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For Poles, U.S. election is personal

Posted: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 5:00 AM
Filed Under: ,



 SLUPSK, POLAND – For the citizens of the Polish city of Slupsk, the American election is personal.

Like the rest of Poland, the northern city has borne the scars of Europe’s many wars and invasions. Now Slupsk is preparing for another potential conflict – as proposed host to a controversial U.S. missile site, one that has drawn the fury of Russia.

Slupsk, which had to be rebuilt after World War II, is central to a U.S.-led NATO expansion around and into the former Soviet Union, which is ratcheting up the tension between Moscow and Washington.

"The people of Slupsk are more interested than ever in the U.S. election," Mayor Maciej Kobylinski said.

VIDEO: Poles and a Gdansk-based American share their views on the U.S. presidential election.

The mayor backs the missile site, envisioning new highways, a small civilian airport, a water park and an Olympic-size swimming pool "not only for Polish citizens, but for the Americans that will come," he said.

He’s dusting off the welcome mat for an estimated 1,000 U.S. military personnel, but the warmth toward the installation isn’t unanimous – and opinions are divided over which U.S. presidential candidate will be best for Poland.

For Woytech Czajka, who sells "gold of the north" – amber jewelry – on the Baltic Sea boardwalk 20 minutes north of Slupsk, "George Bush was a very good partner in politics for Poland, but I’ve heard that [Barack] Obama wouldn’t be as good."

Sipping Zywiec beer and showing off his resin pendants, Czajka, 21, said the missile site would protect his country.

"We are a free country now, but Russia doesn’t accept that," Czajka said.

"I heard that Obama doesn’t want to build it, so I prefer [John] McCain," he added.

A divided city 
Both candidates, in fact, back the plan. Obama, however, has said that he would want to test the effectiveness of the missiles before they are activated.

Under the defense deal, 10 missile interceptors will be placed in underground silos at Redzikowo airfield, on the outskirts of Slupsk.  By 2011 to 2013, they will work in conjunction with U.S.-run radar based in the Czech Republic to thwart a potential attack by Iran. In an attempt to quell the Kremlin’s worries, The U.S. Missile Defense Agency says the system cannot be used for an offensive attack without obvious modification of the football-sized field it will occupy. 

Yet the proposal has divided this city of 100,000.

"No to the U.S. Shield," reads red paint on a wall next to a busy market in the heart of Slupsk.

"The Russians threatened to point their missiles at Poland," if the deal was signed, said Mariusz Chmiel, a district leader who said he hoped Obama would win.

"Six months ago, our politicians did not believe them, but today, after the events in Georgia, the Russians’ threats should be taken seriously," he said, adding that three different surveys of the local population showed that 70 to 75 percent were against the missile shield site.

The local population’s views appeared largely stratified by age; those who lived through a Soviet presence in Poland are anxious about having any foreign troops back in their country.

"Those who remember the communist time under the Russian Army that was stationed near here say, ‘We used to have Russians and now the Americans are coming,’" said Krzysztof Pedzich, a local translator.

Slupsk is 65 miles away from Gdansk, home of the Solidarity labor movement which helped overturn Poland’s communist system. Poland is now a member of the European Union and was among the handful of EU nations to back the U.S. invasion of Iraq.

"If you could see how it used to be before, the foreign army, any foreign army ... is treated like an intruder," said Pedzich, a father of four, who was studying in Gdansk during the anti-communist protests in the late 1980s.

Jennifer Carlile / msnbc.com
Graffiti on a wall in Slupsk reads "No to the U.S. Shield."

A conquered land 
The city’s architecture tells of a tumultuous past.

Governed by Prussia and then Germany until the end of World War II, Russian forces razed most of Slupsk to the ground before the war’s end. Out of the ruins, the 16th century castle was rebuilt, along with the Witches Tower, where 18 women prisoners had been put to death by 1714. 

During a recent trip, children were feeding ducks on a lush green riverbank alongside the tower, which now houses a funky, contemporary art gallery. On the other side, laundry hung in front of a low-rise Communist tower block with "Skinheads" scrawled on its façade.

From well-maintained city gardens to an abundance of EU buntings, civic and European pride abound. But, unemployment is high and the average salary is just 2,500 Polish Zlotcych ($1,022) a month – about one-sixth lower than the national average.

For Kobylinski, the city mayor, the missile site will mean jobs while drawing American soldiers and tourists to the area, which is not on most tourist itineraries (The 65-mile train ride from Gdansk can take more than 2 1/2 hours).

Kobylinski, a member of a left-wing party, is convinced that the missile site will be built no matter who becomes the next U.S. president. So he's backing Obama, because of what he sees as their shared liberal philosophies.

With lots of family and friends in the United States, especially in Obama’s adopted hometown of Chicago, many here have a direct interest in the U.S. election, he added.

Jennifer Carlile / msnbc.com
Zbigniew Kramek guards the Redzikowo Airfield, where the U.S. missile site will be based.

Part-politics, part-Hollywood
For others, the process is part-politics, part-entertainment.

"The election in the U.S.A. looks like a big show, or Hollywood," said Aleksandra Rutkiewicz, 27, whose job is to promote Slupsk out of the 19th century city hall.

"I would prefer McCain because he’s not such a showman as Obama," she said, adding that she fully supported the missile shield.

At the Redzikowo airfield only a couple of old planes and disused buildings could be seen behind a guard’s fence.

For the guard there, the choice was more basic. Will one of (the candidates) make it so we can go to the U.S. without a visa?" asked Zbigniew Kramek. "He’s the one I want."

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Comments

Prof. James Tyler, and those like him, don't belong in the land of the free. They are screaming, Mao-inspired liberals who pontificate because words are free. Were they to actually make an investment in their country they would change their tune.
The Poles have been picked on long enough.We can step up and be a big brother.
BRAVO Patrick from NY. Someone who knows their history of the brave Poles who fought for freedom only to lose theirs. Hopefully the US will recognize what a true allies can do together not only with the missile shield but the war against Islamic Extremists and to help the economy of a truly great country POLAND.
Pretty weird.  All the America-bashing seems to be coming out of America.  Poland seems to think the US is alright.  They may very well not appreciate the presence of foreign troops - from any country - but the word "imperialist" is only being used by Americans.  Weird, yet interesting.
Andrzej Lewandowski, Perth, Australia

How do you know how educated the average american is about politics or anything? Second hand through the news possibly? Why not go back to your homeland your not a native of Australia thats for sure. Embrass your heritage instead of hiding down under.
Thank you for those who agree that the Polish did not "aid" the Nazis! While there WERE concentration camps in Poland, this does not mean that the Polish government "aided" them. This would be the equivalent of terrorists taking over our country and building camps to exterminate us. And many of the Polish were Jewish. It does not seem to me that YOU are credible, you obviously have not picked up a history book, and surely you do not have family from the country.
If the Poles want us there then we should be there.  Any country who is willing to embrace freedom and a democratic form of government should be accommodated.  I don't see any other countries willing to stand with Poland and that speaks volumes in itself.
I can understand the Russians concern. We didn't like it when the Russians were going to put missiles in our back door (Cuba) back in tha sixties. wich caused us to befriend the cubans for 40 years. the russians decided not to do that, So why should we do that to them.
God Bless Poland. We should help the allies that help us. I have no doubt Russia would use any excuse they could to regain Poland as a territory. Putin might even try to give everyone Russian passports then use its military claiming to protect it's "citizens", it seems to have worked in Georgia.
To: "John Doe" from Washington.... The Polish people did NOT assist the Nazis in the murders of Jewish and other people! They were in MANY cases victims themselves. Do you even know that being Jewish is a religion and not a nationality?! Uneducated peole like you should stay off the internet, its how misunderstanding leads to conflict.
Putin ia KGB now and always will be and so are his entire cabinet.
I studied and lived in Poland for 4 years; the Polish people are very wonderful although sometimes very misunderstood by the rest of the world.  Those that I have spoken to, have very different opinions on the future president of America, nevertheless all of them hope and want the best for the United States.  
guess Ive been censored from setting the record straight.
Joe Schabelli: Do you really think so? I have seen Barry Obama change his opinion more times in an afternoon than McCain in 10 years. It must be that Obama is "flexible". Get that your man Obama is as ignorant as he is praud. The problem is that he has no clue but does not know it. Obama has the principles of a communist: non existent.
Poles are Nazi. Are you kidding? The dead camps where placed there to hide them and be close enough to Germany to be useful. Never forget that most of the people killed in these camps were jewish and non jewish Poles. History is written correctly just read it.
During World War II. The Polish pilots that could fled to England and fought from there. In fact name any war the USA fought and poles were there. A free Poland is want them want and if a missle system helps that end, than build several of them. To hell with Hilter and the USSSR.
John Doe = ignoramus...
Hope that the shield will be installed... we need the shield here in US - the more Russia is opposing it - the more we should realize its importance... Obama will find a way to weazel out of it...

VOTE for McCain/Palin to keep US safe
Ronald Reagan ends the cold war, George Bush starts it up again. Put the missile defense system in a country that won't have Russia threatening military action. Let's avoid WWIII.
To Prof. James Tyler of Boston--you call yourself a professor?  Imperialism has only gotten us the fame we have now.  No one likes Americans worldwide because of people that think like you.  Poland is and will be protected because of it's history.  There is no need for the US to go and install missiles just to prance in Russia's face that we can. Remember, a wise country is one that heeds advice and Putin has a plan for us if we ignore it.  We aren't next door, we don't deal with Poland on a daily basis, how can we just come up with %^&* like this one day and not care about the consequences.  America will have it's dooms day if we continue like this and that day is sooner than you think.  Why instead don't we protect abused and neglected children in this country.  That is the root of criminal activity. Why don't we help single ignorant mothers go back to school so they can better themselves.  Why don't we? Because the US is too busy wanting to fix other countries and the only thing it does is create more hate. This is why 9/11 happened. Because the US with all it's selfish people hits, but when it's hit all we do is pull out bigger guns.
Who cares????  They can't vote over here so their opinion is meaningless!!!!!!!!!!!
Poland didn't "aid the Nazis."  In case you missed that day in World History, they were invaded, point blank, and ethnic Poles were imprisoned in ghettos and killed in concentration camps for their own "racial inferiority" and enemy of the state status.  

In the mean time, like the Kurds, the Poles keep getting used and abused by those who make them promises and then have neglected them throughout history.
To all Americans:
U guys talk about other countries???????????
90% of Americans have no clue where is Europe, not talking about Poland.
75% have no clue where are some states in this country.

And Polish people do wote on the ellection, ther's only 12 million of them in the U.S. alone.
These are the facts, so please stop complaining.
With all due respect to the opinion on Obama from Joe Schabelli; it's not very appropriate to say McCain will likely die in four years. In fact; it's rather sad to see that when finally a fairly Objective News Article is found (ironically in the World BLOG) that you feel the need to taint it with close mindedness. In fact, you have no basis of fact behind anything you've said. It's about as ignorant as the lunatic saying the Poles helped the Nazis, which, although i'm for McCain; I regret having to see Obama associated with closed minds due to his supporters.
Frankly we as Americans have no business attmpting to please foreigners with our presidential selections. Yes we should be friends with the rest of the world, but our country comes first! Not the Poles, rusians our Iraquis.

www.chilitoz.com


As a Polish American, I am sorry that your countrymen put their lives on the line for the USA.  As a former American military member, I recommend you do not put this shield up.  We in the USA only bend to the whims of the media.  They control our destiny or lack there of.  It is very difficult for any representative of the USA to live up to their commitments with the wishy-washy poll savvy members of congress who say one thing one day and conveniently forget or attempt to pass the buck the next day.  That ended with President Reagan.  Do not trust our representatives or our presidential candidates who are both Senators, full of hot air and only know how to get elected to office.  I think of the holocaust and everything the Polish people have endured.  Do not trust a country that lives by population control (murdering babies) and call it a women’s choice and make it sound appealing.  Do not trust my country.  Long live Poland and her people. Stay Safe...
I've got news for you "Americans are racist", always have been, always will be, but only by the liberal medias definition of "Racist". By their definition our racism is hidden just under the surface. On television, in the newspapers and while at work, we Americans have become expert at distracting negative views of who we are as individuals and denying we have ever uttered a negative word about another person because their skin color was other than their our own or we spoke a different language. At home and in the company of childhood friends and family we are free to say what makes us laugh, most of which would be considered racist by the talkingheads on the idiot box when in fact most of it is simply people goofing on eachothers differences. That being said, I knew Obama would beat Hillary and I knew McCain would choose a female running mate. I also know that Americans at this point in time will not elect a black president... partly because we can't! due to the fact that the corporate bigwigs who control the Republican party also manufacture and calibrate (err, manipulate) our voting machines! Long Live Our Hypocricy!      
The most important thing for all earth citizens is to avoid having your family and children slaughtered by war. Having another Bushy in the white house is frightening, no compromise, this is not the Christian way, how can those freaks even claim that faith. Obamas the only one with sense enough to communicate and PREVENT war.
This U.S. Shield is bull and instigates a future war with Russia or Iran. We all know Russia or Iran wont attack us first, its not in their interest. Say no to imperialism and watch out for the new world order. Destroy Zionism and save the world.
All of these voices of isolationism... It was these same voices that allowed Hitler and the Nazis to take Czechoslovakia and Poland prior to WWII.  Those voices said look the other way... It is not our responsibility... and then… we didn't know what they would do... it is not our fault.  

It is OUR responsibility and our DUTY to stand against the EVIL in this world. God Bless the polish People and God help America.
Hey Doe you say the poles are not voting in the United states.I do not know where you have been but there are millions of poles who will be voting in this country. There are polish people in every state in this country who will be voting in November.DAH
I assume the US taxpayer is to pay for this.  I would recommend the EU pay for its own defense from now on.
Everyone thinks the missile shield is there to protect Poland.  It is NOT!  It is there to prevent Russia from rolling past them on their way to the rest of Europe!  Some say it is also there to attack Iran, which has nothing to do with Poland or Europe.  Poland is just a place to launch missiles.
Why can't Poland develop their own defense systems at their expense?  If the USA does everything for others, then they'll never develop their own industries and technologies, and the USA will always be spending its taxpayer money abroad instead of at home or on our HUGE debt.  No wonder we have a 9.7 trillion dollar debt, as of yesterday!  In 10 or 20 years, we won't be able to pay the interest, and then let's see who's going to help us!  Nobody!
Wow Guys. If it was a country in Africa... you wouldn't be saying anything about supporting their economy.  Lay of the Polish.  They may have supported the Germans but we forgave them along time ago.  Get with the times.  It's actually a good thing that a European country is finally supporting the other candidate. However... it really doesn't matter. It's still up to the US to pick a good leader.  Stop bickering and start reading about OUR candidates.
To all those who are against this missle shield - However,  I do not think it might be the best idea with our already tense relations in the area, being the only World Power left - it comes as inate responsibility that we must also be involved in every facet of world politics/conflicts, etc:  Although im sure many people are going to respond negatively to this post, first - before you say one thing in opposition, answer me this:  Being a citizen of what other country can you travel almost anywhere in the world, and, for the most part be respected, go WITHOUT a pre-approved visa, and feel safe in the fact that if something happens to you, your country will do its utmost to maintain your safety?   Also, before all you travel minded folks respond saying "I dont feel respected/safe/etc:"  I have travelled extensively throughout 4 continents, have dual citizenship (American and Italian) and visit the Middle East, in particular, Syria and Lebanon at least 4-5 times a year to visit family.  Although I have at times felt a slight unease, or a sense of hostility, at least in that region, I HAVE NEVER felt scared, or embarressed, because no matter what people say, if given the chance, 75% of them would move to this country in a split second if given the chance.
Have whatever feeling you want about the 2008 political election, but the slamming of the Polish people as stupid and racist is just ignorant.  The talk that the Polish were somehow connected to the Nazi extermination is also ignorant.  Read a book before sprouting untruths....
So, when obama gives his speech in Germany he's being a "citizen of the world" and the Germans are great. But when someone from a different country backs McCain, suddenly "Who cares what they think". Is there a cure for liberalism? lol Every day I'm amazed at how clueless they are, so snide & hateful & ignorant. I really can't believe that anyone would vote for obama...and when I ask people why they support him, no one can give me an answer. Libs: Pure emotion & hatred...zero logic.
Two Polish generals fought for freedom of United States: Kosciuszko and Pulawski. Poles fought Nazis on many fronts: in Batle of Britain, Monte Casino, Tobruk etc. and what do they can in return is a bunch of insults.  
The new generation of Americans.. entitled and only concerned about what is in front of them... if it's not important to me today, it's not relevant. You are delusory about the world and should take up some history lessons. If parents hadn't been looking the other way while raising a lot of these kids, maybe they would have taught them some manners and life lessons and a little bit about the world. It shames me to see what we have produced.
CUBA MISSLE CRISIS ??? DOSEN'T ANY BODY REMEMBER???
THE U.S WAS PISSED ABOUT U.S.S.R IN CUBA SO GO FIGURE
RUSSIA WOULD NOT MIND THE U.S. IN THERE BACK YARD
I PRAY OBAMA WIN'S OR WWIII W/MCPALIN
As Mr. Ron Paul has repeatedly said: NO nation building- which means NO missle shield in Poland... & oh yeah, get us out of Iraq, Afghanistan, Korea, etc!

We're bankrupt & every penny spent overseas would be better-spent in the USA!!! Also, get us out of NATO, the UN, WTO, CAFTA & NAFTA. Of course, any of this won't happen (anytime soon), as both McCain & Obama are both Globalists...
We need to protect ourselves from Iran A defensive missile site will protect and deter many threats in the world.  I wonder why Russia is against us protecting ourselves from Iran?  Maybe we should reason with the terrorist supporters and hope,Obama style,that they will be nice.    
I have justed finished reading most of the comments and I am still amazed at just how narrow minded some, even those that are college educators and the well educated, have about life in general. Many in the U.S. live in their tiny little world and make decisions and judgements about how things are and how they they should be handle.  Americans pick and chose what they want to believe and then add their feelings into the mix.  After they add their feelings into it they then tell everyone that this is the "Verifiable Truth" when in fact it is just their biased and uninformed opinion.
When did America become Imperialistic?
Politicians everywhere take whatever they can to make themselves look good or make others look bad so that they will look good.  In other words so that no one will see them as they really are.
As far as fixing things here I took an old saying and added to it:  You not only can't see the forest for the trees, you can't see the tree for that little spot on the bark.
You never pay addition to what the effect the problem is having on the "tree, the trees, or the forest. What about the effect they have on that spot on the bark?  Too many of us fail to look at and consider the "Big Picture".  We also fail to leave our feelings and biased views out while looking at the "Big Picture".
Now will someone explain to me why Wall Street and many people in the military are terrified that Sen Obama will become President?
Why are so many that are affiliated with the military in some way preparing to fight a war on terror here at home?
Please open up your minds and look at the whole picture before you start making the statements that you have.
Sen. Obama is not the one we should have as President and I'm not very happy about Sen. McCain either.
Poland was not helping Nazis during WW II. Poland was ATTACTED by Nazis. In fact the WW II started on September 1st with Nazis attack on Poland, because Polish government didn't want to satisfy Nazis' demands. The reason why Nazis' concentration camps were located on Polish territory OCUPIED by Natzis is that a lot of Jews lived in Poland before WW II. Number of Poles honored with title "Righteous Among Nations" (bestowed for saving Jews during WW II) is the biggest of all nationalities. Only in occupied Poland the harboring and helping Jews was punished by death.
Russia will continue to be a global threat, as we will see the rise of Communism once more.  We must not simply look at next month or even next year, but rather 3 or even 5 years down the road.  We must prepare accordingly and elect someone who will provide our nation with a strong defense.  We must elect someone that realizes evil must be defeated abroad before we have to challenge it internally.  I would concur that we do need to devote a great deal of attention to building a better America and ensuring that those within our borders are taken care of and have a decent living.  However, we must not forget the horrific images and consequences of September 11, 2001.  We must always remain viligant and steadfast in our resolve to meet the challenges of terrorism, wherever they might occur.  As Thomas Jefferson once said, "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."  Let's not forget that, and on November 4, 2008 elect someone who will protect us here and abroad; not someone who will tear down our military and make us weak in the eyes of the enemy.
We shouldn't be putting this stuff in other countries.  Not only is it a hotbed of conflicting interests for the US, but it creates yet more foreign sentiment that the US' role is to be their benefactor.
Who cares what the Poles want! Frankly the Poles aren't the ones serving in the US Military. No you are not more closer to Americans then anu other race! I think your racist people and you should never be part of America.

I so many of you have so much jealousy over the Latin people in America and have negative comments to say about us. So stay out of our country we don't need more racist pigs in our country!
please publish my comment Obama is truly the only hope for america now please people it is not a gender issue but an econemic and a health care issue also our troups in iraque our young men are dying daily mothers heart is aking please save our youngsters i am a mother help my boy we do not want to waste our precious tax dollars enymore . yvonne
Jamie and others---true the Poles fought the ussr longer than other eastern european 'nations'. however, the Baltic nations provided the longest running opposition.  Lithuanian partisans kept 5 soviet army divisions tied down well into the late '60s. the other 2 Baltic countries-Estonia and Latvia-were similarly successful.
Cuban Missile Crisis 1962 in reverse.  You could have predicted this reaction from Russia 40 years ago.  Bush is revving up the cold war again. Why put missiles that are predicted to not work to defend against missiles that do not exist? The worldwide banking system will jump on it and finance both sides again.  Bush's Granddaddy was on banking boards as far back as WWI.  Before the Bush's were into oil they were into banking.  How many times does this Crook named Bush have to quack before we start calling him a duck?  Get a clue America, you've been had.
Message to all Americans: It is always good to hear the other side of the story; CIA is to Russians what KGB is to Americans; If Russia is evil to you, you are evil to Russia....we could go on forever with this. In my personal opinion America's and world's only hope is Obama, a man with great vision, a man that can mobilize,inspire and unite people not only in the States but all around the world. Thanks to international politics of Bush, McCain and people like them America has the worst rating in the history (which Americans don't deserve)among world countries.
That has to change! American foreign Policy including NATO has to be revised. NATO was formed to protect the Western world from USSR(which doesn't exist anymore)..Look what NATO is doing now; suraunding Russia and expanding more and more towards the east. Would you like that if you were in Putin's shoes? If you would, you better go to see doctor right now!
Countries like Slovenia,Albania,Romania,Poland..... should never be accepted in NATO.That has to stop!
At the end: Who cares about Poles?! They have no clue what is happening anyway.
It's interesting to read what other people and other countries say about our country(the U.S.). Sometimes I wish that we would portray a better and more positive message and attitude to the world. I agree with Chris Houston, TX.


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