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Experts: battle terror with minds, not guns

Posted: Friday, April 11, 2008 3:57 PM
Filed Under:

By Michele Neubert, NBC News Producer

STOCKHOLM, Sweden Trying to counter the world’s myriad terror threats is like "learning to eat soup with a knife." That mantra, which is actually the title of a counterinsurgency manual written by Lt. Col John Nagl, seems to sum up the tremendous challenges facing the West’s top military and terror experts, many of whom invoked the phrase at a recent counterterrorism conference in Stockholm, Sweden.

The conference, which was co-hosted by the Swedish National Defense College and the UK's Defense Academy, brought together American and European defense officials, police, intelligence agents, and academics, who sat in a converted brewery overlooking the Stockholm skyline, trying to get a handle on the slippery problem of terrorism, radicalization and insurgency.

Perhaps fittingly, the conference began with a one-minute moment of silence to commemorate the anniversary of the Madrid bombings on March 11, 2004. Few in the room needed reminding that Europe is not only a likely target for future terror attacks, but also a potential breeding ground for future radicals.

Former EU counterterrorism coordinator Gijs de Vries discussed tactics at the conference. He said that since 9/11 there has been solid cooperation between the U.S. and Europe, but he conceded that there is a "fundamental difference of approach – which makes it all rather messy."

"The U.S. approaches terrorists as if at war," he said, which he believes gives suspected terrorists greater status than they deserve.

VIDEO: Gijs de Vries discusses terror tactics

"People who blow up men and women are common criminals and belong behind bars, but according to a fair trial," he said, expressing concern over what he considers the U.S. disregard for the rule of law in its war on terror.

"We do not see eye to eye on the way we fight terrorism," he said, cautioning that "the U.S. cannot win this fight alone, but needs to listen to its friends and allies."

According to other delegates, the war on terror being played out on the battlefields of Afghanistan and Iraq is counterproductive. They said the brutal images broadcast from those wars are helping radicals’ recruitment efforts.   

"These images are full of humiliation and they are skillfully packaged to exploit the vulnerabilities of young people," explained Dr. Magnus Ranstorp, one of Europe's leading experts in radical and extremist groups. 

"We need to better understand their alienation, their lack of hope and employ new vehicles, maybe even soap opera stars or Hollywood to try and harness the imagination of young Muslims," suggested Ranstorp. He pointed to an experiment in Indonesia where a famous pop singer's lyrics were used to try and turn some young hearts and minds around by asking, "Who do you want to be with? The warriors of love or the warriors of jihad?" 

VIDEO: Dr. Magnus Ranstorp discusses innovative anti-terror approaches

Since the war on terror is not always fought on traditional battlefields, many believe new tactics are required.

"Modern warriors are different. Now it's a war of ideas, a battle for perception, mostly played out in cyberspace," said seasoned military commander Sir John Kiszely, of the U.K. Defense Academy. "The challenges are broader and more cerebral. These days you need to out-maneuver your opponent mentally rather than militarily."

Which is why Lt. Col. John Nagl, author of the oft-quoted "Learning to Eat Soup with a Knife" book, is concerned. He said it is important to keep in mind the dramatic strategic changes taking place due to the information technology revolution and how it makes terrorists more nimble.    and adapt more rapidly," he said. "The dumb insurgents are dead, the smart ones still alive."

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Can the experts teach us how fight terrorists or armed groups without using guns? Nobody wants wars and the horrors they cause.But no country has been able to protect its citizens and interest by simply talking.
Today' terrorist, and tomorrow's freedom fighters, I think the first thing world needs to decide what is a terrorist? not who, but what?. I am assuming this conference was addressing the Threat West sees from so called Radical Islam, and how to encounter it.  I actually have a very elegant and simple solution.  Give these people a reason not to become enemy of the West. You ask how,  let me tell you my story.  
I grew up in Karachi in the seventies,  one of the best places as a young 16 year old I could go to was American Library in Karachi which in the hot summer month provided me, and couple of my friends a cool heaven away from all the stuff going on in the streets. Two Tall Marines posted at the gates of the consulate looked imposing, but they never stopped us from going in, the beautiful women in the front who alway smiled at us, never stopped us, and we got to read a lot of good books about America, and the best that the West had to offer.  Librarians even gave us a lot of free books and posters,  imagine that, three Pakistani young kids, given all that stuff for free, and allowed to explore the world,  an opportunity that Americans provided kids all over the world in those days,  in some countries, American library was the only library in town.  We became America's best friend, telling every one how great the Americans were, the freedom of speech, the democracy, and people' right to chose.   Now today the same consulate is closed down, and the American embassies around the world sit behind barbed wires, and armed gaurds, not making any friends.  I as a young kid growing up in a very conservative muslim country was given an opportunity to know a culture that prided itself in its values of freedom, and giving every one an opportunity to succeed, and I embraced it, just as many others from all over the world who came to this country to get an education or for better opportunities.   Now this seems may be overly naive, and simple, but if we had taken the same money that we spent in Iraq fighting, and used to educate, and make friends with the new generations of Muslims, we would have had a different world.  I firmly believe that if we in the West today really practice the things that we claim makes our civilization superior, we will have freinds all over the world who will help us erradicate the terrorists.  But we must practice what we preach, we must treat the Palestinean the same as we do the Israelis, and we must allow democracy to run its course even if brings people in power who we do not like, and we must think of all human lives as equal, and not just value the lives of the Westerners.  
I think the arguments some of these terrorist use today to recruit will just whither away, if we change our way of thinking, and actually engage the rest of the world in an honest and serious debate about the future, and not suport some of these fuedal governments which exist in countries such as Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt, and not help them suppress their own people.  Think about it, if we can help people in these countries get an education, a job, raise a family, what kind of support a terrorist organization would find in such a place.
Alas, a thought provoking and potential contradiction.  This would begin to break apart radical fundamentalist and extremist families.  Such an appoach could cause alienation between Youth and their PARENTS.   The youth chooses Love or jihad.  But, the parent insists that they still BLOW THEMSELVES UP.  If the parent wants to be a Murderer, BE BRAVE.  Do it yourself.  Spare your kid.   Let the child love.  You.....hate, blow up and die instead!

Signed,
Utterly bewildered at the logic, unless they can sing adult songs, like Sinatra, for the suicide child's Mom or Dad.

Seems like the Jihad Mom's are the worst.
Done said.

Heck, a dad is dad, would say Go blow up and die!

These "Mothers of children" seem to just not like men, or their husbands are not brave enough to say: Go Die!  So they just say, hey Joe...."your mother needs to have a word with you...sorry kid"



Asymetric combat does depend on minds.  However, the terrorists have us all fooled.  There are two types of wars.  1) A war of anhilation - blowing up your enemy.  2) A war of attrition - getting them from the back side by taking out their recources.  

Do you think that they were hoping we'd spend all our money on building up security, maybe, go after them in a country - Afganistan - where Russia got stuck and drained all its money?  Do you think - Iraq was a bonus that they got to take advantage of?

This is Asymetric combat.  They cannot beat the US Military in battle.  What if they cost us so much money, so much equipment, and our focus.  What if in defense, we keep out people from our country - including people who have brilliant minds - and we experience an intellectual brain drain.  What if the instability raises oil prices and opec nations who are anti-US deceide to play along and won't increase supplies?  What if we start to make Ethanol as a backup plan - only - Ethanol uses corn - demand and prices for corn goes up - so all the farmers start to grow corn and then the supplies of all other crops go down and then prices of everything goes up.  

What if - the way to take down the United States was the same way they took down Russia.  A war of attrition.  If you cannot beat them militarily - why not create a million things for them to chase, to divert their attention, to make it feel like a war of anhilation - while you are actually draining their bank of a trillion dollars.  

And - when the price of oil goes up - we create the largest shift of wealth in the history of mankind.  We send all our wealth over to oil producing nations.

Then - they have the wealth and begin to buy up our companies, a little bit at a time with their sovereign wealth fund.  The fact that they have been draining our recources puts us into recession.

The value of the dollar has been dropping due to the cost of the war.  So, everything they buy over here is cheaper.  Yet, the multiples of money they are getting from oil - give them more money than they ever dreamed.

So - they buy our assets.  All of our assets in this country go on sale and they buy them out from under us.

A country with no assets, massive government debt due to war costs, massive personal debt due to rising food and oil costs - that is a country under seige -
by a war of attrition.

Iraq and Afganistan are now misdirection.  Tools to drain our bank accounts faster than we ever dreamed.

This is a war of attrition - they have beaten our minds.

Sincerely,

Benjamin Corey Feinblum
Ps. If you wanted to take down America - how would you do it?
Although it is easy to say that the U.S. policy has not been successful, and it is not difficult to find mistakes, we cannot know what would have happened had the U.S. not chosen to go to war. I would also like to point out that neither has waging a "smart war of ideas" against terrorists and the terrorist mindset proven itself as successful.
This is total insanity
Remove Muslims (peaceful or not) from America and Europe, and voila! problem solved. It seems like such a simple solution. It's too bad heart-bleeding liberals allowed it to get this way before feeling the need to take security action for their countries.
The only way to stop terrorism is for the religious leaders to tell their people to stop Jihad.  The religious leaders are the ones responsible for Terrorism.  They should learn their religion better if it is a non agressive religion.  If as the Pope said in the 14th Century, Islam is a religion of the sword, then that is what the people will only know.
It is amazing to me to hear Shane's comments about
how he was "Won Over to the American way" in the
'70's by an 'American Library'
How that we americans should educate the world....
We did most of those things since the end of WWII.
Unfortunately, a large % of that money was wasted
and stolen by corrupt goverments we were forced to
work with in those countries that needed it most..
ie...The Philipines, Panama...Ect...
We tried the carrot, but unfortunitaly there are
people who only understand the business end of a
loaded gun. I wish it was not that way but the
truth is still the truth.
We will have to fight this war with brains and bullets
and to do otherwise will lead to failure.
Our country needs to remember what Thomas Paine said
in his 2nd Revoluntary War pamplet "Things obtained to
easily are estemed too lightly". For this generation
to enjoy the Peace and Tranquility we have since WWII
WILL Require an investment equal to the one we made
to win the "Cold War".


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