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For weary Iraqis, U.S election smells of ‘honey promises’

Posted: Monday, September 29, 2008 9:21 AM
Filed Under: ,



By NBC News' Karim Hilmi

BAGHDAD – A few weeks ago, Arab satellite channels were airing live coverage of the Democratic Party convention. At a cafe in my Baghdad neighborhood, the TV was tuned into the goings-on in Denver.

The cafe was full, as it is usually is after working hours. But hardly a head was pointed in the direction of the TV as the Democratic Party raised its collective voice to welcome Barack Obama. Most just kept playing dominos, backgammon, cards and drinking tea and Pepsi.

VIDEO: Iraqis not holding much hope for change with U.S. election

That’s despite the fact that Obama has some Islamic roots – his father was raised a Muslim and the presidential candidate spent four or five years in predominantly Muslim Indonesia as a child – and that he and his Republican opponent, John McCain, have divergent opinions on their handling of Iraq’s future.

Why? Busy lives – and a weary fatalism born of 25 years of Saddam Hussein and five-and-a-half years of American occupation.

'Merely faces to be changed'
Just a few friends sitting near me in the cafe talked about the election, and only then because they were prompted by my questions as to who they would prefer as the next U.S. president.

"I don't give a crap who wins or loses," said Safa, a mechanic in his mid-30s. "What good did Bush do to the Iraqi people? Only death and devastation."

The conversation started to warm up a little. "Don't you forget that Bush made us get rid of Saddam, or else we would still be ruled by him and his party and wearing khaki," said Adnan, a plumber, referring to the military uniform he wore in the Iraqi army for about 15 years.

"But don't forget also that Saddam used to give power, water and full foodstuffs through the ration card," chimed in Saman, who is a member of the peshmerga, a Kurdish paramilitary group that fights for a free Kurdish state. "But this government robs us and makes us die in life."

Khalid, a merchant in his late 50s, jumped into the mini-debate.

"In my opinion Saddam, the Americans and the new Iraqi government are all the same – they have done nothing to help Iraqis.

"Bush, McCain or Obama, they are merely faces to be changed," he added, "but the policy is the same and the non-actions and honey promises will be the same."

And then just as quickly the debate died.

''I hear the sound of the mill," said Akram, the owner of the café, "but I don't see any flour."

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Comments

Sounds the same thats happening here in America!Tons of B.S. and no support for the foundation.Seems to me the building is about to fall.
Welcome to American Politics and Politicians! Boring lies and useless fools!
It's obvious "Warmonger" Bush did a poor job of winning the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people.  No surprise since Bush only wanted a puppet government and wanted to make sure that Halliburton, KBR and Blackwater made out like bandits with their reconstruction ripoff of US taxpayers and the Iraqi people.

Barack is correct that we've overstayed our welcome in Iraq and now it's time to get out before we really alienate these people.  Time to save over $120 billion a year in this phony war of "Warmonger" Bush.

Go Obama/Biden 08/12!
How pervasive is this type of attitude in Iraq.  I just don't believe anyone anymore.  If the people aren't thrilled that we are there, we ought to leave today.
At least now having the freedom to speak, during Saddam controlling all Iraqi's life could not even say a word, I remember I was a fraid to recoginze a members of my family due to some security awareness, left the country more that 30 years a go, I hope the new Iraqi generation appreciate the life they are having now, and remember, freedom cost a lot.
Algerian sacrified millions, and so other, just should know how to get along with each others, as our cuture, religions, and for the sake of humanity.
So much for being greeted as liberators.  I guess we've worn out our welcome.  I can't say I blame the Iraqi citizenry for the way they feel.  I think most of us here feel the same way.
Well, it seems they have the same perception as we do...
We have not won a war since WWII.  Korea is a "truce" with no declared winner; Vietnam is a lost war that cost us dearly in lost lives with nothing in return other than a communist government (again) and now Iraq.  Another stalemate......TIME TO GET OUR BUTTS OUT and put the billions we could save back into the hands of our taxpayers.
What gets me is this  "But don't forget also that Saddam used to give power, water and full foodstuffs through the ration card," and it sounds like they don't want to work to get them self’s up, and the people in this country are the same way,  They want a big gov "Obama" to give them handouts and do nothing to get it themselves.  I do not want what I have worked hard for to be given to my nabor that will not work.  
There are millions of Iraqi's that are thrilled and know there lives are so much better --they are free--and not under the regime of Sadaam.  On this NBC site you will rarely hear any good about the war - and this message will most likely not be included. As someone connected directly with soldiers in Iraq -- it is nothing short of amazing how lives have been improved. Why are there so many global whiners?
Sounds like more propaganda to me.  I've been over there and if you talk to those who are use to exploiting the poor with Sadam they don't like their current situation.  They want to line-up and collect what they haven't rightfully earned.  After all they have to work like those they use to take advantage of in the past; what fun is in that?  Get out of the advantaged areas and go talk to those who have new schools and running water and power for the first time ever - outside of Sadam's loyalist followers.  This article is onesided and leans way to the left.  

May we see with our hearts and minds and not through the reporters who are trying to sell their stories.
I'm sure the Japaneese and Germans didn't like us either. It will take decades to see the full effect of what we have done as a country.
Time to make them understand the meaning behind the phrase "Be careful what you wish for...."  We should just leave, if that's the way they feel.  Let Iran and Syria carve the country up, you know, like the USSR and the Allies did with Germany after WWII.  There can be an East Iraq and an East Baghdad owned and operated by Iran, and a West Iraq and a West Baghdad owned and operated by Syria.  Oh, hell, while we're at it, let Turkey have the Kurdish North, they've certainly earned it.  At least we won't have to hear their b*tching then, because they'll have a muzzle on their right to complain.
ain't America grand? what the hell is really happening to my beloved country. That thin line is on the verge of snapping. Soon it will be everyman for themselves, the government is bogus and non existent.
Nate there ives is much better? are you kidding me? no electricity, no jobs no security, no homes but you right there much better of. Because you say so. Do you think you would feel the same way if at any time people come and search your home if you lucky enough to still have one. You would think it's ok if your children or you family goes to get food not knowing if the come back alive. Well ya you right much better of now after all they have something they didn't have before alkaita
Iraq was stable, had no Al-Queda terrorists, had been at war with Iran and allowed women to be educated, hold high ranking jobs and show their faces under Sadaam.  Sure he was a tyrant, but things were much better in Iraq before we destabilized the country.  Things were better in the USA, too.
"Just the facts, sir".
in a recent poll 85% of Iraqis want us out sooner then later. Many of Iraqis have not forgotten the 1991,1998 & 2003 bombings and the 12 years of oppressive sanctions resulting of over 1 million Iraqis death.
I'm not sure the definition of victory that McCain envision. If Mccain envision that American troops can travel thought Iraq without weapons similar to Japan & Germany he lives in a dream world. Even Maliki (US Puppet) pressured by the MP to have US troops leave Iraq by 2011. If the US doesn't not comply unfortunately we will see an increase in casualty of US troops  
Message to Don, the polititians are not going to give your hard earned dollars to your nabor, they are going to give them to wall street.
It is interesting to see that the iraqi press is just as manipulative and cunning as the U.S. media.ie
find negative quotes from a few individuals who are unwilling to help themselves so they parasite on  anyone who is willing to give them free food and materials just for being negative. I say weed out negative doomsayers and fill the airways with truth and optimism. We tend to let ourselves get caught up in negative corrrupting conversations. I see too many people complaining and yet they offer no solutions but they will hold their hand out.
To,
Salahaldin Mahdy Hantousch, Illinois. I think this is the time for you to go back to Iraq and help the people there.
Consider the source of this article (MSNBC). Their liberal journalists would crawl through broken glass to find an anti-Bush, anti-American sentiment to write a story about. People complain back here too whether we have a Republican or Democrat in office that things aren't good enough. Remember to ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country to make it better. Ask those Iraqis if they are ready to bring back a dictator and give up their voting rights. Have them vote on that and you'd get a different picture.
Nice job for MSNBC to keep showing the "one" side of the Iraq story.  Must hurt too much to post a "positive" story.  All of you Bush whiners who are waiting for Obama to give you a hand out and magically make your life "better" are going to be disapointed when he lets you down.  Move to Canada if you want socialism!  Stop whining!
To
Nate, Phoenix, Arizona, neo-nazi not neo-con like you (McCein, Bush, Cheney) are resposible for the death of millions of peole in Iraq.
Nate or should I say Mr. Graham, They are 'whiners' because the sitation is a giant mess.  Not everone values the repug pom poms waving the same way you do.   When you live in a bombed out mess where your neiblours are being slaughterd because of the form of islam they follow you could say thing might have been better under one dictartor rather than another.  When you have a group of american hand picked leaders in office that are barely reconizaable as different from the old boss I could imagine it would be hard for them to wave the thanks mr bush flag. They live in a place where although "free" is not stable and not safe, You would be whining to if the basics of life wer thrown into chaos your freinds and family killed to serve some political ideal that you did not even ask for.
It is truly amazing how we have lost sight of the needs of the American people. What does it matter how the Iraqi people perceive our election process. They are struggling with their own governmental processes.

What can be said about our present government? We are suffering, I admit it, is this the best it has been? NO! However, you will not see me standing there pointing fingers or tearing down the government to justify our current state of affairs. Our involvement in Iraq is not the problem, sure that money would help out back here, but not hardly the answer. Lets cohesively get to the bottom of the issue and find the solution.
It is easy to point out the problems....and interject opinion as to whom to blame. Lets be part of the solution and not part of the problem.
The Live mach better than before during Sadam
There are two type of Iraqi Like here
One type they work hard and build there country
other they want to get money free or they trying
to get it from the government free
The second part if you do not give them they will not be happy even God come to rool Iraq
What a negatively slanted article. What about all the news stories about people who have flourished under the New Iraq? The new hospital bldgs, schools and pools? What about those? Did anyone mention THAT? No. I happen to have a friend with Blackwater in Bahgdad and I hear a different story from him. A great many people are HAPPY that we are there and Saddam is gone. This story is just like an impatient child wanting his candy NOW. Things do not change over night, they take time. Just like the impetous youth here in America that want things to change over night, not gonna happen. Deal with it.

   For the most part i feel the people of Iraq are right. We should just pick up and leave them. They have a several trillion dollar surplus and we have a several trillion dollar def.
   Or they can start paying the price for us to hold the line.  
The 10 Billion monthly expense for Iraq and Afganistan after 5 years in ridiculous. Let Iraq use their $79 billion surplus for their own defense.
Obviously a hit piece on Bush and promoting the change that Obama alleges to bring, but more interesting is that the lead paragraph is about Obama and his Muslim heritage yet no mention of Obama in the headline.
I really get a laugh out of the posters on all of these stories. They think that because one article, slanted toward their opinion, says it is so, then it must be so.
It is common knowledge the news media is biased toward the Libs and therefor a majority of the stories they run are intended to engender in the readers the belief that "that's the way it is"
Wake up! Get your information from someone who knows, talk to a service man or woman who has been there, several times, and ask them the general consensus over there. You may be surprised even scared to find out the same lies and backdoor deals you scream about on the part of the politicians are nothing in comparison to what these so called "news agencies" do.
One example, what has your "news" source been saying about what's going on in the Phillipine Islands? Crickets.
You only have to look inside your own family and network of friends and determine what is important to you. If Obam should win this election, your life and theirs will be no better. The economy will still suck, taxes will go up, joblessness will increase in all sectors except Gvmt employment (Bill's answer to unemployment), and the socialization of America will deepen to a point where a larger section of the population will be dependant on the GVMT for basic survival.
Try voting conservative ten years after the libs have fed, clothed, schooled, doctored and supported you. If you think, "what's wrong with that?" then all I have to say to you is "YOU ARE what's wrong with that, stand on your own two feet, quit being so lazy and complacent and make a stand for something other than the easy way out"
While they have you distracted with all the "free stuff" the basic tenets of the Constitution will be watered down and you will be left with the very thing the document was drafted to prevent, Totalinarian rule, this time by a domestic GVMT, not a foreign one. But really, is there a difference?
These "news" types and the Liberal politicians they represent stand to lose nothing under this arrangement, you and I will lose nearly everything that matters. So while they keep you bottled up with slight of hand and card tricks about one issue or two issues spun to appear to be the most important of the day,making you think you are the smartest person in the room, they are laughing all the way to the White House.
Do us all a favor, read between the lines, take a broader view of the world and your place in it and stop allowing yourself to be controlled by these opinion columnists. After all, if I ran a story about how all of you are unimformed, self - absorbed, welfare minded, socialist puppets to everyone in the news reading world, and there was no voice given to you to defend yourself, what do you think the reader's opinion of you would be?
If people feel this way in Iraq.... We must be done,
I'm sure after we leave they will want the US to send aid however.
It is obvious that they are still struggling with freedom and the cost it comes at….

Most of us do not really understand it’s cost either, we live in a time of convenience, my parents generation had to live through the Great Depression, WW II and the Korean War.

This goes to show, no matter how far we have come with technology, we still live in a world that is divided with oppression vs freedom…..

I’ll take freedom everytime…….
I must agree with Nate. Isn't it funny how our soldiers come back and tell us about the great things that are happening in Iraq, but our news media says the opposite.  The media tells you that three children died because of US fire, but doesn't tell you that thousands survived!
Yet another ungrateful nation spitting at America. It's time we become an isolationist nation. Very few if any nations respect the help given anymore. The next time a tsunami wipes out a country, citizens seek refuge from a dictatorship, or a continent starves its citizens we as a nation should sit back and say, "It's not my problem" and see what happens.
Nate in PHX says:

"As someone connected directly with soldiers in Iraq -- it is nothing short of amazing how lives have been improved."

I don't know how you are "connected" with the soldiers in Iraq, but my son has many friends he went to school with who have served in Iraq (Army, Marines, and Air Force) and to a man when they visit our home, they all say they hate the country Iraq, they hate the Iraqis, and the Iraqis hate us.  

They all agree it has been a waste.  


Interesting.  According to on-the-ground reports, there is now reliable power and sanitation to more places than there was just before Saddaam was toppled and a $67 billion budget surplus.  Couple that with Salahaldin's remark about free speech, and it would appear things are looking up.  I hope we're not creating another co-dependent and handout-seeking society like the many post-colonial failures our European brethren created throughout Africa.
You all miss the most crucial facts of all - the extreamist foreign fighters came to kill americans and Iraqies. They blew up all the restructuring work: oil & water, health care, schools, women & children. I am not sure anyone in their right mind would have guessed the level of evil they would be dealing with.
America is a bearer of bad news, period. Everything it touchs turns to crap. You go to middle east to kill, steal, rip off other countries so that fat people in midwest can get fatter so they can buy BIGGER cars to fit in, so they can park these monsters in their BIG garages in even BIGGER homes.
Leave us alone we have had enough of American bullshit
You all miss the most crucial facts of all - the extreamist foreign fighters came to kill americans and Iraqies. They blew up all the restructuring work: oil & water, health care, schools, women & children. I am not sure anyone in their right mind would have guessed the level of evil they would be dealing with.
I'm sorry that we have failed so miseraly at the second half of the mission in Iraq- we failed at making their lives better. We failed to help them help themselves, and we are going to be paying for it for a long time. I'm for the war, I am for the suppression of the sectarian militias and Al-Qaeda, but I am also for the idea of helping them rebuild. We need to send construction equipment and materials, we need to hire Iraqi architects, Iraqi builders to do this. Instead of doing things for the right reasons the wrong way, why don't we do that? It would make us look better AND help their economy by paying their wages. Whoever wins this election needs to realize that.
Thank you Mr President for not only ruining our lives, you decided to to ruin Iraq's as well. You are a superpower!
"It is common knowledge the news media is biased toward the Libs..."

To this day, I get laughs from this.  If the liberal media is so biased against Bush and the Repugs, how come there hasn't been front-page headlines reading:

"BUSH LIED TO GET SUPPORT FOR WAR"
"BUSH TRAMPLES OVER CONSTITUTION, ADVOCATES ILLEGAL SPYING"
"BUSH TURNS BLIND EYE TO DETAINEE TORTURE"
"BUSH IGNORES FLOODED NEW ORLEANS"
"BUSH USES VOTER FRAUD TO WIN TWO ELECTIONS"

If you get anything REMOTELY close to the factual things I've posted above, you get one of two things:

1) A feature story that glosses over Bush's involvement.
2) A tiny sidebar buried on the back page of the news section.

And yet the media is just sooooooooo darn liberal...

Get real.
It is obvious that 1 trillion dollars and countless American lives (and Iraqi lives) later, the invasion of Iraq was a bad idea. We will leave Iraq with an unstable government which is more allied to Iran than the USA. WE have greately strengthened the hand of Iran, and will not have brought our style of democracy. Now the Shias will trample the Sunnis, who will also be squeezed by the emboldened Kurds in the North. Well, perhaps the Kurds will be thankful, but will not express it. They are planning how to create a Kurdistan, after breaking up a piece of Turkey as well.
bRANDY  what you whant you whant them to tell you? how many people they killed? how many of our soldiers are messed up long after they came back? BILL right ungrateful of them not to love us after we killed there families bombed there homes, took away there lives. How can they not be gratful? I bet you would be if they bomed your house killed your familys right?
If they don't want us we need to get out as fast as is safe for Americans.  Let The Iraqis sort out their own problems.  Would we want them meddling in  ours?
dave that is what my son said too and he been there twice. They don't whant to be there and no matter what anybody said we are not there liberators
in a logic poll. 100% OF AMERICANS WANT US OUT OF THERE SOONER THAN LATER ALSO. BUT WE CAN T JUST UP AND LEAVE IT. IT WOULD BE DISATEROUS!!!
the problem is, the journalists hear what the Iraqis think they want to hear. The culture over there is so used to getting by by saying the right things to people they percieve to be in power.  I've heard other stories from Iraqis. They were excited about Obama because of all his effort to appeal to islamic and arabic voters in America.  However when Biden was picked as the Veep nominee, they have become concerned.  They do not like Biden's international views-they remember his judgement call on how to take care of Iraq which was to carve it up into ethnic and religious based states.  he said that not all people want democracy and that some liked being ruled under dictators.  That arrogance does not sit well with idealistic and bright people like the iraqis.
Geez, no one like us anymore........if they don't want us there, we need to go.  Problem is that if we leave without making sure that they can govern and protect themselves, they will be cursing us for the millinium.  We can't win for losing.  And they Iraqi's talk about no food, dying etc.  HOw many americans and Nato soldiers have died for their freedom in Iraq.  There doesn't seem to be much appreciation does it?  I am in line with McCain, but honestly, we need to come out of Iraq, put our forces in Afganistan and start worrying about the USA instead of all of these countries who hate us and wish us death.  Personally, I wish we would just mind our own business for a while.


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