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When is someone officially dead?

Posted: Friday, April 04, 2008 9:27 AM
Filed Under:

TEL AVIV, Israel – Israelis in desperate need of an organ transplant can now breathe a little easier. A new law passed last week in the Israeli Knesset (parliament) will hopefully help bridge the gulf between Orthodox and secular Jews on the controversial issue of organ donation and help pave the way for more transplants.

An issue which has long been a sticking point in the organ transplant debate in Israel has been the question of when a person is considered to be officially dead. The new law hopes to assuage the concerns of Orthodox Jews by introducing new guidelines for doctors and families to follow if there is an opportunity for a donation.

Despite the change, there is still a great deal of opposition among Orthodox Jews. Beni Moshe, who is number one on the list of people waiting for a new lung, fears it may already be too late for him.

The 46-year-old Moshe, who is married and the father of three, suffers from a severe lung disease which means he is attached to an oxygen tank 24/7.

"I hope the new law will encourage people to donate, I have been waiting since August for a transplant and feel I’m floating between life and death," Moshe told Haaretz newspaper.

Timing critical
For transplants to be effective, medical staff must have access to a donor’s organs the minute a person is pronounced brain dead. At that point doctors can use the heart, the lungs and the liver.

However, up until last week, the medical definition of brain dead was not accepted by Orthodox Jews who believe a person is dead only when their heart stops beating, which is often too late for doctors to use the organs.

As a result, organ donors in Israel are rare – amounting to only 4 percent of the population – leaving 1,000 patients in Israel who are currently waiting for an organ donation. 

New protocol
Rabbi Yuval Sherlo, a vocal advocate for organ donation, is trying to help assuage the fears of Orthodox Jews about the process. 

Sherlo explained that most Orthodox Jews distrust doctors and are afraid they will be too quick to proclaim a relative is dead in order to take the organs. Also, many Orthodox families want a relative’s body to be buried as intact as possible, with no defects.   

Sherlo is appealing to Orthodox Jews to adhere to the new protocol approved by the Knesset. The new law states that once a person is pronounced brain dead and is a candidate for organ donation, the following procedure must be followed: 

  • A high-ranking doctor working independently from the attending physician will approach the family to explain the new protocol and make sure that the guidelines for transplant set by a special committee of rabbis is being adhered to. 
  • The attending doctor will evaluate the patient’s situation and act accordingly, explaining the guidelines to the family again and ultimately giving them the right to refuse the whole procedure altogether if they ask not to go ahead.

But in Israel nothing is easy. Orthodox Jews are themselves divided along ethnic lines. The Orthodox Zionist movement is on board with the new law and the green light was also given by the Sephardic Jews. The real problem lies with the Ashkenazy movement, which adamantly rejected the new law, claiming that taking any organ from a person whose heart is still beating is equal to bloodshed.

It looks like the fate of Moshe, and more patients like him, lies largely with Orthodox leaders, who are expected to call upon their followers to accept the new ruling and agree to donate their relatives’ organs to save the lives of others.

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I see people talking about people who were presumed dead but found to be alive, who can't even give name as to who this was let alone a source for the claim. Passing around Urban Legends isn't critical thinking.
In any Christian religion, I can't think of one reason why we can't have our bodies donated 100% to science. It should be assumed the dead body is going to be donated unless a blood relative (wife or child, sister, brother) can submitt real medical evidence why the body should not be. It would then be upto the medical team to evaluate the claim. It's obscene funerals cost 10k plus just for a few hours of greiving. And think of how many good stories come out of the donation of body parts.
The thing that I always end up thinking when the more strident of us start going on about this issue:

People die, all right?  They _die._  Things stop working.  Things sometimes stop working long before they quote-unquote should.  That sucks, the world is unfair, you can cry and moan and beg all you want about it and it does not change the fact that YOU ARE GOING TO DIE.  I'm actually okay with that.  I'll do what I can to keep myself healthy, and I won't turn away from reasonable amounts of medical care, but there comes a point when I'd rather let the ship go down gracefully than spend all my energy flailing, splashing and pleading for someone to pull me out of the water with their very last breath.  

This is why I find the self-righteous guilt trips about organ donation absolutely gruesome.  Anyone who treats their fellow man like they have no value to society except as a spare-part factory disgusts me.  Those people who give of themselves freely deserve respect, but those who demand it of others are getting none of mine.  And we could all stand to remember the following:

No one in the world has ever died because they didn't get an organ donation.  They died because their own organs failed.  It _happens._  The kind of screaming that goes on sometimes about organ donations only sounds to me like we're trying to blame someone else for not saving ourselves from our own mortality, which is just ugly.  Acts of real, willing kindness should be treasured; awareness of what we _can_ do for others should be kept high, so everyone can make the best-informed decisions and have the opportunity to give whatever they choose; and in the meantime, since no matter what, we're all ending up in the same place eventually, we still need to learn to come to terms with our own fate with a little more grace.  
i was in an accident may 13 04. southern ohio med center called in my family an had a preacher over me . he was doing his thing an i was ok with it an accepted my fate . i could hear everything being said around me . i was at peace knowing my daughter would be alright . it was when i heard the doctor say "prep him" i want to remove his liver , that i mustered up enough strength to yell, you cannot have my body parts . i woke up at cable hosp in huntington west V.
tpday this haunts me . anyone else???????
I agree with Brooks to a certain point. Rich people buy their way through life at the expense of financially challenged people. I wouldnt say one life is more valuable than another, but when it comes to money...they will do ANYTHING to get what they want...but they really arent to blame...its the money hungry doctors, lawyers or whomever is being bought off without morals. But then again, who wouldnt, if they had money, pay off to get what we want? Saints...that's about it!!!
Keep in mind that the organs they're taking out will probably save someones life. Considering how many people need organ donations and how many come back from being brain dead. I think its better for them to do it immediately. Besides which the organ donor knows the risks involved.
The guy in OK doesn't count.  Most folks there act brain-dead as a matter of course.  It is really hard to tell in OK who is brain-dead and who is not.  Take my son, for instance.  Please.
i dont belive in donate organs : and i feel the ones who are geting it as a gift have to pay a furtune for it in wich is a great busnis . brain dad ;no not dead. heart dead yes dead. and for to have a second choise to preformed or not. my sisters brother an law was pronounced brain dead. doctors did all the studies to find the couse ,could not find non. but yet he was in a coma. after two months he walked up healthy as never before. even feelt hungry . so if there is lots of politica about it . i dont thrust these donation of organs . as people are not yet so evelutioned as not to mix in it economical profeting. i belive the goverment should promote cience to find other alternatives then taking the organs from one to other to survive. the problem is that is more easy and economical profetable for them if is taken from a lving been.  the most dangurous animal in these huge sealed one blessed  univrse.... is human been.    wich has the greed of succes even if in expenses of hurting others.  that is including the ones called them selfes decent ones and the ones not.  by the way just giving a look for human rights wich are the first ones to defend and see the well been of criminals. all is about politics !!!!!    
I dont think this is really a religious issue at all. Science has PROVEN that a person is not always DEAD when they are diagnosed as brain dead.  There have been some that have recovered.  Therefore, brain dead is NOT dead.
Heart stops beating long enough, that is dead.  No religion involved there.  Muslims, Christians, Jews and Hindus all die when the heart stops...
I too do not wish to donate because of these wack-o ideas doctors have.
i had an accident may 13 04. i knew i was in pretty bad shape. when i was in southern ohio med center , a preacher over me . i could hear everything being said . i was in peace with myself knowing my daughter was going to be ok. they had called in my family .only afterward did i find out how bad the hosp was saying i was in . but i heard the doctor tell someone " prep him, i am taking his liver" with that, i mustered enough strength to yell: you cannot have my body parts . i woke up in cabble hosp in
west V 3 days later .any one else????
i still wake up at night in chills.
"Personally, I'm listed as an organ donor, and I think the best move the country could make would be to change the laws so that only people listed as organ donors could be organ recepients. Maybe then thousands of people wouldn't die every day waiting."

I've got a better idea, no one who would be ineligible for a transplant for financial reasons should feel obliged to donate his own.

A Tempest in a teapot anyhow, when the Israeli Jews need organs, they just shoot a Palestinian kid in the head.

What about Mickey Mantle and Governor Casey of PA? There is nothing fair in this country including (especially) medical care.

Monte Haun  mchaun@hotmail.com
I believe organ transplants should only be done on those with enough money to take care of the organ after they get it.  I have known people who received organ transplants and then couldn't afford the lifelong required medicines afterward, and died.  What a waste of an organ.  If their insurance, or other programs can't pay the upkeep, what is the use of wasting the organ, not to mention getting some one's hopes up and that of their families only to see them struggle to pay the meds, and eventually die anyway?
Oh, another thought, the heart is not just a muscle. It supplies the brain with oxygen. This keeps the brain alive, so even if the person is declared 'brain dead' the brain is technically not dead. Notice how a 'brain dead' person can live years and the brain does not decay in their skull.  That's because it's not dead.
Next, science is making alot of progress in treating brain injuries, and the promise of stem cell research could lead to even more treatments.  If my SON were declared brain dead, I would try to keep him ALIVE.  Who knows, maybe 10 or 20 years from now, they will be able to repair the injury and he would recover?  That wouldn't happen if he were killed to harvest organs prematurely.  
Fortunately, I have never been faced with either of the heart-wrenching situations.  Anne, I wish your message, so eloquently and simply stated, could reach so many more.  Educate yourself before making a decision.. if it is not for you.. well, we cannot fault you for that, at least it was an educated decision.

Robert.. I pray for your daughter.. thank you also for taking the time to share.
Religious people are not rational beings. Stop them from making ethical decisions on organ donations and stem cell research. If you believe in God use the wonderful brain that God gave you and grow organs in the lab. We will be able to treat every illness and
extend life. When scientists have their hands free from all the religious idiots, humanity will benefit.
My son died 5 years ago today at the age of 29 while waiting for a donor heart. Believe me, I would have given him my own. Instead, I stood at his side as he died and my heart broke.
How many human beings do you know that have died from cancer or other diseases  of the soul? Returning to the point here , have been declared dead because their soul is dead ,or have had their soul harvested?
Pay attention, who ever said to keep church out of Government.. you need to re-read the constitution. It says that the church should not be subject to the Government. That law was to protect the churches from Government rule which is why our founding Fathers created the constitution. Good grief people! Read!
Am I correct in stating that a human heart removed from a living person will continue to function for some undetermined amount of time . Medical professionals ,please educate the masses.
Mike, does that 1 million net worth include retirement 401K's, etc?  If someone works hard and saves they might have home equity..So if someone spends all their money on loose women and fast cars, booze and cigarettes they should get the transplant, while someone that lives in a modest home and scrimps and saves their whole life they don't get one...That is the way our government works now with tax rebates, etc but it isn't entirely fair to workers.  
For those of you who are in "perfect health"... just think... what if you did have some disease where you would die a painful death if you didnt get an organ... or say that (GOD forbid) a loved one needed an organ... What would you want?

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

I am a donor and I belive with all my heart that if I can help someone live then that is one of the ultimate gifts!
Thanks

I am not an organ donor and I don't want to be. I would rather be buried or cremated with my God given organs.
When our granddaughter died we tried to donate her organs but she had contacted sepsis from heart-lung machine. I would give anything to know that someone was looking out at the world with her beautiful blue eyes. We only have our memories of a small six month old who would have been alive had a heart been found in time. Yes, we are are on a harvest any useable parts list but I too would feel more secure about it if test were done over a certain length of time, and each time by a different doctor. Make sure I am dead then you may have what is left.
All I  know  is my brother was declared  brain dead and the doctor gave orders for his  machine to be turned off when my husband who  was at his bedside saw his left  foot move! He went on to live for 10 years.
I believe to be an organ donator is a blessing from God.  Life is a gift from God and we take so much for granted.  We do not want to think about dying and everyone's hope is to live a long and happy life.  But life changes everyday - something unexpected happens and now we need a miracle to live.  Bless those who are unselfish enough to think of others and wish to be able to help someone else live a full and long life because they were not as fortunate.  

Be thankful for the life you have and live every day to the fullest.  Then, when you go to be with your Lord, you will be in his hands, living a wonderful new life.  Your previous body will go away.  If there is any part that will help save another, be thankful you were born to be there for someone else.  We are all brothers and sisters in Christ -  one family.  Take care of yourselves and each other.  

Stem Cell Research is a gift from God.  To be able to grow an ear or an organ is amazing.  People all want to live and enjoy Life to the fullest.  If they grow bodies just for harvest, I do not agree with that.  That is very sad to think about.  Life is to be lived and enjoyed - and we should watch out for one another.  Not judge someone because of money, etc.  We will not be here to worry about it anyway.  

Take care of yourselves and love one another.

Mike Brooks is an IDIOT.  If it wasn't for those rich people making and investing their money he wouldn't have this great CAPITALIST country to live in.
I work for a large hospital and have witnessed what it takes to declare a person dead (in any form).  At any given time during the process there are at least 7-10 different medical professionals evaluating data and making a determination and/ or administering life saving techniques.  Except in the event of the elderly where there is a DNR request in place, every effort is made to revive the patient.  The code team of 20 professionals that answers the call has no idea of person's financial or job status.  The answer the call to save a life and come from every area/ specialty of the hospital.  It is a moving experience to watch so many dedicated people work together with such skill to save someone else.  

I can not image a case where someone in a trauma situation could be declared brain dead in error. I believe this was an isolated incident.  I am an organ donor because I believe everyone deserves the chance of life if God created a human being capable of preforming this miracle.  I am not overly religious, but I believe there is a higher being at work in all situations.  

I do agree that Organ Donor representatives tend to be very aggressive after someone is declared dead, but this is because there is a window of opportunity.  So please make sure your loved ones know your wishes, as we never know what will happen and when.  If you wish to donate, the discussion time within your family does waste precious minutes.

Please be safe to all!
"idiots, zealots, etc..." What name throwing, people bashing is going on here?

It seems that much consideration should be applied to the entire process here.

As a health care professional myself, AND a Christian, I am not sure where the lines are.  I, too, have considered being an organ donor.  This article has given me cause for pausing to reconsider my thoughts, NOT saying I'm changing my mind, just re assessing.  (do you ever check your bank balance?  same thing just a different department of life.)

I lost my mom to an extended illness ten years ago, having done everything I could have done to care for her, for comfort and wellbeing.  I learned much from having her in my home on hospice.  The Bible talks about the Lord having "numbered our days" but I learned that He also has numbered our very breaths, not taking us one breath too soon nor leaving us one breath beyond what we should have.  Too many times the hospice nurses thought Mother was entering the final phase of the death process and things would turn around; so many times that, even with their many years of experience, they quite trying to read the signals and predict what was going on.  She broke all the records.

Thank you for writing and publishing a very thought provoking article.  This article, itself, has passed no judgement or cast any ridicule upon any one; it simply shared information.

We (people) are called to be aware,knowledgable, and responsible in the choices we make (whether it is smoking, eating, drinking, etc.)  I see this article simply as part of that educational process that gives me insight into another view of the options and responsibilities I have in this area of life.
This is a typical problem when logic is presented to people that try to model their decisions off a 2000 year old fairy tale.
Hey Mike Brooks from Oregon:

I make over $100,000 a year & I could not bribe a doctor to get me a liver.

After taxes, mortage (on an 1800 Sf house, no McMansion) Heating oil, gas, preschool & on & on I am by no means rich.  I request you up your limit to around $250,000 a year.

I remember as a kid, there was a head stone on a grave that read "Remember friends as you pass by, as you are now, so once was I, as I am now, soon you will be, prepare thyself and follow me."  I sounds a trumpet that no matter what, regardless of transplants and medical science, we all die.  The choice to postpone the inevitable for another person is personal and despite the debate we all do what our inner voice tells us to.  Whether you view death as deserving of your creator "The wages of sin is death" or view it as a way that mother nature can make room for and improve upon future generations of human beings, it will happen.  My recommendation is to make a differnce in your lives while you are living that resolves pointless death.  Care for one another, pray for your enemies, be reconcillatory.  An organ transplant may save one, attitudes can save thousands.
How can the relatives of organ donars stop people donating, if they want to can they actually do anything about it?
I think some people have a slight misunderstanding of the difference between "persistant vegitative state (PVS)" and "brain dead".

Persistant vegitative state refers to someone who is comatose and lacks normal rsponse to stimuli, but is not "brain dead". PVS is a condition that may or may not resolve. There are still some responces, normal or abnormal that indicate some are of the brain functions.

Brain dead indicates that all areas of the brain and brain stem are inactive and indicates a very grave prognosis.
I have read the good and bad of the organ transplant system.  Brain dead is not heart dead!  As long as the heart is beating the person is alive.  I have never been or will I ever be an organ donor.  

A transplanted organ only extends the life of the recipient a few years.  A quality of life for the recipient?  Maybe and maybe not.  Potential wrong to the donor?  Maybe and maybe not.

Find and cure the diseases that kill, stop the crimes that kill, slow the traffic down that can kill, and I'm sure there are many other ways to stop the problems of those dying too soon and needing a transplant.  

We seem to be inept at avoiding problems, but find it easier to find solutions.  Don't fix it, just replace it.........wrong attitude for all.
Organs(corneas, bone, skin and others) may be harvested after heart stopping death. Other organs kidneys, lungs and hearts are usually taken from someone who is brain dead and is on life support. These organs can also be taken from someone who had died from cardiac arrest providing the death has occured recently but it is prefered to have the tissues that are perfused.
Re: the comments on economic status of organ recipients. Mr Brooks takes it too far, but there are considerations given to the economic status of the recipients, as well as their lifestyle. Organs may not be given to those unable to afford a lifetime of anti-rejections medications, and organs are certainly withheld from those who will not change their  lifesytle, ie, alcoholics or drug addicts. The acceptance criteria are broad, but not without boundaries. I speak as one who assists in the procedure of determining brain death in appropriate patients in our ICU.
they have to have three brain wave flat before can pronounce dead in this country and two doctors . It is safe to do it. yes there has been a few people with one brain wave flat but not three flat brain waves. and if you are going to donate a part to save a life, this i all explained to family. no one is just pulled off suport systems on one flat brain wave and these have to be done at different times.If I had three flat brain waves then my donation would be made. I am a signed donor if have anything any good for someone. it is safe in this country. look it up

Some replies have been informative, some bear thoughtful reflection and some are ridiculous in my VERY HUMBLE OPINION... as in the case of the "$100,000 recipients....hahahahhaa....

But what prompts my out loud laughter and my response is Susan's posted reply...  SO now we are blaming the idiot in the White House when we are on the verge of voting another "idiot" into the White House, who, I am sure will become the "idiot" responsible for the outcome of all things.  
"I" am NOT sure whether there IS an idiot in the White House... Perhaps what makes him who is presently there, or he/she who might be there next, an idiot is that they desire to be placed in the "idiot" spot in the WHite House.... to get blamed for everything, including things like organ doantion....   Truly, I chuckled aloud at the thought that the PRESIDENT is the truly remarkable culprit in the scheme of donating organs.

I can just "see" the stiff neck as some of these proclamations are issued as if to say, "if they would just ALL do what "I" think is right...."

GET AS GRIP!  It's a personal decision, PERIOD.  Do your own research into reputable source places (NOT from the "mothers'/wives'" tales that abound.  Once the personal decision is made, families are informed and if the personal decision is a strong conviction of RIGHT FOR ME or YOU, then no argument will change our minds.  All will then just be "interesting discussion."
Hummmmmmm - I am an organ donor - I don't care who gets what as I will not need anything. If the medical profession is not smart enough to know when a person is "dead", we have more problems than donating organs.
I am an organ donor and I have lived my life my way and would change nothing, If a Dr says I am dead then so be it, if my organs can help another person live a long life then I have done something good for man kind. Something that goes on way to little in the world today!!!
I too, am for organ donation. However, like some on this post I don't think that someone is dead until their heart stops beating. My friend Michelle was pronounced brain dead and had been living on a ventilator for a while. Her family and doctors were finally about to pull the plug but she woke up, and lived for twelve years more! Not only did she live, but she was able to walk with a walker, she talked normally, laughed, and enjoyed life despite some setbacks. I believe in God and that the prayers of the church made the difference. Sometimes God answers yes and sometimes no to each persons situation.
My opinion is not completely on organ donation but rather what makes you dead.  I watched both of my parents die and it was exactly the same.  They were brain dead several hours before the heart stopped beating.  During that time you could see life existing.  As I watched each of them to take their last breath and the heart came to a stop they didn't look dead at that particular time.  I am not sure it took several minutes but some place in that time as we looked the other way crying on each others shoulder and then looked back at them again you saw the real death.  It was so much different.  You can say that the body needs to coast down or what ever you want to say but
I am a Christian and as far as I am concerned that huge change was when the soul left the body.  That is the point you are really dead.  My dad was a little different and no it was NOT my imagination.  I felt NOT saw FELT four angels in the room two were taking him to heaven and the other two were with us giving us comfort.  The two giving us comfort stayed for maybe 10 minutes before I felt their presence had left us.   Comments being made this is why we should not mix government and religion bother me from the point that the suggestion is those of us who have a strong religion should put our religion second to succumbing to the government.  NOT IN MY BOOK. I do not think if we make a choice to allow our organs to be harvested that God is going to send us to hell for doing so.  I do believe however, as a family it is probably not our call.  This should be a personal choice ourselves as individuals and let our family know that is our personal choice to have our organs harvested.  I don't think if I was pushed to donate the organs of my loved one and my loved one had never said this is what they want, that I could do that.  I would feel guilty for ever on making a decision that they did not want.  To me the answer on this whole topic is if you want your organs donated, then you tell your closest family that if something should happen this is your wish.  Don't say nothing and put them on the spot to make such a decision.  Do it yourself and let people know about it in advance.  Using the excuse when we are all well that we cannot discuss topics such as this at family gatherings is just that, AN EXCUSE.  You better believe things like this should be discussed at family gatherings and if you are a Christian Easter Sunday dinner is when it should really be discussed.  Ignoring these issues on the premise we don’t want to ruin our Easter Sunday dinner is just plain stupid.  Get it out in the open and let people know what you want done if something happens is the true answer of this whole topic.
IF the heart is still beating ? AM I crazy to let masacre MY FAMILY MEMBER ? Beside all and above all : I want to go out of this world when the time comes, with ALL MY ORGANS INTACT ! Those who have an illness, need a NEW ORGAN ? Well, NOT ftom me and MY
family ! "WE ALL, DECIDED AN THAT ONE" ! NO DONATION of anykind !
Economics most certainly do play a factor in who receives organs. If a patient cannot afford the surgery or the anti-rejection medications, they are not given the organs. Period. While many folks have fundraisers, rely on donations, etc to achieve the financial status to proceed with a transplant, dollars still trump all. Medicare will pay for a liftime of dialysis for a low income or indigent person, but NOT for a kidney transplant.
Irreparable damage marks the entry point to the fouth dimension.  The ileum is best to understand the spiritual heart of things, scriptually the human heart is only as good as it eats, there-to-fore only the father would "know" when to present salvation.
Hebrews 2:9
Only God know how many days we were given, life is so precious we do not know when it could be our last, love your family as if it were your last days. My 12 year old grand daughter has Cystic Fibrosis and at some time in her life may need a lung transplant I pray if this should ever happen there would be someone their who cared enough to donate that she might live, but I also understand that no matter how much it would hurt and truely devastate our lives she lived the amount of time she was given and has gone on to be with our precious savior and we will be together again in paradise someday. This is a hard call to make I think someone would have to be on the receiving end of an organ to really understand this issue, or have a family member or close friend in this situation. In any case I believe you are gone when your heart stops not when you are brain dead, if you can't use the organs so be it, I do know if I were a doner I would not want anything removed until I was dead as in no heart beat no breathing, gone, kaput, it's over.....  
To Keep Religion out of Government Baltimore MD,

You are mistaken.  The constitution of the United States DOES NOT prohibit mixing of religion and government. If you believe this to be true, you should actually READ the constitution.  Many liberals in this country would have us believe that the separation of "church" and "state" is written into the constitution, but it is not.  The constitution merely prohibits favoring one religion over another.  I see this myth in print over and over again, but that does not make it true.
SDA said:

"Brain death is the complete cessation of all brain activity (electrical, blood flow, etc). When this occurs, it is unconscionable to preserve the function of organs that could save the lives of others."

You'd better look up the word "unconscionable", because you clearly don't know what it means.
I HAVE LIVED MANY YEARS....SO IT WOULD MAKE ME VERY HAPPY TO KNOW THAT MY LAST ACT OF DONATING ANY ORGANS  COULD HELP SOMEONE ELSE ENJOY A LONGER LIFE.BETTER TO HELP SOMEONE ELSE RATHER TO LET THE MEAT ROT IN THE GROUND....
I am amazed at the display of total ignorance displayed in some of these posts.  "Playing god?"  Religion is fine if you want to go there, but it is a good thing that laws are not based on myths and superstitions but on hard science.  Brain transplant anyone?


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