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Mideast conflict becomes mano a mano battle

Posted: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 9:20 AM
Filed Under:

By Paul Goldman, NBC News Producer

I recently wrote about a new video game that gives ordinary Israelis and Palestinians the chance to play the role of peace-maker from the luxury of their own personal computers. 

But just as the game, and reality at the Annapolis Mideast peace summit show, bringing peace to the Middle East is no easy task.

An incredible piece of video, recently released by the Israeli Army, shows how in the volatile ground shared by Israelis and Palestinians – high tech often meets low tech in basic battles for survival.

VIDEO: Israeli drone video of Gaza gun battle

High tech becomes low tech 
What you’re looking at are thermal images taken from an Israeli unmanned drone flying high above on the night of July 21. Two figures catch the eye of the drone operator sitting in a comfortable office far away. The figures are identified as Palestinian gunmen approaching the fence separating the Gaza Strip from Israel. The two gunmen move slowly among the bushes.

An Israeli unit is dispatched on a mission of interception, and you can see clearly that both sides are moving very slowly heading toward a collision.

The Palestinian gunman realizes that the Israeli forces are a few feet away and opens fire. A gun battle erupts. The black dots flying everywhere are the hot rifle shells. At this point one Palestinian gunman lies dead.

The explosion you see on the top right side is a grenade that was thrown by the second Palestinian gunman. The grenade explodes and doesn’t injure any Israeli soldier.

One of the Israeli officers is roughly five feet from the surviving gunman and he decides to charge; but he makes a crucial mistake and doesn’t remember to change his empty cartridge.

This is where low tech meets high tech.

With all the armored gear both sides have – night vision goggles, automatic rifles, grenades, and a sophisticated remote controlled drone in the air – what the Israeli officer is left with is wrestling the Palestinian to the ground with his bare hands.

You can see the officer standing up and running towards the Palestinian, but with no shells flying, he reaches the Palestinian and they are left tied up in a bundle, each fighting for his life.

The Palestinian pulls out another grenade and the Israeli manages to turn the Palestinian in the direction of the explosion, which kills the Palestinian, and leaves the Israeli officer only slightly wounded.

This piece of video is just a small and short testimony to the reality both sides face in this conflict, which occurs daily on the Israeli and Palestinian Gaza border.

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Comments

Wow. Simply, wow.

I wonder what the Israeli defense forces are hoping to achieve by releasing this footage? It reminds me of the live footage the Pentagon released during the first Gulf War - footage that likely served to end the Cold War (by making it clear to the USSR how far ahead the west's capabilities were).

George, Dallas, Texas (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 11:34 AM)

What a testament to this very real world of struggle for life! Despite the use of such high-tech devices as night vision, radio communications and such...the men on the intercept course were not given precise data on the location of the intruders and ultimately are victorious only because of intense training for their survival and defense of their fellow soldiers, and their homeland. My lord...what if our nation were forced to commit our men and women to that same fight here on our own land? Oh I would be so scared! I am reeling with emotion right now from what I just saw. I offer no empathy to those who tried in vain to further upset the delicate balance on which life teeters there in the mideast. I do however send my prayers to all of those involved in any such conflict. Let freedom ring! Democracy is the most expensive purchase and the most precious of all things.

John Doe, San Diego, Ca (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 11:58 AM)

Hello Paul,
This video is a little frightening to me. Imagine! We are experiencing a life and death struggle of two human beings fighting for survival from a drone!  How life has become cheapened by modern techonology. Many years ago, I was travelling in India, and I saw horrible things--people sleeping or even dying on the street, begging for a few paesa for children and babies, as their numbed compapriates eagerly made their way to their office or other daily business. The hardness disturbed me. I wonder what the psychological ramifications of this new video game will be.  More high tech (in both virtual and real worlds) seem only to desensitize our souls and futher alienate us from one another. I liked how you brought home the point that real life scenarios and videos games are becoming far too similar. We choke at the brutality of the Romans watching men die for sport in gladiator matches or even as Christians burned.  We shudder at photos and movie clips of Aushwitz or other WW2 atricities. Are we losing our humanity and even sense of responsibilty to the younger generation by allowiing Palestinian and Israeli youth to live our their frustrations and anger in video matches that resemble the real thing?

Jason Dixon (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 12:37 PM)

well now that is a very differant way of observing battle;compared to way back when.
now with all this PEACE talks and alledged success in getting a agreement just remember all muslims are not to be TRUSTED;and this includes palestinians,--(CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG)not as long as these proxy wars are going on and not as long as the alledged terror types use their children as body bombs(no respect for life of any age!!THANKS IRAN/ HEZBOLLA you have just extended the distrust.in time iran will get the nuclear arm and the middle east will really be in bad shape/all glass no sand and then who will live there than????

lawrence a love (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 12:49 PM)

The really bad part about this is all military use this desensitization of the young for thier benefit. All kids seem to think war is like these video games and until thier first live firefight seem to think of it as just another game that they get paid to do. Boy is it a rude awakening when they realize what live rounds do to bodies and thier game takes on real life issues when they can't just redo a section and come back whole!

Cyndi GA (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 1:13 PM)

War is hell -- G Patton; for all you USA city-slickers living in protected cocoons there are people out there like the Palestinians who will slice you up like thin bacon, or crash planes into your home because they find your concept of god is contrary to theirs. Reality is scary; hiding from it is foolish. Ask not why these evil people do what they do; ask what you can do to protect your country.

StayAlert4willyou (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 1:52 PM)

Hey John Doe 11:58 AM - it was called the Civil War in the United States. Hand to hand combat REGULARLY happened. Oh and by the way, the Israelis do not have a "Home Land". The country was created after WW II. There was no such place before that, but there has been a Palestine there for a very long time. Let's not rewrite history here, stick to the facts!

Steve Parker, Any Town, USA (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 2:06 PM)

My dear fellow travellers,

Evil is not a person. Evil is not a being. Evil is a choice made with the intent to do evil. As such there is  no good in war by design. The men and women fighting it on both sides may be good, but war...war is never good, never right, never justified. Remember the fallen, but seek peace for the living and those yet to live.

A man no different from any other man (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 2:58 PM)

What are we truly fighting for? We all pray to the same God.  We have different names, different ways, but there is only one higher power.   We are one race.  This is what needs to be taught to the next generation, peace will come.

Margo, Denver CO (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 3:00 PM)

I suspect that the real change isn't is how
brutal people are to each other, or even to how
"desensitized" souls or alienation.  I think the
real change is that for some reason you're noticing
it.   Ignorance may be bliss, but knowledge makes you safer.  

Goedjn (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 3:00 PM)

The conflict in the Middle East is bloody and is based on decades upon decades of hatred and mistrust. Talk of peace has always been just that, talk, and no one seems to be willing to achieve real peace. Looking at the video, it's only a samll example of how violence dominates in that part of the world! Just think how awful life must be when this particular episode is being repeated many times over in the course of a single day!

Mike,Washington, DC (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 3:09 PM)

American's (in general) are THE most ignorant people on earth who talk about things as if they know EXACTLY what theyre talking about, when in fact they know nothing.
oh and yea I AM American
What this article suggests but no one seems to get it is that the Israeli forces have all this technology while Palestinians have none. And if youre going to talk about people defending their homeland, well then its Palestinians defending THEIR homeland.

Sara M, New York, New York (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 3:11 PM)

This is for StayAlert4willyou...It was General Sherman who stated "War is Hell", during his famous march to the sea.

Mark Schroeder, Fresno, CA (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 4:03 PM)

StayAlert4willyou, regarding your suggestion that we "ask not why these evil people do what they do," I suggest instead that you speak to someone who served in Korea, Vietnam, Bosnia, Somalia, Afghanistan, or Iraq.  
He or she can explain to you exactly what happens when policy makers make no effort to understand those against whom we may fight.  
We "city slickers" have no illusions about the world.  Instead, life in a diverse city means I can't hide from reality by burying my head in the sand as you suggest.  

City Slicker, Caccooned in the USA (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 4:09 PM)

Imagine this...  A 7 year old girl is walking home from shool with her backpack.  A foot patrol of soldiers comes along.  One of the officers sees the girl disappear behind a bulding.  He breaks away from the patrol, confronts her where no one can see them, and he shoots her point blank, emptying 2 full clips of ammo into her torso.  Now imagine this...  someone (of any age, could be child or adult) is walking around town, minding their own business and...  swoosh, BANG!!!  They get obliterated by an unseen rocket.  The first situation actually happened to a palestinian girl, by an Israeli army officer.  The second situation has happened a few times to Israeli civilians, by a rocket fired by a palestinian militant.  The fact is that both sides commit atrocities.  neither side is fully in the right, and neither can justify any atrocity.  But lets not forget about all the people who live in that land who truly want peace and want to coexist.  I have one friend who is palestinian and lives in Bethlehem.  He has friends in from all over the world, including Israel.  The problem is that there are too many on each side that can't let go of their anger, and feel vengeance in the only choice.  I wish all these hate filled people on both sides would realize that their acts of violence don't just hurt their enemies, but also their friends.  An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, and it never ends.  That is how it has been, unfortunately, since the first time a person did wrong to another.  We need to learn to forgive, or the human race is doomed a lot sooner than we think.

Adam D Montpelier, VT (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 4:12 PM)

DEAR STEVE PARKER, THERE WERE JEWS IN WHAT IS NOW ISRAEL LONG BEFORE THE ARABS, EVER HEAR OF KING DAVID,SOLOMON.PARKER DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE WAILING WALL IS AND HOW OLD IT IS? O YEA LITTLE PARKER WHY DONT YOU AND ALL YOUR WHITE AMERICANS GIVE THE USA BACK SINCE YOU STOLE IT FROM THE INDIAN. YOU DO KNOW THE INDIAN WAS HERE LONG BEFORE THE WHITE MAN. LETS NOT REWITE HISTORY STICK TO THE FACTS STEVE PARKER

BOLT AMERICA (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 4:13 PM)

who lives where is immaterial. the balkans, sudan, kasmir, tibet, and so on are more examples where the answer to life is killing their neighbor. common ground is trumped by differences. we better learn from this or we may choose the same answer.

larkin,cincinnati,oh (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 4:13 PM)

steve parker anytown usa)
i suggest that a little more research needs to be done on that comment
the muslims chased out all jewish people from palestine 2500yrs ago it is all in the history books then after ww11 the world polititions made it happen;by the way did you know that the british were occupyiny pallestine and did you know that the palistinians and muslims nut were assisting the nazi regiem---hm lets see some fact there buba!!!!

lawrence a love (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 4:20 PM)

Beg to Differ Steve Parker, Palestine did not come into existance until the break up of the ottman empire. Before the ottoman empire that small crescent of land was called israel. When Palestine was carved out it included what is now jordan israel and parts of sauid arabia.

John Doe , Dayton Nj (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 4:23 PM)

To Steve Parker: You obviously don't know history... The jews had the land long before the palestenians. Jerusalem was there home and has been taken away multiple times. The palestinians were originally called philistines and were known to travel the mideast. The Jews setteled and were constantly attacked as they are today.Jerusalem as their capital had the Temple built 2 times and destroyed 2 times and evidence and history proves this... you need to learn your history before condeming another.

Bernie (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 4:23 PM)

Ummm...a few of those commenting seem unclear on the concept.  There is a VIDEO GAME to which Mr Goldman refers; there is also the AERIAL DRONE tape, which is what we call reality. Try to keep up...
 Frankly, war might be a bit less widespread and perhaps less widely destructive if it was still a hand-to-hand affair. Targeting a laser guided missile at an infrared video signal is a bit different from driving a sharp object into another living person (...or, so one would imagine).  
Nice to see that Hamas is not only stuck in the 13th century in their philosophy, but in their military techniques.  Ah, tradition... Hey, good luck with that world jihad thing---all of us in actual countries, with actual moral codes can't wait to see how it works out. Think I'll side with the Israelis in this one.

M Lyster (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 4:27 PM)

steve parker anytown usa)
i suggest that a little more research needs to be done on that comment
the muslims chased out all jewish people from palestine 2500yrs ago it is all in the history books then after ww11 the world polititions made it happen;by the way did you know that the british were occupyiny pallestine and did you know that the palistinians and muslims nut were assisting the nazi regiem---hm lets see some fact there buba!!!!

lawrence a love (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 4:31 PM)

Hey Steve, assuming you are not an American Indian, I guess you and I don't have a " Home Land " either

Jim McKenzie (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 4:31 PM)

That footage wasn't available for the cold war. It officially ended with USSR in 1989 when the Berlin Wall came down. The sad thing is that people are attempting to make money off of a platform that is based off to separate culture's hate for one another. This goes back to the basic fundamentals, within American laws, that freedom of speech and capitalism does not always provide the most socially acceptable results, be it a video game or a rally in your town square. The fundamental flaw of this is that people or companies recreate death for the sake of making money. The fact that it is related to global issues concerning the mutual angst of neighboring countries adds to its ability to make money. They may/will play this game because of emotional value that relates to this experience. Does it support any type of potent diplomacy or effective peacemaking efforts? No. Does it make a software company money? Yes. And that's the bottom line. Emotional spending...and yes it is part of many business/revenue models...for whatever it's worth, I too feel that it is in poor taste and horrible timing.

Shamus, Louisville, KY (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 4:36 PM)

The value of this type of video is to let the instigaters know they are going against a people how have the resources and resolve to use such in an all out effort to be a prepared and safe as possible. Watching thermo images is not likely to desenstize the viewer like "games" that put the "gun" in the hands of player and let the blood fly. We in America have to know that the battle is real and coming to us in our neighborhoods and homeland. What we see here in not a Proxy War the Israeli forces are defending thier homes and lives from border jumping armed killers. May God preserve life on all homelands and may we be ready to defend ourselves if needed. Do not be misled into thinking this fight is only somewhere else.

Obie, Ellensburg WA. (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 4:41 PM)

Do you Americans have any idea how stupid you sound!
This is the 21st Century and most people of the world realise that we are all brothers - The idea of WAR is out of date. Americans are bring brainwashed by the "Military / Industrial Complex" so that they can make you feel afraid and take your money from you as "protection money". There is nothing to be afraid of. Usama Bid Laden was just an isolated crook taught by the Americans how to maximise the destruction he could inflict on Russian boys and it has back-fired.

Joe O'Reilly (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 4:46 PM)

The Palestinians were there first, and they will fight the hardest to keep what was taken from them by the West.

How many times were the Hebrews enslaved and/or run out of their 'holy land' in their own mythology?

The only solution is to cut the land in half, give one half to each side, and withdraw all monetary support from either nation.

Let them fight for it on their own.  We've been wasting time and money of getting two groups of religionists to agree on something that their religion will not let them agree on.  Let them kill each other until their religious delusions fade and they can approach each other as human beings.

Sean, Torrington CT (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 4:59 PM)

From the Web:

In 1938, when President Franklin Delano Roosevelt spoke to the Daughters of the American Revolution, he began: "My fellow immigrants . . ." With those words, the president underscored our roots.

The Statue of Liberty inscription begins: "Give me your tired, your poor / Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, . . . " All of us have immigrant roots. Our ancestors traveled over polar ice caps, across rolling seas, or through barren deserts—but we all are links in a long chain of blessings that brought us to this land of great opportunity.

This is Howard Butt, Jr., of Laity Lodge. Never forget that your story does not begin with you. What begins with you is every new opportunity to answer—the high calling of our daily work.

When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.
(Lev. 19:33-34

Delmar Fairchild, Barron, WI (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 5:06 PM)

This is the most ignorant thread I've ever read.  Shamus, the attached video was taken from an Israeli recon drone, it is not a video game.  Lawrence A Love, the Muslims did not chase the Jews out of Palestine 2500 years ago, since there was no such thing as a Muslim 2500 years ago. Personally, I don't find this video so shocking.  Graphic, yes, but combat is and always has been a horrific affair, regardless of the era.  I feel that the only real hope for Arab-Israeli peace is some kind of combination of a two-state solution.  Maybe W. can get us on the right track in Maryland?  I know it's a long shot with weak Arab and Israeli leaders and a lame duck US President, but it is the only solution that makes sense at this point.

Sean, Huntsville Alabama (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 5:44 PM)

That's one perspective, Shamus. Mine is that seeing combat takes theglean off the glory. Killing is an ugly but sometimes necessary act. No one should speak of it lightly or be ignorant of its reality. to the extent the video accomplishes this, it is good.

Jimmy Vet (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 6:38 PM)

How did we get to this place? At the end of World War II, there were millions of homeless Jews with no where to go. No western nation wanted to take any of them in. Even two years after that war, the U.S. had only allowed 5,000 Jewish refugees into America. No one wanted the Jews, so the U.N.,in 1947,by a vote of 33 to 13, lead by America, took Palistine  from the native Arabs,where they had lived for over a thousand years,in relative peace with native Jews, threw them out of their lands and gave it to the Zionist Jews. We didn't want to accept any more Jews in the U.S., and yet we needed them as a counterbalance against increasing Soviet influence in the Middle East. The British, sick of the whole business, dissolved their mandate, and split. That's how we got here. The Arabs learned about how to fight using terrorism from experts. the Irgun,and Haganah. Until Israel addresses some of the wrongs they have perpetrated upon these people, and the U.S. starts acting with a fair hand, this Murder in the Middle East will go on as long as 1 Arab and 1 Jew are left.

Downbubble (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 6:40 PM)

It's all funny to me, regardless of whether wars now resemble video games or not, it is not the video game generation that start them, it's the good old fashioned leaders, unfortunately it is the video game generation that ends up fighting them, as I know too well from personal experience. Whether the new Call of Duty is a great game or not will not start a war, but religious disagreements, money, industry and economy will.

Michael, Clarksville TN. (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 6:44 PM)

I like this comment, it is almost as good as the one about the Gulf War convincing the USSR that it lost the cold war when the cold war ended several years before the Gulf War.
"the muslims chased out all jewish people from palestine 2500yrs ago"

Dude, there were no muslims 2500 years ago.

The lack of knowledge about history is astounding.
The willingness to broadcast that ignorance is frightening.

Rod, Houston (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 7:12 PM)

Before you comment about "videogames desensitizing children to violence," please READ Paul's article on the videogame in question, and realize that it has nothing to do with the video of the real firefight posted in the article.  

It's a political simulation game for Israeli and Palestinian kids where the player attempts to use negotiation and navigating the risky waters of Mideast politics in order to bring a *peaceful* end to the middle eastern conflict.

It's a sincere effort to educate the new generation on the issue of peace for their future.

With so many commenters seeing the word "videogame" and immediately assuming that the violence in the *real life* video must be from a video game because "all videogames are violent," it's distressing to see that the real conflict is being cheapened by a sensationalist knee-jerk reaction to certain... key words that emerge.

To you commenters and readers who seem to, for some reason, believe that this article at all mentions anything about violence in videogames...

You should be ashamed of yourselves.  This attempt to use videogames and modern digital media to teach peace and perspective to young Israelis and Palestinians is a timely and wonderful thing.

Chris Daranouvong, Seattle, WA (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 7:40 PM)

Technically speaking, any who is born somewhere has a homeland.  Our children's homeland is where they were born.  My homeland is technically Louisana, even though I have migrated to Iowa.  Iowa is my home now, yet I respect the people that have lived here their whole lives and I try to follow their ways.  Their ways as opposed to forcing them to conform to my ways.  Yes, atrocities have been committed, but instead of forcing old hatreds on new generations, why don't we lead our children lead for a while?  Kids don't have the prejudices we do and they base their feelings about others on what they see and what they know; I've yet to see two kids refuse to get along just because of their country of origin and until we force religion on them, I've never seen two kids fight over who has a better god.  It may be time to take a step back and quit thinking that we as adults have the know how to run things when we can't even get along with each other.  We spend so much time listening to people tell us who to not like and not nearly enough time giving people a chance to show themselves for who they really are.
I know we're not likely to achieve this goal or even make a step to try it.  It's too easy to think of someone else as bad and too hard to consider that they may be another human being just like yourself with a lifetime of experiences, memories, and feelings.
I'm not saying we should just roll over and die.  I'm just saying that we should, as a planet of people sharing the same common homeworld, lay down our arms for five minutes and take a good close look at one another.  We are all the same race and our petty disputes of who's from where make no difference whatsoever on the fact that we share this planet as a singe race.  We are humans.  We would do well to unite under this truth.
That goes for the 13th century as well as the 21st.  Our children would be willing to do it.  What makes them inferior to us when it's US, the adults, that are always telling them that it doesn't matter where you're from or what you look like?  Is it just so important to hate for reasons we have been told and have told are silly and ridiculous?

Jeremy, Waterloo, Iowa (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 7:45 PM)

Reminds me of Rhodesia...a tech heavy and militant spartan society (Israel) fighting an eternal battle against a fanatic and determined native population that is ultimately destined to win by grace of numbers and resolve (Palestine).

Harun, anytown, Texas (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 8:00 PM)

I was reading the comments attached to the video and am I the only one who may see another angle here. People talk and talk about how kids are becoming desensitized to violence by seeing gory movies and playing video games. As I type this the lead story is a shooting at a mall, killing 9 people. I'm sure it will come out that this 19 yr old shooter played video games probably first person shooters.  I see this activity of people killing other people as normal albeit, rare human behavior. Its just that we have become so modern and enlightened that we have become aware of ourselves and our behaviors and the damage they cause the society as a whole.Twenty four hour news bombards us with constant videos and breaking updates of  anything unsocial. That's what news is By way of  making laws  against crime and defining legally  the age of consent,  we define what is acceptable and what is not.
In this state, in  Arizona, In the Old west days we used to hang people for what amounts today to stealing a car. It was understood that if you got caught stealing a horse, a trial was a luxury you might not well be afforded ( yet we speak of the Saudis cutting off hands as being barbaric under their version of Shariah law).
We try to correct ourselves as a society and we as a social species are very successful. Humans history has shown us that we have been very violent to each other. As society gets larger without the space to expand it stands to reason that violence and crime would actually rise on a per capita basis.  We do what we can, sometimes less and can always improve on what we do to teach civility and reasoning and coping skills.By pointing out and becoming offended by the aberration's in society we are in fact applauding the successes as well. We would do well not to restrict the personal liberties of individuals to play video games or to take the responsibility away from the parents from deciding when its OK to play what video game. Too many people are willing to take away peoples rights on the basis of protecting children. Children who would one day grow to claim what by then would be a memory of those non existent rights. Seeing video like this should not bother us.It should remind us of who we are not. The fact that we may become their victims causes anxiety and fear. Beware those who would exploit your fear.

Kevin, Phoenix , Arizona (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 8:51 PM)

This is for the John Doe that was "so scared". It seems that he doesn't have any confidence in U.S. Soldiers, Marines, Coast Guard, and Airmen to defend our homeland if we had to on our own soil. I can tell you from great experience that we will do the same thing the Israeliesdid and better! We never will give up and we will win; everytime. I can understand if John has never really seen what the American military can really do except on TV. We are the baddest bunch ever to walk the Earth; you can take that to the bank. Americans have nothing to worry about if we were ever envaded, because we will repel that silly, weak try, by the monster force we, the American military, are! Have faith in the U.S. military that we will always take the fight to the enemy and never fail. God Bless America!

Splysinsgt (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 9:42 PM)

Seems to me that people forget these wars have been
going on for centurys, not the last two or three. The
trouble with American Policy is that it is based on
'GREASE MY PALM!' They are too often referred to as
religious fanatics, but I would say they truly believe tehy are right.  Look at the price tag on
BIN LADIN.  Jesse James would have died of old age if
his followers believed that sincerely.  I believe
God appears in different ways to different people.
I don't think that it is right to shove one's down
their neighbors throat at gunpoint.  And yes; as a
student of history, the Jewish people were there 1st.

hap cole, pencil bluff, AR (Sent Wednesday, December 05, 2007 9:47 PM)

PLEASE STOP making war a video game play by play.

John DOe, Seatllle, Wash (Sent Thursday, December 06, 2007 12:41 AM)

You guys who keep contradicting each other are all idiots. just let everyone there duke it out and whoevers left can pick up. Life itself is an atrocity. nobody in any conflict is completely innocent. and why are we even talking about this? its a flipping tape!!! theres nothing we can do about it! let it go! and get a life while you're at it!

Jon Mackowitz, Arcadia, California (Sent Thursday, December 06, 2007 12:41 AM)

The Cold War actually ended before the Gulf War, due to economic collapse but thats besides the point... The Israeli's are trying to make the point that despite peaceful efforts on both sides, there's always going to be the renegade gunmen. Or they're trying to show what they deal with on a constant basis.

Sam, Fairfax, VA (Sent Thursday, December 06, 2007 12:47 AM)

Not so long ago there were no "americans" (I'm sure native "americans" would probably prefer their original tribal names) - History remembers the winners. Like it or not that's just the way it is.

Oh Canada (Sent Thursday, December 06, 2007 1:08 AM)

"steve parker anytown usa)
i suggest that a little more research needs to be done on that comment
the muslims chased out all jewish people from palestine 2500yrs ago"

Thats funny, I thought Islam was founded about 1400 years ago. I think Lawrence needs to hit the books for some of that research he talks about.

Think before you speak fool (Sent Thursday, December 06, 2007 2:04 AM)

Does it really matter what happened 2500 yrs ago, you going by history books? History is written by the victors right? People keep dwelling on the past nothing will ever change. Peace is a joke in the middleast. Nothing will change if everyone keep talking about who killed who's great great great grandpa.

contractor, iraq (Sent Thursday, December 06, 2007 3:43 AM)

lawrence a love

I suggest that you be the one who does the research before commenting on other people. You say:
"the muslims chased out all jewish people from Palestine 2500yrs ago it is all in the history books"
Which history books are you talking about man ?
I doubt there are such books simply because:

THERE WERE NO MUSLIMS 2500 YEARS AGO

It was the Assyrians, Babylonians, and the Romans who exiled the jews from the Palestine in that order.
Approximately 2500 years it was Nebuchadrezzar II who conquered the jews, enslaved them, and sent them to Babylon.

I suggest that you "lawrence a love" and other ignorant people who wish to play the KNOW-IT-ALL-MAN role to do a little reading or some research first.  Before critisizing other people and chastising them about things you know nothing about.
Let me give you a little jumbstart read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_ancient_Israel_and_Judah

Goodbye lawrence a ignorance Oops! love

a muslim, somewhere (Sent Thursday, December 06, 2007 4:23 AM)

I am so amazed at you Americans and your total ignorance.  From your cozy armchairs in the USA you offer opinions about peace here.  Come to Israel and then JUDGE!  Watch as the PLO takes your tax dollars and spends them on new weapons.  SEE the Israelis build a barren undeveloped strip of land the size of New Jersey into a modern cultured DEMOCRATIC country.  In Israel the population is made up of all religions, all races, and they coexist.  Citizens of Israel are not only from Israel but originate from Yemen, Russia, the USA, Canada, South Africa, England, Ethiopia, Jordan the Phillipines, France, and South America.  When you support the PLO you support a country that abuses women and children and all human rights.  Then go visit the Gaza Strip in person.  See the destroyed homes and business of Gush Katif that were handed over forcefully to the Palestinians.  Watch the videos of them breaking the gorgeous infrastructure that was there and come see how they actually live. You can have peace with people who want peace-not with people whose whole mindset is to destroy and hurt-even using their own women and children as weapons.  

Faye from Israel (Sent Thursday, December 06, 2007 5:20 AM)

I am American Indian , Apache. Do the Israelis have  a right to defend the land they live on? How long should they  just stand by  and build fences? We are not talking about america, people.  there are no border towns being bomabarded with suicide bombers daily here!  Let them defend there families!

John, houston, TX (Sent Thursday, December 06, 2007 8:33 AM)

We should all be able to agree that they both claim that land. Well, so do Christians. What is not said here is that 3 Relgions were born in that area of the world. Mohommad even stated that what he wrote is from an Angel with a name that escapes me. He even wrote about Jesus being a prophet. At least he recognized that he was a very important reglious figure. Our religions are all based as well from one man. Abraham. Ever hear of him? He was Jewish. If they would just settle down a bit and take a look at history they would see what IS common.
This is why we have to keep religion out of politics. If we don't we will be no better than these extremists. I have read many times that Islam is a religion that teaches respect of others, yet are you allowed to bring in your religious articles into their lands? They are not very tolerant of others. That has to stop. The Muslims here say that Americans are not tolerant? Take a look around. If we were not tolerant would we have the diversity that we have here? I doubt it very much. This country works because of the diversity. We are hated because we ARE tolerant of other people and their beliefs. Ok, there are those that are not. If Palestinians really want peace then it is up to them to stop the bombings and get the Hezbullah out of there political arena and sit down and work on Peace. Tell their neighbors that want to destry Israel to calm down. They are there and will be and it is time to do a real peace.
As far as American's wanting war? Do we? I don't.
When it comes to wars, as someone suggests, they are all bad. Yes, they are. But sometimes a war needs to be delcared and fought. WWII was and is the best example. Depilmacy did not work. Why? Because of greed.
When it comes down to brass tacks, read your history and don't just read from one source. Read from as many as you can.

JG, Mpls (Sent Thursday, December 06, 2007 9:19 AM)

Regardless of who is wrong or who is right in this conflict in the middle east or others across the world, it is evident that unless negotiations take place, borders are drawn, and peace is accomplished, either ourselves or our offspring will be subject to the atrocities of war. It's incredible to me that our politicians continue to argue about nonsense simply to gain the public's approval, when we have real, global threats to deal with, such as rivalling nations and the prospect of nuclear war. Come 2009, think about who will make the best peacemaker abroad, elect a president with integrity. America, do not think simply about our country, but think globally, for our future on this earth may depend on it.

Davey, FL (Sent Thursday, December 06, 2007 9:36 AM)



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