I was told 2 weeks before my planned wedding to a Thai lady a few years ago that the cost was $50,000 USD. Her dad, who had a gambling problem as do many Thai men, needed the money for bills. The mother was a teacher, and needed a new car. I figured the rest left over was was for something less important.
I felt it was a way for the poor Thai famaily to make good, their daughter marry a foreigner, not for love, but for the money. Needless to say, there was no wedding. No dowry. I was told later by another Thai that that was the way of the "up country" girls, or little educated and poor. I hope the big dowrys will be a thing of the past, not for me, but for the next poor fool. I love the Thai culture and people, but that practice needs to change to fit into the rest of the world. If the rich stars of Thailand want to do that, that is their perogative. If the Thai's want their daughters to marry a foreigner, get rid of the old system of "paying" for the bride.

They really should move into the modern ages and realize that women are not property, but people!!! How disgusting that we still have this going on in this day and age.

still sell there sons and daughters:(............

I love it. Great Sense of Humor.

I am an American engaged to marry my Thai sweetheart in Thailand . I look forward to giving her family a dowry . They did not ask me for one but they are poor and this is my chance to show them I will take care of there Daughter .

How edifying! I didn't know any of this, and it was not only interesting but entertaining in its delivery. Thank you!

Dowry, although the thing of the past has become a wedding tradition, much like a white wedding gown and ceremony. For a Thai living and born abroad, I know the system well and dislike the idea of it. But I understand that for Thai families, if you love the bride, you must also love her family. That means, you must be willing to do what ever it take to make the bride and her family happy.

Being from the US and living in Thailand for 4 years, I have seen this first hand.  It seems like the higher social status of the family the more likely that the sin sod will be returned.

Many farang (western) men marry poor farm girls from the NE of Thailand.  They are usually asked for a large sin sod and usually do not get any back.  Many guys wind up paying thousands of dollars to marry a girl that has worked in bars as a prostitute.  These women would have a hard time finding a Thai man to marry them after this type of employment and would find it even harder to find a Thai man that would pay a sin sod to marry a woman in this field of employment.

In the NE of the country alcoholism is widespread and most people are in debt beyond their ability to pay.  So they are less likely to give the money back to the couple because it could be used for buying whisky, mobile phones and paying back money lenders.

Thai people, like many other Asian countries are very concerned with "face".  If the neighbor got 100,000 Thai Baht for their daughter, then the next person would need to get more, otherwise they will lose face because their daughter would then be seen as being of lower value.

I know many Thai people that want to get married, but are prevented from getting married because they do not have the money that the bride's parents require for the sin sod.  When the bride's parents are requesting such a large amount, it does the opposite of showing that the husband can provide for the wife.  It puts them in a financial bind just to be able to get married, instead of them having that money to start their life together.

The dowry or "mahr" is also part of the Islamic religion, and it all belongs to the bride, the parents are not allowed to take any of it. But in some instances, the families do benefit. The amount of the dowry is reached through mutual agreement between bride and groom.

Don't believe a word of it, men. My wife promised me her parents would give it right back and ten years later not a cent.

Very interesting. I LIKE your Thai system. I wish my husband had paid my parents a million baht when we got married. That way husbands value you more too - since they paid good money to earn you!

I am a Westerner married to a Thai woman. When this subject came up I told my future in-laws that it would look bad for their daughter in my country if it was known that I had payed a dowry. I suggested that I would pay for 2 trips for them to see their daughter and how much money that amounted to. Everyone was happy with this solution.

I enjoyed this article.  I didn't pay Sin Sod for my lovely Issan bride.  :-)  I expected to hear about it but none was requested.  I have been to several Issan weddings and the bride price was always given back to the happy couple afterwards and it has nearly always been about 1 years salary.  A big show of the bride price is made, mainly for face, but also to tease the broom as being cheap.  I have heard horror stories about Sin Sod but have never seen it, and, they are stories after all.

Though it is a custom of many countries to take or give Dowry, but look at those whow can not afford such tradition, their doughters pass there life in depression, anxiety. Is it better to keep it as a tradition to satisfy the cultural tradition and let these girls become good mothers, and raise healthy nation.

Just to be semantically correct, this is not a dowry, it is a bride price.

The dowry system is a good system, what is the bride is not a good mother (producer of children) what happens to the dowery then or can the husband get his money back.

Yet another Thai who things that all of Thailand revolves around what happens in Bangkok and its middle class.

If you are going to talk about the dowry system, why don't you do some reasearch, being a reporter and all, and try to understand how this systems is truly being exploited by unscrupulous families for their own gain. Research on how families raise their female children to be 'sold' to the highest bidder when they send them down from the country side to 'study' or 'work', when the real goal is for them to land themselve a nice rich (and probably way too old) farang that can be the equivalent of the winning lotto number.

So, Khun Warangkana, considering that you think you are worth more than a million bath (half joking, I know), spend some of that expensive education into something that is more than superficial writing about your nice upper class in Bangkok and their multi-million baht dowry's that are all returned back to their highly educated grooms, blah blah blah.

Talk about THAILAND, for once. Don't get confused with Bangkok's metro life and its disrgard for the rest of the country.

It's a disgusting concept I think

I just had to write about my experience. I meet a wonderful woman from Thailand and came to visit her as a friend in her home country and ended up getting a little more involved than I had planned. We ended up courting after I returned to american and realized I had left behind in Thailand a truly wonderful woman. On the long flight back to america all I could think about was this precious thing and her wonderful family. I had made up my mind long before landing that I just had to tell her I felt about her and wanted to return and Date and get married asap. With the help of the internet we discussed many things and one of the things I found most troubling was this exact thing we are discussing. I discussed with her my feelings and told her that in my country we have a rule about buying people. We once practiced this very same thing and it was called slavery. I understood the parents wanting to have something as a show of my word that I would take very good care of their daughter but purchasing another human being was not a option. If anything it would be a insult for me to offer anything less than the world for such a wonderful treasure. My parents had always taught me that the only thing worth anything we really own is (((our word))). Borrowing money or mortgaging our future for the right of marriage is in a way starting things off on the wrong foot. If love and (((your word)))has no place in the equation I think your shopping at all the wrong places. Needless to say we we married on Feb 14 2008 and my new Thai family accepts me for my word and not my money. So listen up all your foreign men, if your buying your bride in Thailand , shame on you, learn from my experience , if your feeling you need to buy your wife, please go where you came from and do your shopping somewhere else. Thailand is not a meat market and the woman are not for sale unless your word means nothing to you why should it to the Thai people

Peace and Love

Norman Bowe

Thank you for your story, this last 8 months I had a wonderful experience when I asked a stewardess to join me as a tourist at the end of our flight to Honolulu, from Japan.  She is wonderful and so are her other cabin attendant work partners from Bangkok.
We continue to spend time together when they come to Honolulu where I live.  Being a transplant from California I had little experience with Thai culture/customs.  I have dated and had relationships with many different women including, a Sicilian, Irish-Russian[beauty contestant- recipient of the Miss San Francisco Rose of Tralee], three hispanic chicas, four caucasians , Three american born chinese, but I must say Thai women especially these ladies I have met are the most polite, intellegent, courteous, kind, and warm hearted of all.  They treat men with respect and grace thier side when together.  

I am a American born Chinese man, for what it is worth I would pay sin sod because I believe that the cultural custom should be honored before all of our cultures meld together and become non distinguishable amoung the human race.

What makes you Thai and me not is your history and conditonal training.  So I hope you who read this get the chance to meet a woman or man from Thailand and understand the customs that make Thailand the place that generates such balanced worldly people.

Maybe this would be something to look at in the united states.With so many worthless men that dont work and cant seem to understand responsibility.Some thing like insurance for the parents of the bride.If the suitor can't come up with some form of dowrie,maybe he should not be considered a good provider and father.

This was fun to read...I haven't been to Thailand since I was stationed there in the '70s, but the link to the guide to marriage's rural village picture brought back many memories.

All of them good ones; if the people of any nation deserve the sobriquet of "The Nicest People on Earth!", the Thais do.

I am one of those dumb founded westerners. I had found the right woman but she never told me of this system.  I was quite surprised at the "mothers milk" fee.  Granted the family was going to be generous to me as well.  Even though I cannot "legally" own land where they had it I am not sure they knew that and even if they had I think the intention was honarable.  Where my parents are deceased and the girl over 25 (niether of us married children) the mother had the discussion with me versus parent to parent.  I may have be willing to entertain the thought but the family refused to disclose their debts and as the only male of the family I was told I would be expected to assume all liabilities as well as support the family.  I just could not do it.  Not knowing the total extend of what I was getting into and remembering how my mother who had no dowery was required to work for her in-laws for 5 long years due to her short comings.  I am lucky I suppose my fathers generation who did not expect a dowery and change will come to other places as well.  I must admit though until Asian countries come up with mandatory child support laws I can see some value to the security of "mothers milk."  Sadly since returning to the USA the girl has decided I never loved since I refused to send money.  Off course no consideration is given for the fact I had made clear before I came that I was poor and all I offered was my love and since I own my home (no debt) in USA I would be able to care for her seemed to matter as I would not support the extended family.  Note after exploring Thailand quite a bit the tradition seems more deep routed in certain area then all areas.  Kind of like the doweries that still excist in the USA

I would like to know where you can buy a new Toyota Camry in Thailand for a million baht... Try almost three times that amount!

It really is a buyers market there.  Having lived there for 4 years it seems  the more educated and successful a woman is, the less she is desired by thai men.  And it seemed that relationships are quite different than in the west.  Asian relationships don't seem to be so deep.  It is more about performing a role. Though the divorce rate is lower than the west.  In the west we seem to put so much emphasis on the relationship, maybe too much pressure that the divorce rate is over 50%.  
I know I'm painting with a broad brush, I'm not saying one culture is better than the other.  I think its interesting to note the different philosophies.

My Thai wife and I were just kids - I was 21 and still in college - when we got married twenty years ago.

The meager dowry that was requested by her folks was symbolic-only and returned to us the day after the wedding.

I'd hate to think of the dowry as some sort of "fee" that is paid, after which the new married couple has no responsibility for supporting the bride's parents.

It has been far easier to help the family in the 20 years hence than it was to scrape up some dowry cash at the time of the wedding when I was still in school.

Older customs and traditions are a great thing to acknowledge as ceremony, but I wonder if these parents have ever arrived at the conclusion that selling a woman to a man is tantamount to prostitution. And what about their daughters happiness, is it considered at all?

I  have been married to  a thai , when we got married I just told my wife , instead of giving it to her greedy family , that she suported for years. we would just take money and give her daughters a good education in U.S . I felt the same way, she fell in love with me, and didnt care about the money. I know one family that gave a man 65 there daughter at 15 years old. because of the money, this to me is very discrasfull.  when you marry someone ,it should not be all about the money, and that is how 60 percent of the marrigers are over there. old men just buying there wife instead of both really loving each other, and just using them for sex. this to me is not exceptable. to see someone 70years old with a thai women that should be his granddaughter. I love the thai people, and this really bothers me to see this when I lived there. and it really bothers the thai people to.

I like it.  I wish we had it here.  Way too many deadbeats running around.  I am a man and I think the extra competition would be good for this country.  Maybe the women would have a little more pride along with the men when choosing a mate.

Shame on you Norman Bowe,  lecturing men across the globe for buying a Thai bride. You are very naiive. and don't pretend to know anything just because you
married a Thai woman. Just consider yourself very
fortunate.   I am married to one and I can assure you
the entire world is a "meat" market.  How much would a woman like I have cost in america for example.  Well after all the courtship costs of months, if not years, and then the wedding day and then the wedding ring, and on and on, it would be well over 32,000. american dollars, if you paid one million baht for a
Thai bride.  (that is one example) so wise up before you start lecturing the world on Thai women.  You were very very fortunate to "land" a Thai wife, so
just enjoy and save the rest of us from your naiive
lectures.    

Well the tradition exists here in the United States also though it is not look on as a dowry. In the United States it is customary for the bride's family to pay for the wedding at least that is what my girlfriend told me. So I guess I will be having all boys, lol. But that is the custom.

Very interesting.. In Malaysia, there's two types of dowry.  One is for the bride's family to finance the wedding (which is the more expensive one) and the other is exclusively for the bride. Both are the responsiblities of the groom.  

What is prevalent in Muslim countries in the Middle- East that a lot of Malaysian women are not aware of is the practice of pre-nups.  Because wives have less rights than husbands do, parents of brides-to-be make the future grooms sign pr-nups to protect their daughter.  It can range from providing a million dollar home to the bride in five years to a promise never to take a second wife.  ( The father of a friend of mine made the groom promise that his wife will never have to cook or drive.  He would provide her with a cook and a driver).  The breach of this promise is ground for divorce and the return of the bride to her family with her properties intact. There's a good reason behind these traditions as long as you don't go overboard.

As an anthropologist, I have to comment on this.  As Karen Herschell pointed out, this is not dowry - it is what is known as bride wealth (we don't call it bride price any longer as that connotates purchasing the bride).  I teach my students that bride wealth (in its most generic form) is the groom's family's way of compensating the bride's family for raising her.  As bride wealth is found in patrilineal societies, where descent is traced through the father's line, bride wealth makes perfect sense.  The bride and groom's children will "belong" to his family, and any labor the bride engages in will also "belong" to the groom.  Thus, the bride's family is compensated for loss of access to her wealth and her children.  (Keep in mind that her children will still have access to her side of the family; it's just that they don't "belong" to her family.)  
Obviously this is a general description of bride wealth; each society changes to the practice to best serve their beliefs.

I work with a man and his wife both of whom are from Rwanda. He paid a bride price for her as well. Three cows.

When I married my husand 10 years ago, my parents asked for a bride price of $5,000. The money was used to help pay for the wedding and whatever was left was returned as a dowry. It's not as "ugly" as people make it to be. It's NOT buying or selling of a slave. I was NOT sold to my husband nor were my "services" being sold (otherwise he'd be "paying" far more than just $5000). Rather it was symbol of a promise to my parents (just as a ring was given to me on my wedding day) that he'd love and take care of me until death do us part, and that they'd never have to worry about my well-being.  Some of the money along with other gifts worth far more than just $5000 was given as a dowry to us after the wedding to show that my parents accepted his promise to love and take care of me, and that they accepted him and would love them as their new son-in-law.

This dowry practice is actually very common across all Asia, not just in Thails. Even here in America, the practices still existed. When I and my sister got married here in the USA, I provided dowry to her parents (though my wife never got anything back) for my wife. My parents also received it from my now brother-in-law, but they got it all back during the wedding ceremony. Personally, I liked the tradition very well, it shows how much you respect for the women you love and a way of showing how much you mean the relationship.

It is not a dowry, it is a definate bride price. I was 13 when my family was posted to Bangkok, Thailand with United States Department of State. As a Diplomat's Daughter I must have been worth some money, a young Buddhist monk who came to our gate every day once said he would have to beg a lifetime to marry me. "Sin Sod is very high at your house" he said. He was a very young boy. In Thailand almost every man in the country including The King spends time as a monk, in the case of this man his family might have been very ill - he possibly spent his time in the Wat at a younger age where he could receive an education as they recuperated. The Thai system is better than the USA where I paid for a Doctor's education, parents assisted with earnest money for house and I co signed the note for his practice only to divorce without recouping an equitable settlement on GUAM USA. The  Moral is..... better to marry a humble monk with morals than a Doctor offering private practice to people living near a large military base. Guam Courts, by the way, have a practical solution to domestic problems, keep the wage earning man on island to marry a local girl and send wife packing.  True Love is Hard to Find

The dowry is an interesting concept; whether paid by the groom or the bride, it seems to be a way of offering something in exchange for the family's blessing.  It's a good thing that in the United States that the likability factor is often enough to win the parents'-in law favor because considering the financial status of so many Americans right now, I think an American dowry system would mean quite a reduction in the number of marriages that occur these days!

You would never buy a car before you test drive it would you?  Down with the Dowries.  I mean what if she is bad in bed or cant bear childern.  You just bought a busted woman....ick

To Norman Bowe,
Sir, you are right of course regarding the disgrace of buying and selling of human.. but one should be cognizant that cultural traditions such as these, while resulting in exploitation, when executed with the right intentions and values do play a part in society. The are a important method of connecting families from both sides together.

The values you espouse in your comments are valid, but  given the 50% divorce rate in the US and other culturally western nations, are not sufficient for long term happiness. Cultural traditions such as Sin Sod do have a place, but have been warped due to greed  or other low-minded factors.

Hope you are doing well.
Regards,
SM

I recently married a wonderful woman from Nongkhai and sin sod was an issue that was overcome by ensuring that her daughter would be loved and cared for the rest of her life, and that by taking me on as a part of their family I would contribute to the mother's well being for the rest of her life (as a good Thai son would do).

I also expressed my opinion that "buying" a person was done in our country during the times of slavery and that I wanted a wife, an equal partner, not a slave.

Her mother consented to a sin sod equal to the cost of the wedding which was returned to us to pay for the wedding. She was able to save face among the elders who still believe in this practice. She received a nice piece of jewelry as a wedding gift which she wears proudly as a reminder to those concerned that she received a sin sod from her son in law.

How absolutely disgusting-sellign and buying of human beings.

I am Thai woman and I never heard about this story!!!

You can buy a Toyota from the United States and ship it oversea. It would cost you less money.

This website has lot of information on Toyota.
http://www.bestusedcarsite.com

Approve of it or disapprove of it, women are far better off in bride-price cultures than they are in dowry ones. In bride-price cultures girl children have economic value and are therefore raised and provided for. You won't see a man who's spent $32,000 for the privilge to marry a woman setting her on fire so he can marry another woman and get another dowry, as sometimes happens in rural India.

Interesting
Does the same go for a gay man taking a thai man for his significant other?

The sentiments are certainly correct regarding Bride Price in the Bangkok Metro area . It has become a " keep up with Joneses " lottery for weddings . Having to hire hotel suites , catering for 250 hangers on . Dont think of less than 500,000 Bht and that is just for starters.
I married my lovely wife 10 years ago in Chiang-Mai . Dowry or Sin Sid was never asked for or offerred. Yes I have taken care of my wife's family ( Mother and sister ) but nothing more .
My wifes sister got married yesterday in the traditional 'Lanna Style " , a truly charming ceremony where the bride gives a small dowry in gold value about 25,000 Bt. The invited guests are treated to breakfast , lunch and dinner plus all the Samsung and Chang beer they want.The whole do was paid for by the guests themselves who leave an envelope of cash anything from 20 Baht to 1000, according to their means . This is how it works in good honest Northern Thai homes .
Yes their are unscrupulous families who send their daughters off to " work" in the bars of Pattaya , Phuket and Samui , and if we farang  are stupid enough to be sucked in to the honey trap then all fool us .
This is not peculier just to Thailand  

I am an American, have been in Thailand for 11 years, am married to a Thai and we have a 4 year old daughter.

We have lived in Isan (the northeast) for the past 6 years due to my employment being related to agricultural products (starch), but my wife is from the southeast coastal area, near Cambodia.

First, I believe dingdongrb can buy a brand new Camry for about 1.2 million baht, as they are produced in Thailand now. In the past they were imported from Australia and had a 100% excise tax due to the 2.2 liter engine size, and were about 2.5 million.

My wife had been previously married. The comments above about former prostitutes having a small chance of ever finding a respectable Thai who would marry them and pay a bride's price as well are optimistic.

There is no chance.

Likewise, my wife had no chance despite a failed marriage in which she had tried to do everything right.

We were both getting older and neither of us had any children, so we decided to marry and give it a whirl.

I paid a significant bride price and we had a lavish but traditional wedding by local standards to show respect for my wife, her family and her culture.

Half the bride-price was returned and the other half helped her parents with a life-long debt problem.

They always tried hard, just didn't succeed much.

There is a wide diversity in how this issue is handled by different families, as is reflected in the comments.

As for the old farangs seeking a wife younger than the kids they left backhome with the ex-wife, many probably get about what they deserve.

They hope to score a young woman based on the poverty of her family and are then shocked to find out that she married for money.

(The big rip-off is not usually the bride-price.

The big rip-off comes later, as farangs are not generally allowed to own land and are frequently persuaded to buy a house in the new wife's name.)

Birds of a feather flock together, and I doubt many of them (old farangs or young women) ever get what they expect.

There is no single rule followed by everybody on the bride-price.

What should probably be more controversial, however, is the expectation in Thailand that retirement begins at about 50 and children are expected to help support their parents until they die.

While there remains a bit of the tradition that this burden rests mostly on the eldest son who gets the preponderence of the inheritence in return, it is evolving into a system of all children being expected to help.

As an American, the government has taken over part of this responsibility, as have governments in most industrialized nations.

Thailand is going through the transition now from an agricultural society in which people had an average of 9 children to an industrialized society in which they have slightly under two.

Coupled with huge increases in life expectancy, this puts a crushing burden on children.

The long term implications of providing monthly support to parents is, in most cases, much more significant than the one-time bride price.

(I will also note that the average bride-price I have seen is more like 6 months earnings of the prospective groom, but it does vary.)

A typical young couple would struggle here on their combined earnings even if they sent nothing to parents.

This is a significant factor in the recent increase in the average age of marriage here, which is now much higher than most readers would guess.

It also is a very thorny issue in cross-cultural marriages.

We send money each month to my wife's parents equal to the full time earnings of two factory workers, and it is more money than they ever earned when younger.

My mother has always been frugal and a saver, and her savings plus Social Security take good care of her.

How do I rationalize supporting my wife's parents and not my own???

My daughter will be raised being told that she has some 40 years to plan for her retirement, and that doing so is her responsibility.

I will take care of her mother and myself (and most likely leave her a fair aount as well).

She should plan to live her life to the fullest while being responsible for herself and to not try to shift that responsibility to anybody else, and especially not to her children.

The upside of cross-cultural families is the opportunity to try to meld what is best from both cultures.

Each culture has it's own way of "proving yourself" as American Welsh and coming from Celtic traditions, my family's main interest is a suitor (male or female) joing our family is learning what they like in music ("what do you sing?", not if "what instramnets do you play" but My Father established a test for any man seeking to marry me, he had to go into the back yard with my Father and fight him. My Father was very well trained. When I proootested this in 20th century America my Father explained that "he doesn't have to take me down, all he has to do is to get up once I put him down. If he doesn't have the courage to do that he is unworthy. As long as he gets up, he has my blessing" My Mother, also a competant fighter, (it is part of Celtic Culture)At 17 I thought my Father was crazy, at 47, I think he and my Mother were the most sane, and thoughtfull parents ever.  

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