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In Russia, Obama beats McCain

Posted: Thursday, September 18, 2008 8:50 AM
Filed Under: ,

 MOSCOW – "I’m against that one – the aggressive one – I'm for Obama," said Valentina Savina, a lottery ticket seller on the Old Arbat, Moscow’s busy central pedestrian thoroughfare.

"[I’m] against McCain," she added when asked what her views were on the U.S. presidential candidates. "He's against Russia."

Alexander Maleshov, a cab driver in Moscow, agreed. "As far as I know, the Republicans are strongly against us," he said.

VIDEO: Russians watch the U.S. election

Savina and Maleshov are not alone in their views of McCain and the GOP, according to a recent poll of Russians conducted at the beginning of September by the Russian Public Opinion Research Center. The survey found that 27 percent of respondents would choose Sen. Barack Obama if they could vote in the U.S. elections, as opposed to just 6 percent choosing Sen. John McCain.

(According to the poll, 34 percent of respondents also said, "I wouldn’t vote for anyone," and the remaining 33 percent responded that the question was "hard to answer.")

The results are partly a product of McCain’s outspoken criticism of the country and its popular prime minister – and former president – Vladimir Putin. For instance, McCain has advocated excluding Russia from the G8 in response to "diminishing political freedoms" under Putin.

They are also the result of McCain being a member of the Republican Party. In a country where the Bush administration’s policies, from the war in Iraq to the planned installation of missile defense systems in Poland and the Czech Republic, are highly unpopular, it would be hard for any GOP candidate to gain much of a following.

Georgia conflict has an effect
Also working against McCain is the conflict in the former Soviet republic of Georgia. The U.S. and Russia have supported opposite sides, with the U.S. voicing strong support for Georgia and Russia backing South Ossetia and Abkhazia, two separatist regions on Georgian territory.

In many ways the Georgia War was fought on the airwaves and the television screens as much as it was on the ground, and Russians’ response to the candidates tend to follow what they heard in the Russian media.

And while both candidates were critical of Russia’s military actions on Georgian soil beyond the separatist areas, many Muscovites I spoke with quoted McCain’s statement at a campaign stop in York, Pa., when he declared that "We [Americans] are all Georgians," as one reason for their leaning toward Obama.  

"In both cases, it will be very hard relations between United States and Russia," said Anton Lopatin, 23, taking a lunch break on the Arbat from his job in financial services.

Many Russians agree with him. Less than a fifth of Russians respondents to the recent poll described U.S. relations as "friendly," "neighborly" or "calm." 

Opposite sides
Overall, the saber-rattling over Georgia has sparked a greater interest in U.S. politics and how it can affect Russia.

In the poll, 47 percent of respondent said they "closely" or "somewhat" follow the U.S. elections, up from 36 percent just two months earlier.

"America, it’s the biggest country," said Natalia Golubeva, a 26-year-old who works in financial services, "so we are also interested in the policy … of your country."

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Comments

If 90% of this country as idiotically brainwashed as it can be concluded from those comments above, Russia has no worry about! From those who've never visited Russia: they have much more freedom and DIVERSITY of press and other mas media than in USA! And if you compare Bush and Putin, he-he-he, I think the answer is clear who is the better one as the leader. Armadillo is not a tioger, and a golf car is not a submarine ;-) Regarding "nothing to give than oil", tell me, pls, on what space ships the American astronauts are going to fly to the Interanational Space Ship (built by whom, BTW) for the next 5 years when Suttles are phased out? And who are those folks in making scientific history at the CERN adrone collider who speaks Eanglish with Russian accent? All KGB agents, or may be scientists? But it is good for my country: as soon as USA has a heard of brainwashed sheep instead of critically thinking people, nothing to worry about in Russia.

RUSSO
26% of the polled russians are like me and a vast majority of americans that would like to lead there lives in peace and productivity. Any article that highlights a country percieved as are arch enemy from days of old, advocating one of our presidential nominee, is of course going to be misconstrued , and used to make that nominee appear sympathetic to that nations interest, or less likely to protect this nations interest. Idiots and schemers make good bedfellows and if your a republican making less than 200,000 dollars a year guess wich one of the two you are. Is it conceivably  possible that whats good for the world is good for america that a russian citizen could prosper and live in peace and a american could do the same if a leader came forth that proposed a break from the past practices. The criteria for insanity, is to repeat a action and to expect a different outcome , republicans are crazy with vainity and image, or with the other "greed". if you make less than 200,000 dollars a year guess wich category you fall in, our leader have failed us,they have made some of believe that others have to suffer if we americans are going to thrive, what a limited and dim view of reality.Russians have a clearer more objective view of our election proceedings americans are to close to it and in most cases subject to it, our opinions are swayed by rhetoric , propaganda and bias corporate ran media. we are the target we are the mark and so we are purposely blinded to the facts and to the truth, some of us are more easily blinded than others and make only half hearted attempts at pulling away the curtain of deception,,,,,,sounds like someone claiming to be a republican making less than  200,00 dollars a year.
What surprises me is when I read comments like some of the ones here ... Saying no one cares what the rest of the world thinks. Do you not realize that America owes the rest of the world? America owes China 1 Trillion Dollars. Of course the rest of the world has a say in American affairs. Those Chinese outfits you wear or the toys assembled in Sri Lanka your children play with - or even the Starbucks coffee you drink ground in Uganda is all part and parcel of the work.

That is why its important to pick a President who is not only strong for America but strong for the rest of the world.

I live in a Great American City and know for a fact that America needs the rest of the world just like the rest of the world needs America. As the world's biggest importer [by FAR] and third biggest exporter, this only shows the symbiotic relationship of the globalized world.

Lastly, I am sure that the Americans who do not value other nationalities' opinions have probably never left their small towns or the American borders to find that other people around the world view America as a beacon of hope. That is their right - and so America actually has a responsibility ...
Now take all of your arguments for McCentury and against Obama, and apply them to Palin who will take over if McCain has any health problems. He is 72 now and had his health broken along with his arms while in the Hanoi Hilton. When you look at the two of them together you can see how old and frail he really looks. Do you really want someone taking over the Presidency who does not even know what the Bush Doctrine is or has admitted to "not really being interested in international politics"?
woah, is everyone on the internet ignorant? we should be interested in Russians opinions because they are another world leader and since we all live together on the same planet we need to learn to co-exist and respect eacother as HUMAN BEINGS and not russians plotting against us.  I say that the fact that a completly different country even knows what leader we should choose and we dont shows that we are just a bunch of ignorant sheep following what looks best to us. Obama is the leader we need not some manipulative lying republican who's only after the best interests of the rich and himself. Does no one care to be educated anymore? open your eyes.
Obama will speak softly while carrying a big stick.
Who Cares what the Russians wants to be the next U.S president. They can't make that choice anyway. So why are you people wasting your time talking about  what the Russians wants to be the next U.S president. Enough Said....
It's obvious Obama will have influence on a world stage. He is a world leader. He is already begining to restore our dignity around the world. He will restore the "Ideal" of democracy. Mccain is just more of the same. We are used to it in this country and it seems the rest of the world is also used to the GOP and it's arrogance. I see strenght in a leader that controls first thru peace. Obama is the reason for the season.
So can we expect an article now from you regarding who the Chinese would vote for?   Or how about an article as far as who "Al Queda" would vote for?  Nice subtle propaganda crap article.   Oh yeah, if the Russians want Obama by all means let's vote for the most ignorant Presidential candidate of all times; McCain.  The funny thing is is just how impressionable so many Americans are and what impresses them.   Now that I live abroad I can tell you that Russians like the rest of the world are a little more in tuned with just how much US politics and economics have a ripple affect to the rest of the world and many see McCain and Palin ticket as nothing but a mockery for USA politics.
It's funny how republicans try to spin what is the common concensus in Russia and Europe, being that they are for Obama, into some stupid notion that they are just doing that to get the "weaker" candidate who they're gonna push around once he's gonna get into office.  
Excuse me.  Will someone please explain to me how a man who spent a great portion of his military life captured, being beaten and giving up American secrets during the war would be tough on Russia?  The only thing he knows is how to get his but kicked.  Some hero.  You people are pathetic thinking this wimp who finally has a little power would/could do anything to protect us.  His intelligence is questionable because he graduated at the bottom of his class and he was certainly dumb enough to not learn the proper procedure to outmanuever from getting shot down.  This speaks volumes about his ability to be outsmart by his adversaries.  His past gives us indication of what he'll end up doing if he was put in a hostile position.  CAPTURED - TORTURED - SPILL YOUR GUTS...  We are in trouble
I think russia is sliding backwards to its old ways and think they are a danger to us and there peoples opinion should not matter to this country at all.Our country is to deside our president not the opinions around the world thats not in our best nation interestesand security.
It matters because its what the people in the world think.We have to work with other people in the world to be successful and really have peace and security.What matters is not creating more enemys and people that dislike us we need more allys to keep this country safe.What does it say that people all over the world that dont live here want a differnet type of president.It shows they are not dems or repubs they are people with brains and minds and see what is happening from the outside.We should respect and learn and take into consideration what other people think.Thats what smart people do is they listen to other people and get opininons and make educated decisions based on facts and opininons and if every one around the world and here in the states thinks obama will unite people and mcain will start more wars we should listen to peoples opininons who are not bias.We share this world with them and if we want respect we give it to other people regradless of race or religion.
What would interesting is to poll the middle east who they would like for president. I suspect we would see simular responses.
ENOUGH of the fearmongering.  The average Russian citizen is probably just like YOU!  They only want a life that is going to peaceful so they can raise their children ETC.  It is the powers to be that have the conflicts with our powers to be.  The citizens realize that with the third reicht views of our current administration that the only saviour from an atomic blast is to put somebody competent in charge!  Therefore the common store owner would want Obama.  The current republican party has brought us closer to WWIII than any other before them!!  LOSE THE FEARMONGERING AND INSANITY!
What is really funny is that anti Russian hystaria has been extremely popular these days. Tough talk and hard line stances taken against Russia have become so mainstream that it is really easy to say that Russia can 'walk all over Obama.' But personaly I think it would be much better in the interest of the United States to have freindly relations with a country that has 16,000 nuclear warheads than could vaporise us at any second. So honestly... I like negotations and friendship than being eyeball to eyeball all over again. Does anyone remember the Cuban Missle Crisis, M.A.D.? It's funny how short memories in politics are. And hey, why not care about other people's opinions? It just might make us a bit less popular on the world stage.
Hey there

As a Canadian, I have no real say in who the Americas pick to be their new leader. I do not doubt at all that both Obama AND McCain have the best interests of their country at heart...but which of them has the best interests of Earth at heart? Who would be the best person to represent America to the rest of the world? McCain is strong, and Obama is eloquent. McCain more militaristic and Obama more diplomatic. Pity you couldn't have both of them in there.
Bush policies have gutted this country, damaged our reputation across the world and put us in a war that we should not be in. Afganistan was correct, Iraq was wrong. Capitalism works great with some regulation. You remove all regulation and we now have the mess we see...

The biggest threat to this country long term is the national deficit. It currently stands at 9.6 trillion dollars. It was 5 Trillion when Bush got into office.
How do we pay for this? Cut taxes again? The truth is taxes have to go up and we need to cut spending. The math is simple.

The current neo-right wing Republicans want this election about God, Gays and Guns. Make it a cultural election, because their policies have failed spectacularly. Where are the real Republicans? Those that believed in the separation of church and state? It's the FIRST ammendment in the U.S. Constitution. These imposters are hurting our country in so many ways. Stop dividing this country on culture and start doing real work!

Warren Buffett (from Omaha, Nebraska) and one of the richest people in the world is voting for Obama. I wonder why?

Palin? What a joke. A hockey mom who scoffs at and makes fun of Harvard grads? Every single person here wishes their kids could get into Harvard!

Obama is the better candidate by far. He will inherit many problems, but at least he will try to do something about those problems. I don't agree with all of his policies, since I'm a Republican, but we do need a change.
Most of you can't find Georgia on a map, so your foreign policy "expertise" isn't worth reading.

Foreign policy is more than "carrying a big stick", as the Iraq War has shown.  We went into Iraq because we thought they had WMDs, well they didn't.  However, because we went into Iraq we didn't have enough troops on the ground in Afghanistan, the correct war, and we let a large number of al Qaeda/Taliban escape into Pakistan.  In turn, this destablized Pakistan, which DOES have nuclear weapons.  Just pure genius on our part.  We gave the terrorists what they wanted...a country with WMDs.  They didn't have one before the Iraq War.

@Andrew Ritch
"If Russia is headed back to true socialism, why wouldn't the Russians like Obama??? Peas in a pod!"

If I'm not mistaken, and I'm not, a Republican President and his appointees (Fed Chairman and Treasury Sec.) just purchased 80% of a company listed on the DOW Jones.  I'm very sure that is socialism, so which party should we be for?
Obama is colder, more calculated than J.McCain. Effervesces naive mannerism that can disarm most hostile adversary. He is Goal-focused. On the contrary, hot-tempered reactionaries always almost live to regret their consequences.
Only MSNBC would look at what Russians or any other country think about our election and the candidates. Of course, most of Europe like Sen. Obama since he is in step with the socialist thinking.
So be it. I'll just scale back on earnings to be under the $250,000 income and will stop investing in stocks so I can avoid capital gains taxes. As far as the payroll tax for SS I'll live with that since we did make a commitment decades ago.
Go Obama! I'll figure out a way to prosper under a socialist regime.
Careful, republicans.  Your xenophia is showing.  Again.  Or is it your isolationist tendencies?  The ones that have served us so well the past 8 years.
Do you right wing nut want a nuclear war?????  What will finally make your day?????  You have the economy in ruins.  We invaded a country and now have the nerve to critisize another country for doing the same thing.  Georgia had just as much of a hand in starting that war with Russia as Russia did.  But no we have to take the usual ignorant postion like we do with Israel, Russia wrong Georgia right.  Israel right Palestinians wrong end of discussion.  Then we try to make the policy smell better by saying " we're just commited, strong leaders."  Come on people, our grandmothers on the old farm with nothing more than 2nd grade education were smarter than this.  I mean really is the ultimate goal to become the owrst country in the world the most hated????  Come on right wing nuts let us in on the plan!!!!!!
I have visited Russia often and know a lot of good people there. Some are members of the DUMA (Parliament) for their Republic (State) and have discussed particularly the Georgia thing.
Interestingly, None give a rip about what happened in Georgia since most don't identify with their Federal government anyway, but all do care what the American people think about them personally and when we use the term "Russian" it applies to the people as well. The American beef is with the Russian government which doesn't give a rip about what its people think about its policies.

The Russian people that I know have a lot of respect for America and its people and are dismayed that we might think of them as responsible for anything that happens over there.
Seeing so many of the Conservative posts insisting that because the average Russian polled feels Obama is the better candidate can only mean he is the WORSE choice only reinforces my view that many of these same Conservatives live in a simple world of 'black or white', 'us or them' choices...  but then again..cowboys rode dinosaurs, which have only existed on this flat earth for the past few thousand years.....
SOME of you people are insane!  Don't you think that Russian mothers worry about their children, do the Russian people not cry when a loved one dies?  Do they not want a better life and strive for comfort and peace of mind?
You would think that the entire country is one big war machine made up of effing aliens from outer space.
John McBush follows the same old grandpa-style of dealing with Latinos, African-Americans, Homosexuals, women or anyone else that he doesn't understand or fears himself - WAR, OPRESSION, and INTIMIDATION.
Oh, that's exactly what this country needs.  More warmongering(aka: $10trillion deficit), wiretapping (aka:privacy invasion), waterboarding (aka:torture), and WMD rallying (aka:lying).
When are the Republicans (aka:bigots, hypocrites, haters) going to WAKE UP?  We live in a global neighborhood and we HAVE to get along.  I realize you all would love to live in isolation as so many of you proclaim - "Why can't America just stay out of it?" UM, where would your car come from?  Where would you take a vacation? Where would your 401K be invested? Who would make toys for your misbehaved kids? MY GOD, where would your oil come from for the massive SUV?
So for the misinformed, try reading something other than People Magazine to see what Britney wore at the last excess awards.
Better yet, ask Sarah Putin if you can live in ANWR, I'm sure she wouldn't have a problem with shooting a few caribou from a chopper to clear a plot - that way most of us wouldn't have to read your uneducated rambling.
And BTW, try using a spellchecker or a dictionary once in a while.
Does anyone remember that Khrushchev met with and sized up newly elected President Kennedy and shortly thereafter we had the Berlin wall and the Cuban Missile Crisis? And do we recall that terrorists sized up President Carter and took Americans hostage from the Embassy in Beirut, Lebanon.  It will be a rough ride with Obama.   Richard--Austin
Russia and Eurabia are understandably pro Obama.  I mean, do they really want a strong, Christain, President.  Of couse not, a weak Muslim leader would be the answer to their prayers.
I was a journalist in Moscow from 1990-1993. I saw the collapse of the Russian Communist party and the resultant near-anarchy. I saw the rise of the Russian mafia, with its shoot-outs and grenade throwing even in Red Square, and its takeover of all things financial (including most banks). Living amongst the Russians (not in an expat area), I experienced 1,000% (or more) inflation every month. Those American free-marketers who advised Yeltsin on how to handle the economy were held responsible by the Russian people for the horrific mess that they had to endure, with the collapse of one system and the unregulated rise of "free-market capitalism." It truly was horrific - like the Great Depression for the average man in the street. What we are experiencing here in the U.S. today is the result of deregulation (i.e. free-market capitalism) and the American people's unwillingness to learn from other's mistakes. The last thing we need in charge is leaders ignorant of other cultures around the world. I'm ecstatic that we have a chance to vote for "an elitist" - i.e., the best. (look up the definition of "elite" if you doubt me. Another 4 years of embarrasingly ignorant leaders (McCain/ Palin) shooting from the hip will do enormous damage to America. If we pass up this opportunity to replace a numbskull with an egghead, the world will surely turn its collective back on us. And diminished respect *always* has a negative effect on the one who is disrespected. America is skating on the edge now; please, people, read both sides of the issue, read analyses, read about other cultures, before you vote!

Obama/Biden '08
Americans are so lame when it comes to Russians. I have many friend there and I just visited Moscow. If you think for one minute they approve of  the current government you would be mistaken. As in the US they go along with the government. No matter what it says, from the view of america from europe we are all fat and rich and deserve what's coming to us. If you want to change that attitude then you better see how how the rest of world lives. Oh i forgot the USA economy is going to hell we will be like the rest of the world soon enough. small cars and just enough money for food and rent.
Hmmm...McCain it is then!
Who cares? Last time I checked, Russians couldn't vote in a U.S. election.
Interestingly enough, a country actually needs friends in foreign countries to have effective foreign policy. So the fact that Russians like Sen. Obama is a huge asset in resolving issues with Russia.
And that's what we want to do, resolve conflicts, not look tough and keep fighting.

This notion runs right into Sen. McCain's mocking of Sen. Obama, his calling of Sen. Obama the world's biggest celebrity. Seeing as George W. Bush lost all the credibilty America so long enjoyed, we must have a president who is internationally popular.

The fact that one needs good relations to resolve problems is something we all learned in second grade. Beleive it or not, we actually need to apply that to foreign policy.
McCain has all the bluster and tough talk that Bush has, so if you like the pretense of strength, go with John.  If you want real strength in foreign policy, that does not use this school bully mentality the republican herd has, vote Obama.  Maybe, just maybe, other countries like Obama because he will not talk down to them like McCain and Bush do, but respect and work with them.
 THESE COMMENTS BEIING SENT OUT BY  MC SAME, VOTERS  DON'T  BE  FOOLED,  WAKE  UP AMERICA ,  NO  MORE BUSH WACKING, WORKING  PEOPLE  NEED  HELP,  HEALTH CARE , FOOD  PRICE ITS  THE ECONOMY AND  END  WAR, PEACE  PEACE    PEACE,  PUT  THE  DEMS. IN  CHARGE  FOR  A  CHANGEEEEEEEE   VOTE  , BARAK/ BIDEN  ALL  THE  WAY
Half the problems with our Realtions with Russia are directly tied to the arrogant foreign policy of the Bush/Cheney  office. Obama will bring respect back to our conutry because is will to drop the charade and talk to the Irans and North Koreas of the work.

That is what is needed simply talking to these countries will get them to lighten up the saber rattling.
You guys can argue back and forth all you want. Whether McCain or Obama win will do a better job than Bush.  Let's hope whoever wins will do what's best for the country, and our economy rather than what's best for his pocket book.
It is hard to classify and put into perspective the opinions of citizens of a country who have lived under the iron fist of the ex head of the Soviet KGB and been fed information and propaganda from government controlled media.  It's unfortunate, the mistrust that exists between our two countries (and others for that matter) and the fact that without either of our governments "acting on our behalf" we would probably have outstanding relations with the Russian people.  It really doesn't matter who sits in the oval office, unless the perception of our people is changed we will always be at odds with our neighbors.  Personally, I don't believe any of the candidates have the fortitude to lead the change in that perception.
Perhaps what happened in Georgia recently is partially in pay back to what happened in the Balkans over the last couple of years? Why is it ok when we promote splinter groups declaring independence in a sovereign country (Serbia) and not ok when Russia does something remarkably similar to Georgia?

What would happen here if a minority group decided to do the same thing?

Bellicose saber rattling on either side solves nothing. Recognizing and respecting differences in national interests might have helped a little.

Our current diplomatic and military policies have accomplished little so far other than to alienate most of our allies and to heighten hostilities with our enemies.
We need Obama to improve our image through out the world not just with Russia but Europe, South America, Central America, Asia, Australia, Africa and most especially the Middle East.

McCain is a Warmonger and will do nothing but lead us into wars that we can't afford both in human toll and fiscal.
Obama needs to run for president of Russia. His past and future policies are in tune with them, they'll love him just like the German's do. Liberals trying to figure out why he can't close the deal with McCain? Look at his main support.. COMMUNISTS !
russians are russians and americans are americans,they dont want to be like you why cant americans get that?your own country is in deep trouble the hypocrisy here is amazing the u.s. is all about land grabs and trying to take over the entire earth.stay out of peoples countries and stop trying to convince yourself other nations want to be like you .the majority dont.russia is a superpower your not gonna beat russia period. they keep you in check.they have all the capabilities that you do and more oil. being tough is not a smart foreign policy, be smart and mind your own, your hands are full as it is!americans are on their turf not the other way around.all you mcaniacs should grow up.there is a reason why people hate us  the world over, and its not because of our freedom ,its your lack of respect for other nations property and peoples lives. that should be discussed more instead of this mucho macho malarchy!mcain is far likelyier to get us all killed use your brains people wake up!
Why can't people who like McCain ever spell?  But I guess when your core are uneducated white people, that's what you get.

By the way, I am white so get over it.
My wife is Ukrainian and her son downloads Russian TV shows, one of which is called "Soldiers." It's not a war-related series, but a soap opera about their lives and families in the modern era. The show personalizes the army and we only have to look at how many young men were anxious to go fight in Georgia to see how effective the series is. Putin is riding a high in popularity while our president is not enjoying such popularity. So my advice to readers is to understand how ready their country is to go to war and how sincere they are in their own individual humanity. Their thinking has been altered in more ways other than TV and it all fits into a master plan that Putin is engineering. No matter what you think of him, the guy's a master at what he does and his voters will follow him to a much greater degree than what we will follow our own leaders.
I don't understand why everyone thinks Obama = communism?  Of course this article will enforce that arguement for those with that point of you, and that's sad.  It's not "Un-american" to be a democrat or to want to vote for Obama and it's short sited and obtuse to think that it is.  No matter who wins the election, American foreign policy towards aggressors will change little.  Do you really think that the president of the USA (democrat or republican) will ever just let Russia "walk all over us"?  Get real!  That will never happen and it's just common republican fear mongering and paranoia to think that that's what'll happen if Obama is elected.  
 
Who cares what the Russians think.  For that matter, who cares what you globalists think. Russians didn't invite or respect what Americans thought about their elections.  Fit for fat!
The article fails to mention a key point -- that the Russian media is state controlled.  If the people want Obama, its a reflection that Putin wants Obama.

Whatever Putin wants, you can guarantee it'll be bad for America.
We need someone with a clear, cool head who will appease instead of antagonize.  We are involved in enough conflicts around the world.  Our soldiers are stretched to the limit and we are spending billions of dollars each day to support those conflicts while everyone at home is suffering.  We don't need to be involved in another conflict.  Diplomacy and peace are always better than cowboy diplomacy and war.
The Mac is THE MAN we need for President in this post 9/11 world.

I'm a registered voter are you?

Not the Whimppy/Whiner "Barack Hussein Obama" sounds like a broken record, not to mention Biden for vp, please, that guy can even pull his own foot out of his mouth.

McCain/Palin or Dumb/Dumber the choice is easy.


by the way I'm a democrat
Funny so many on here are quick to call Obama and his supporters socialist for wanting health care for Americans.  These same GOP supporters have no issue with Bush / McCain plans to spy on Americans, rendering suspects, holding them without trial and torturing them, to require party loyalty tests for government appointees, and limit free speech through police action.  No these are all part of a GOP Democracy BUT health care now that's socialism?  Are you all really that dumb?  


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