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Radical clerics challenge Pakistan

Posted: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 6:23 AM
Filed Under:

By Carol Grisanti, NBC News Producer

 

“In New York when Rudy Giuliani was mayor and he closed the brothels and all those things, no one said he was an agent of the Taliban, did they?” Maulana Abdul Rashid Ghazi shot back to a question about the creeping Talibanization in Pakistan’s capital, Islamabad. He was referring to Giuliani’s campaign in the ‘90s to clean up Manhattan’s Times Square, ridding the area of strip clubs and X-rated video stores.

 

Ghazi and his older brother Abdul Aziz run the Lal Masjid (The Red Mosque) in the heart of Islamabad. The sprawling complex consists of a mosque and separate religious school (madrassa) that houses several thousand boys and girls.

VIDEO: Watch an interview with Maulana Abdul Rashid Ghazi

 

The mosque, a well-known center for radical Islamic teaching, has become a symbol of the growing threat of Islamic militancy in Pakistan and the government’s inability – or unwillingness – to confront it.

 

The latest drama surrounding the two brothers who run the mosque began in January, when the city government tried to close seven mosques it says were constructed illegally on encroached government land. Ghazi and his older brother Maulana Abdul Aziz (a maulana is an Islamic religious scholar) responded by calling for jihad against what they refer to as the “un-Islamic” government of the president, Gen. Pervez Musharraf.

 

At first, hundreds of young girls from their madrassa, clad head to toe in black burkas, picked up sticks and were dispatched to seize and occupy a children’s library next door.

 

The government surrounded the library and threatened to storm the building in a bid to end the occupation. Later, the two Maulana brothers organized vigilante anti-vice squads and sent the male students to threaten the owners of music and video shops. There was also a symbolic bonfire of DVDs and CDs one night outside the mosque. Eventually, three women were kidnapped and accused of running a brothel. One was even made to confess her so-called sins on national television. 

 

The country’s newspapers screamed “Anarchy” and called the young female students “Pawns” and “The Burka Brigade.”

 

‘This system has to go’
During all of this time, the Pakistani government backed down, tried to negotiate with the clerics and promised to rebuild the demolished mosques. But that was not enough.

 

“We think the country was established in the name of Islam and it is high time we should bring the Islamic system to the country,” Ghazi explained.

 

“This system is not working properly, the system has almost collapsed, this system has to go,” he said.

 

Ghazi, 42, bearded and wearing a red and white Arab headdress, told me it was my choice as to whether I covered my head during our interview. Initially, I did not cover up but it soon became clear that he just would not or could not look me in the eye if I remained bareheaded.

 

So I donned a scarf and asked him about his attitude toward women. “Look,” said Ghazi, now much more relaxed with me, “the media is saying my students are throwing acid on women who don’t cover up. I say prove it. Show me these women disfigured by acid. Where are they? The media is saying I am not allowing women to drive. I say, my wife drives, she takes the children to the market herself, so how can it be that I allow my wife to do all these things and I would stop other women? … Not so. It’s all propaganda.”

 

What comes next?

Ghazi is the public face of the mosque. He holds a Master’s degree in history and speaks fluent English. His older brother, who is also the chief cleric, preaches fiery sermons against Musharraf and his pro-American policies every Friday after prayers.

 

The majority of Pakistanis are wondering where all of this will lead. How can the government fail to act against a minority of extremist mullahs who do not accept the “writ of state” and are flouting the constitutional laws of Pakistan because they have deemed those laws to be un-Islamic?

 

The two brothers have threatened kidnappings and suicide attacks if the government does not accede to their demands to the establishment of strict sharia (Islamic) law throughout Pakistan.

 

On Friday, they upped the ante by abducting four police officials in what they say is retaliation for the government’s detention of several of their students.

 

The government was compelled to respond. Police and paramilitary troops have once again cordoned off the area around the mosque complex but so far have not received any orders to storm the facility. The two brothers along with thousands of their students and supporters are allegedly armed and have built up defensive positions on the roof of the mosque, the madrassa and the children’s library.

 

“If we are attacked, we will defend ourselves by whatever means we have,” Ghazi said.

 

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Comments

thiese news articleby US media is so typical and full of distortions and why is it all foucused on islam and some little its bitsy domestic affair thing going on in one corner of islamabad that realy affects the rest of the world that it has to be put on the main healine screen while theres wars going on and disaters and thousands serious crimes etc.. can anybody with trying lower their ignorance with some rational you can see whats wrong US media this lady is typical of whats wrong US and western media its pure hypocrisy half the stuuf written are unconfirmed information and biased like "kidnapped" Who opposes realy with some moral and decent mind what that msjid did if you realy read from pakistan TV of what happened with interviews with the students their has been thousands of similar moral actions takn by christians in the USA like against abortion doctors and abortion is something legal while prostioution is not oviously the US media has other prioritys then little tiny moral action in some little corner of islamabad and on top of that to distort things aswell only one answer this part of the campaign against islam also well known that CIA has been allocated funds to run anti-islam programs such as internet sites and media organisations what if their was a brotel next to a christian univercity dont you think the students will take action first maybe protest and then warnings and then if authorties dont do something action taken this is what exactly they did and is anybody aware of the hypocrisy here there is an organisation called jesus girls they do similar things go into brotels maybe not capture them etc.. but these women if you know their true story they will tell you why they capture them check youtube of their testimonies if you can understand hebrew
Yeah Assad; Tell that to the people who didn't make it out of the twin towers, or the London bombings, or how about the misunderstood perpertrators of the Spain train bombings? Southern Thailand? Philippines? Who's lying? Radical Islam is the worst plague to ever hit this world and if we do not get a grip on it and soon, it will surely be hell on earth.
Pakistan must stand up to these Islamic terrorists. If necessary kill them all. They are not messengers of God, but of a system of thier own making.
... Nobody hates Muslims as much as some Muslims hate themselves. Where is all of this madness leading? Using children to promote violence instead of educating them to promote freedom? Ask most people with radical Muslim beliefs and you will notice the narrowminded stubbornness that leads to all of this nonesense. It's time for radical Muslims to join up with the rest of the world and educate themselves instead of wasting their lives blindly following someone's beliefs because their choices are limited. The same goes for any religious oriented microcosms. There is no Racism... just lack of knowledge and broader education. There's no Freedom unless all cultures and beliefs are considered and respected not imposed.
Nuke all these muslim countries and get it over with already. At some point there will be another Islamic attack on the United States that will force us to destroy them. They believe if they are killed in battle that will be rewarded in the after life, so why not help them get there. It is better they die than us. And while we're at it we should send all the Muslim immigrants back to their homeland, since 25% of followers under 40 think suicide bombing is ok.
news for Asad,new york. try explaining that to the families being buried today because some sick islamic blew themsevles up in a car or other in a bunch of people they did not know.by the way i noticed you attached almost the whole world in your own message :my friend, choke- cough cough . i believe you! to be one of those now.
I gotta say... I am sick of people and their "gods". I dont know who is worse, some dipstick politician in the U.S. exhibiting piousness for votes or people whose religions disregard half the population. Or religions with boundless wealth that contribute only a fraction of that to the people they insist they are saving. Or the guy on TV that promises that "god" will grant your prayers for wealth if you pick up the phone right now and "pledge". After thousands of years we still fight wars in "gods" name. Killing folks is still religiously fashionable all these years after the crusades. So cross yourselves, bow to the sun,wave chicken bones over a steaming turd,pray, beg, for afterlife in the company of virgins or goats whatever your preference. Seek solice in an image toasted miraculously on a grilled cheese sandwich but do it out of sight and silently.
These modern day ayatollahs are actually ISI agents in disguise.Their eventual goal is to thwart the efforts of NATO/US forces out of Afghanistan and restore their glorious Dark Age of Talibanism in both Pakistn/Afghnaistan ane spread it deep in to Secular and Democratic India by way of trouble region of Kashmir. Bush(and whoever follows him in 2008)should concentrate heavily on this entire region rahter than itching to bomb Iran and get bogged down in Iraq.
Good Islamist? The ones that don`t take part in terrorism are afraid of the ones that do. They are all guilty by association of the same. Great point Phillip!
wonder if a nude beach would do well in islamabad?
Good Islamist? The ones that don`t take part in terrorism are afraid of the ones that do. They are all guilty by association of the same. Great point Phillip!
As a spiritual person and an American, I can say I do not hate Muslims. I do not identify with any religious creed or doctrine, though I believe in God the creator. What is happening is the fear the terrorists are generating is causing many Americans to hate radicalism and those who teach/preach it. It is difficult to distinguish it as radical Muslims blend in with the rest of society and are able to commit their attrocities on innocent persons. No, I do not like what my government and the monster oil conglomerates have done in the Middle East and other oil producing countries. I advocate reducing and eliminating our dependence on fossil fuels and foreign oil for many reasons; the environment and how it causes such highly charged political issues in the countries where it is mined and pumped, to name two. I respect and honor all my fellow humans on this planet, but the only people I see blowing themselves up in an attempt to take out as many innocents in order to achieve notice and sympathy for their plight are the radical Islamic Muslims. It's like shooting yourself in the foot and wanting people to feel sorry for you. What happens is they just thing you are crazy and need to be avoided. I truly wish radical Muslims could find a more peaceful, civil method of making their point. To me, suicide bombing to kill innocents is more horrid and dispicable than anything a major oil company or *any* country has ever done to provide fossil fuels for their people's needs. If radical Islam wished to instill fear in the world, what they've accomplished is hatred for them and those with whom they associate. And don't blame the media. You don't see reporters or cameramen blowing themselves up to get their point across. How silly.
well most of those children come from poor families and they fall into the hands of these Mullahs who misintrepret islam and use islam and and these kids for their own political interests. These Mullah's live large themselves. They have good houses, nice cars, maids at ahome and properties.If they truely want sharia way why can't they start from their own home by donating their riches to the poor like our great Caliph Hazrat Omar Farooq and Hazrat Abu Bkar Siddique did. I think poverty and curruption are the basic issues they should be concentrating on both the Governament and these Mullahs. On the other hand being a muslim i do believe in islamic and cultural values but in moderation. If someone covers her head or shaves his beard is their own choice. its their personal act and its between them God. Turning these little things in bid issues is jsut a big drama staged by both the governamnet and the Mullahs and who suffers the consequences is these poor people.
The reality is radical Islamic extremists are nothing more than power hungry tyrants who are perverting the religion of Islam under the guise of "pseudo" religious scholardom to gain control over the uneducated, illiterate and gullible. A big problem is the passiveness or fear of moderate Mulims in confronting those who would blow up children and denigrate women in the name of their God!
God gave man the freedom to choose or not choose religion in his life. No man (or peoples) has the right to enforce their religious views on others through threats, violence and intimidation. The radical tenants of Islam are fundamentally flawed and not compatible with any other religion, period. It's a brainwashing of the worst kind that will usurp societies unless it is stopped...NOW!
Unfortunately, most Americans DON'T see how big this problem is. All we have to do is look over at how Europe is doing these days, and we can understand the fundamental incompatability of Islam with the values of Western liberal democracies. Islam isn't going to go without a fight - the question is, are we?
Asad, what are you talking about. media does not give any bad names to muslim, we do it themselves. and you know that. all of our teachings and even our elders talk about this stuff in everyday life. our religion is the most intolerant religion in the world by far. look here in america we have a mosque and islamic center in every city pretty much and we dont' even allow other religions in saudi arabia and iran and even in pakistan. we dont' give almost no freedom to our women, convert ppl almost forcefully, if we are good ppl will embrace islam on their own, not the way we are doing. we never pick on our ppl for all the horrible thingswe do. look at all of our muslim brothers propering in america in academic and businesses, do you thing we will allow any americans with business loans and everythign else in our countries. and the answer is no. our ppl are out of control.
All religions suck, All can be radicalized and all have one thing in common, subjecting other people to their beliefs it doesn't matter if it's christains or muslims.Some muslims right now are doing the same thing the christains have done in the past.The just aren't killing people again, yet. My brother believes the United states should be governed by biblical law old teatiment style. He is a idoit also. Don't be fooled there are alot more idiots just like him.
dear asad,et al,new york please leave and go back to where ever it is you came from and just know we don't want your views and comments put on us. we are a free country. the use of violence to press your point will not work in this country. good luck back home!!!!
to the writers who condemn these fanatics: there may be hope yet for the world. after reading the koran, one thing i am convinced of: islam may be recognized as a religion, but it also meets every criteria as a cult.
The fact of the matter is, right is right and wrong is wrong. No one can have any illusions that these clerics are not kidnapping and killing people. The Pakistani government clearly needs to stand up to these people who are only a minority in the country. Any form of brutal extremism, whether it's these clerics kidnapping and killing people or Christians killing abortionists should never be tolerated. The should be arrested and prosecuted. God is not a God who would advocate any of this.
It is an unacceptable proposition that a Taliban style government would come to power in Islamabad and gain control of Pakistan's nuclear arsenal, however small it is. The dogmatic and confrontational governing style of the Taliban would likely reignite a nuclear standoff with India, an escalation of which would bring us to the brink of nuclear world war. It would also cement Russian monopolization of the Caspian energy reserves. The result is that American foreign policy will take the same dangerous tack that ultimately underpins the current geopolitical strife. The US will continue its support for Musharraf in opposition to a less palatable alternative, despite his oppressive dictatorial hold on the country, potentially creating yet another iteration of the puppet despot archetype.
Its amazing how naive, ignorant people (yeah I'm talking to you Phillip Lamar of Colorado) of our country fail to distinguish between Muslims and Islam. White supremacists of the KKK do NOT represent the entire white race...the Crusades of the eleventh to thirteenth century do NOT represent Christianity...King Herod's 'Maassacre of the Innocents' does NOT make all jews murderers. No matter how diplorable and hateful all current manifestations of religions are, try and separate between people who "have" faith and people who "practice" faith
COOL!!! I can remember NOT LONG AGO when all was being done to keep the word "Islam" out of American media. Now, that's all they talk about. It's like the water burst the dam and the non-muslims are in fear of drowning. Calm down. What you are witnessing is a "controlled" exploding nova.
I'm with Asif Nawaz on this. Being a non-religious Brit, who happens to live with two Muslims, one a Pakistani, what he said makes the most sense. Islam is a generally peaceful religion, but just like most things, it can be abused. I think these scholars should be burnt, and these kind of ideas left in the dark ages. Humanism seems to be the way forward.
Pakistan must stand up to these Islamic terrorists. If necessary kill them all. They are not messengers of God, but of a system of thier own making.
Hey I've heard that Pakistanis have eaten Indians to dispose of the bodies they killed. Dam there hungry people
It is very true that ISLAM is the peace ful religion but there are always certain % of people who interprete it differently and these Maulana's are part of that small minority. Govt of Pakistan does not want to take drastic Action where there is bloodshed from both side so they are giving them time to behave otherwise that would be the last action.If they want to Implement Islamic LAWS they need to win the election with a majority and then they can decide that will never happen that they will gain the majority where 85%of the people are moderate.They practice religion in there home.President Musharraff is a sincere LEADER and he is bold and God forbid if times comes he will not hesitate to take action.Out of all the POLITICAL parties in Pakistan when they could not do any thing against the Govt, they Got a point for SO CALLED CHIEF JUSTICE and started the agitations?Thats mean being the Chief Justice you can Call and force People to get his SON promotion/Admission even though he Flunged the EXAM.If thats the case of Superior Judiciary then should we trust our Judiciary. There are Rates Fixed for Different Cases in Pakistan and these Lawyers are the TOUT of the judges.They are the front man for the JUdges.All previous Govt were involved in Corruption on MASSIVE scale but not this Govt, atleat no scandal?
The problem with all modern religion (Christian and Muslim) is that we have become followers of men, no longer followers of God. Men will twist religion to suit their own means and gain political power on both sides. Go back to Zoroastrianism which predates all of them and has "good thoughts, good words, good deeds" as its only law.
Seldom a day goes by that the newspapers and television are not filled with reports of new Islamic terrorists activities somewhere in the world. The media has been known to bend the facts to their liberal slant at times, but to think they manufacture news is moronic. The world must face the fact that Islam is a violent, hateful, fascist religion. Islam is the scourge of the world and will only be satisfied when no other religion or form of government exists. Wake up world. We should love the Muslim as a people, but recognize Islam for the evil that it is, and the suffering it causes. No concessions should ever be given to those trying to make change by intimidation, threats, or force.
who bombs innocent children and women in Afganistan and Iraq from B52s? who has created Guantenamo Bay and Abu gharib where thousands of human beings are chained and thousands of women raped respectively? who is the only one to use nuclear bombs in 1945? whish country's diplomat said it was logical to kill millions of children in Iraq? the answer is obvious. and certainly not the people in this report
Asad, I have lived and worked in your country during Zufikir Ali Bhutto's government. Any culture that allows and even encourages people to maim their children because they make better beggars is one that has serious problems. The propaganda that is being spouted by the Muslim clerics is just as false and just as misleading as anything in the western press. The only thing is we tolerate you in our midst which is more than I can say for much of the Muslim culture, Pakistani or otherwise. That tolerance will only last so long. So be careful as to who you call a liar.
Well Asad I am not a gullible American and I don't believe what you spew. You live in the US but obviously have a problem with them and all of these lies that you talk about. You must be talking about the freedom of the press that exists in China and alot of these muslim countries such as Syria, Iran and the like. Its people like you who take mistakes by the US government and turn it into some kind of plot against you and your ilk. Your obvious bias sickens me as you came to the States for a reason but obviously forgot what it was as you sit in your safe secure cushy world.
If Iran gets nukes, or radical muslim extremists overthrow Musharraf and get control of Pakistan's nukes, all this debate of Islam being the religion of peace sure will seem quaint.
Oh, it is cleaver to try to equate this with Guiliani's clean-up campaign, but it is, of course, false. The clean-up of the Times Square area was economic, to preserve and enhance the real estate value and to preserve an area where one could take children without the threat of having to explain things one ought not have to. That is a far cry form the theocracy these clerics would see in Pakistan. Read the article and you can hear the Storm Troopers again on the march. And where are the women's rights organizations? Where is their outcry? Are they fitting themselves for burkas?
If those 'Maulana' really want to stop brothels from operating, then they should come up with the alternate means, so people involved in that business can earn their livelihood by doing other jobs and then request those people quit this business voluntarily. Stopping them by force will make things even worse. Just like Afghanistan during Taliban where women had no option except begging. Turning prostitutes into beggars is totally un-Islamic.
Why don't they just close all the mosques and confiscate the land that was taken by the government if these people refuse to live under the rule of law? That's what Lebanon is doing with the Palestinian terrorists who live there. Most Lebanese embrace the rule of law, and if there are people who hate the rule of law then that is illegal by definition.
When a "Christian" bombs an abortion clinic or commits any other act of violence, mainstream Christianity openly condemns the act. When a radical Muslim commits an act of terrorism, mainstream/moderate Islam is silent. If Islam is so peaceful, why do the "moderates" refuse to openly denounce terrorism?
There are some good quotes here, but many of the responses just show how conflicted we are on this issue. Some people have said that Christians don't use children as suicide bombers. That is true TODAY, but don't forget the Children's Crusade, where children were sent from Europe to win back the Holy Land from Islam. Also, don't forget how bitterly the Catholics and Protestants fought just recently in Ireland. Is Islam evil in itself? I don't believe so. But, trying to apply centuries-old religious edicts to modern-day life is simply ignorant. Should we apply medieval medical technology to the patients of today? Should we have built the Astrodome with only the use of the Flying Buttress? Is the Earth the center of the solar system and is it indeed flat? Why do we still cling to traditions and ideals that have no relevance today? These brothers are DANGEROUS! Not because they believe in a radical form of Islam, but because they are willing to put that belief into action, and they are willing to teach children that it is ok to kill others that do not believe as they do. America was founded on the ideals of religious freedom and tolerance. But, we also need to weigh that tolerance against those who would use it to destroy us. Do not tolerate evil, wherever it comes from, and especially when it has already been the driving force for a deadly attack against our country. Does the American media love to overstate things? Yes, because it sells. But, read the article...are they lying about the soldiers that were kidnapped? Are they lying that these people want to attack us?
The two brothers are not representative of large majority of Pakistani muslims. This episode is an example of mullahs love for power and possessions. The suicide bombers on the otherhand doit because their existence has been made full of such pain and they do not possess hitech missible bombs as their opponents do. Many in civilised society will be will to die under those conditions and for their cause.
musharraf should send military imeediately to control or kill these fanatics
I see a few of you must not have read the article. If you actually did, then how did you graduate from high school with such poor reading comprehension skills? Show me where the author says that all Pakistanis are "acid-throwing, women-hating, "radicals"? The article is about two brothers, their students and followers, not all Pakistanis.
Perhaps everyone who feels sympathy for these thugs and the brainwashing they give the children forgets what we learned from the Taliban. Female women and children ate last, got no medical attention, were executed for crimes such as dress, makeup, trying to go to school, etc. Why are so many Americans blind to the fact that as this spreads, it will eventually come to America. There are now 2.5 million muslims in the United States. The day may come when you will either convert or be killed.
Let women honor kill and stone the men.
islam is a violent cult, they are scarry,they want world domination, so free americans cant do what theywant with out worrying about getting beheaded. they love to kill innocent people those muslims,i was in the middle east a few years ago before 9/11 and they hated us then, so becareful ,, we should nuke the whole middle east and start over again, wipe out all themuslim mosques and turn the whole place into a huge parking lot,
is it just me or does this guy look like ringo star??
The reality is radical Islamic extremists are nothing more than power hungry tyrants who are perverting the religion of Islam under the guise of "pseudo" religious scholardom to gain control over the uneducated, illiterate and gullible. A big problem is the passiveness or fear of moderate Mulims in confronting those who would blow up children and denigrate women in the name of their God!
Unfortunately, you have to research things to understand them...not take the word of of someone else (especially bloggers...). Many people are ill-informed and believe anything they read. Certainly, read any article with skeptism and if you like, verify the facts. But most certainly do not take the word of some 'blogger' who has no experience or background (generally) to provide information, comment or opinion of other countries. For the record, I agree with the viewpoint of this article...
Most of the right wing fanatics in this blog have no concept of what the religion (Islam) is versus the cultural problems (dictatorships, women's rights, etc.) are! The US media and govt. have done a masterful job in the last 50 years of brainwashing average Americans against Islam to further Zionist and imperialist policies. Until people look at the root causes of problems, (it is not religion because ALL religions have good and bad in them). we cannot have a peaceful solution. There is open war on Muslims around the wrold, and then the West is surprised at the results?? The US, Britain and Israel have systematically killed and injured millions of Muslims in the world over the last 50 years, and now the West is paying the price. You reap what you sow, and what goes around comes around. (who used atomic weapons, what religion were the Nazis?, etc.)
David B sums it up pretty well. These people want WW III. This country etiher does not want to understand that or is simply unwilling to accept that fact. Islam is committed to the utter destruction of the United States of America and all that we stand for. Maybe the US is wrong in its values and policies maybe it is right-as the saying goes; the winnes write the history books. I do know one thing; the United States of America has provided me with an opportunity to make something of myself and I have done so. This is because of the men and women in uniform who have decided that this country is worth fighting for. God (not allah) bless them.


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