantly. The purpose of Government is to provide it's people security and freedom to live out thier lives free from fear or worry about hostile powers foriegn or domestic. Free to pursue happiness. Happiness itself is not guarunteed.  

The only other way to provide the securty that President Bush has attmpted to do with the Democritization of Iraq, would be to kill everyone in that part of the world. I find that unacceptible and morally incomprehensible, but more favorable than if they were doing that to us, so I think this current course is the best comprimise he had.
Its like the old saying goes everybody wants to complain about the weather,but nobody wants to do anything about it.We are complaining about the loss jobs that went over seas, Who passed the law to let them go over there to begin with? I beleive it was before Bush took office. And this debt we'er having in
in the U.S could a little bit of it be a contribution
because of the other people coming other here working from other countries and not having to pay taxes, and sending there money back to there country
I don't understand that.And as far as the war is concerned I have a son in Iraq I don't won't him there
either,but he told me he would rather be there than for them to be here.No matter what president we put in
office they all make it look good in the begining,but
they can only do what Congress lets them do, we've already seen 2 years of Congress...Yes I'm a Republican
This article represents just a handful of people out of the millions that live in Iraq. People there have many different opinions of the U.S.A. based on what they have to go through every day whether it be good or bad.  Don't be lazy and rely on this one article to form an opinion of what "everyone" in Iraq thinks.  Do some research and then decide for yourself.
There are millions of Iraqi's that are thrilled and know there lives are so much better --they are free--and not under the regime of Sadaam.  On this NBC site you will rarely hear any good about the war - and this message will most likely not be included. As someone connected directly with soldiers in Iraq -- it is nothing short of amazing how lives have been improved. Why are there so many global whiners?

Nate, you are "connected" with soldiers in Iraq? In other words, we should question the source of your knowledge, as you have never even been there!

I was a psychological operations soldier, and when I was there trying to win hearts and minds, I found most Iraqi's were indeed glad to be rid of Saddam. However, most said there living conditions had gotten worse, as typically happens in a WAR ZONE!

With the problems facing us at home, it's time to set a date and withdraw. We got into this war because of lies and fearmongering. It's sad, but Iraq was more stable with Saddam at the helm. We need to focus on our own problems. While I'm glad Saddam no longer oppresses them, the Iraqis need to assume respnsibility for themselves. If they want a democracy, they need to fight for it. Our presence there simply makes many of them feel that voting is pointless. Obviously, their opinions are myriad and varied, but I agree with them on one thing: the upcoming election is a false dilemma - faces may change, but nothing else will!



Well what? You invade a country WITHOUT provocation, cause a civil war there, bringing about the massacre of more than 600,000 people and the displacment of millions.
And after all that, the people of that country are supposed to "be thrilled to have you there"..??? comon Please........!


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Fight for Iraq
Learn more about the ethnic, religious and political power plays in and around Iraq during a briefing of the region led by NBC’s Richard Engel.