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Radical clerics challenge Pakistan

Posted: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 6:23 AM
Filed Under:

By Carol Grisanti, NBC News Producer

 

“In New York when Rudy Giuliani was mayor and he closed the brothels and all those things, no one said he was an agent of the Taliban, did they?” Maulana Abdul Rashid Ghazi shot back to a question about the creeping Talibanization in Pakistan’s capital, Islamabad. He was referring to Giuliani’s campaign in the ‘90s to clean up Manhattan’s Times Square, ridding the area of strip clubs and X-rated video stores.

 

Ghazi and his older brother Abdul Aziz run the Lal Masjid (The Red Mosque) in the heart of Islamabad. The sprawling complex consists of a mosque and separate religious school (madrassa) that houses several thousand boys and girls.

VIDEO: Watch an interview with Maulana Abdul Rashid Ghazi

 

The mosque, a well-known center for radical Islamic teaching, has become a symbol of the growing threat of Islamic militancy in Pakistan and the government’s inability – or unwillingness – to confront it.

 

The latest drama surrounding the two brothers who run the mosque began in January, when the city government tried to close seven mosques it says were constructed illegally on encroached government land. Ghazi and his older brother Maulana Abdul Aziz (a maulana is an Islamic religious scholar) responded by calling for jihad against what they refer to as the “un-Islamic” government of the president, Gen. Pervez Musharraf.

 

At first, hundreds of young girls from their madrassa, clad head to toe in black burkas, picked up sticks and were dispatched to seize and occupy a children’s library next door.

 

The government surrounded the library and threatened to storm the building in a bid to end the occupation. Later, the two Maulana brothers organized vigilante anti-vice squads and sent the male students to threaten the owners of music and video shops. There was also a symbolic bonfire of DVDs and CDs one night outside the mosque. Eventually, three women were kidnapped and accused of running a brothel. One was even made to confess her so-called sins on national television. 

 

The country’s newspapers screamed “Anarchy” and called the young female students “Pawns” and “The Burka Brigade.”

 

‘This system has to go’
During all of this time, the Pakistani government backed down, tried to negotiate with the clerics and promised to rebuild the demolished mosques. But that was not enough.

 

“We think the country was established in the name of Islam and it is high time we should bring the Islamic system to the country,” Ghazi explained.

 

“This system is not working properly, the system has almost collapsed, this system has to go,” he said.

 

Ghazi, 42, bearded and wearing a red and white Arab headdress, told me it was my choice as to whether I covered my head during our interview. Initially, I did not cover up but it soon became clear that he just would not or could not look me in the eye if I remained bareheaded.

 

So I donned a scarf and asked him about his attitude toward women. “Look,” said Ghazi, now much more relaxed with me, “the media is saying my students are throwing acid on women who don’t cover up. I say prove it. Show me these women disfigured by acid. Where are they? The media is saying I am not allowing women to drive. I say, my wife drives, she takes the children to the market herself, so how can it be that I allow my wife to do all these things and I would stop other women? … Not so. It’s all propaganda.”

 

What comes next?

Ghazi is the public face of the mosque. He holds a Master’s degree in history and speaks fluent English. His older brother, who is also the chief cleric, preaches fiery sermons against Musharraf and his pro-American policies every Friday after prayers.

 

The majority of Pakistanis are wondering where all of this will lead. How can the government fail to act against a minority of extremist mullahs who do not accept the “writ of state” and are flouting the constitutional laws of Pakistan because they have deemed those laws to be un-Islamic?

 

The two brothers have threatened kidnappings and suicide attacks if the government does not accede to their demands to the establishment of strict sharia (Islamic) law throughout Pakistan.

 

On Friday, they upped the ante by abducting four police officials in what they say is retaliation for the government’s detention of several of their students.

 

The government was compelled to respond. Police and paramilitary troops have once again cordoned off the area around the mosque complex but so far have not received any orders to storm the facility. The two brothers along with thousands of their students and supporters are allegedly armed and have built up defensive positions on the roof of the mosque, the madrassa and the children’s library.

 

“If we are attacked, we will defend ourselves by whatever means we have,” Ghazi said.

 

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Comments

what's wrong with strip clubs and x-rated video? why is america so prude?
what's the name of the author of this article? why does he hate muslims? why all the articles that portray "muslims" as "radical"? i'm sick of the racism.
they are not "extremists". and if they are to have a true democracy, all opinions should be valued.
those radicals are no worse than our radical evangelicals who think we're on some type of modern-day crusade in the middle east!
Articles like this just spread hatred. This is an example of how the American Media (at large) had portrayed all Pakistanis... as acid-throwing, women-hating, "radicals". This is the type of crap that leads to large misunderstandings amongst peoples, and eventually leads to war. MSNBC sucks for printing this crap.
they are agents ans paid actors by ISI and Musharaf to show to the rest of the world that how Pakistan is under threat of Talibanisation if Musharaf is removed and military rule is challenged.
these are the same people who had the Pakistani Minister of Tourism resign because there was a picture of her hugging her jump instructor after a successful parachute jump. So a picture of a woman hugging someone is enough to issue a Fawtah? ..unbelievable encroachment of freedom..what kind of God do they praise that does not allow hugging?
I will like to ask , if Isam is a violent religious as all that are read on news outlet about the conducts of the religion isalway associate with violence.
Ok, so at some point in time the government of Pakistan will have to go in and arrest the two brothers and lock them up for their crimes. It's sad they are using children to protect themselves, but if they let it go on any longer there will be more children at risk. Sitting back and watching them break the law and terrorize people at random is a bad way to run a country.
Understand... this is ALL ABOUT CONTROL... and religion wants to control government in Pakistan. It shouldn't. It is the root of all wars...Only in a democracy can religion rule the hearts of people, and people may elect the ways of their heart through representative governments. But, let us remember, secularism can become a religion in itself the more it continues to kill of the Religious influence of the people.
Understand... this is ALL ABOUT CONTROL... and religion wants to control government in Pakistan. It shouldn't. It is the root of all wars...Only in a democracy can religion rule the hearts of people, and people may elect the ways of their heart through representative governments. But, let us remember, secularism can become a religion in itself the more it continues to kill of the Religious influence of the people.
Did Jenny even "read" this article. It was clear it was a female reporter from the text. Nevermind that her name is at the top of the column. There wasn't anything in the column that could be construed as racism, just stupidity by the reader!!!
John you are absolutly right! The government must go in, and do it soon. You cannot allow open rebellion in any country, especially a nuclear power.Radical Islam is a worse threat than the Nazis,and it's completly global.
Moderation is the answer in life . No body should impose their views on others. Exteremism is unacceptable and out of date . Live and let live in Peace ? Goodwill to others ! Enjoy Life ! Forget confrontation ! Victor !
In the Arab world they are called radicals, extremists. What should we call the religious right over here? They are doing the same thing here and get support for the government.
as all types of faith with hatred for one another life fails to be important only power God gave man his choice and all me have to show is death around the world wear as it got us children are the beginning and the
as all types of faith with hatred for one another life fails to be important only power God gave man his choice and all me have to show is death around the world where as it got us children are the beginning and the end
No one is looking at the roots of this radial Islamic support. You have to ask yourself why are these Islamist leaders becoming popular and support for them seems to be spreading in their neighborhoods. Why would such a restrictive conservative life be preferred over an open liberal society? This needs to be addressed at some point.
I dont know whats going on in Pakistan... but it surely is not talibanisation.... these are the simple rules of Islam... no Prostitution...so if the religon says NO..then there is no question left to argue.... cause everybody follows there religon... I dont think Bibel has ever allowed prostitution... same way Quran says no prostitution....
When will the world grow up. These bozos are so behind times is not funny. I for one am sick of readin everytime someone does not get their way, or stands up for what is right are called racist. The R card wont work anymore get over it. As for these morons who want to keep childeren as a shield and speak out against one government or another. If they stomr then then it turns public opinion against them if they do not then they are weak and the Terrorist will do other stuff.. If they want to threaten Suicide bombers fine they should start by using their own sons and own daughters instead of the good folk who have been duped by your false religous beliefs
Face it! We are engaged in a religious war. It is Judeo/Christian beliefs against strict Islamic beliefs. This is world-wide, from the Mosques of Lebanon to the Mosques of Malaysia. Wherever Islam is practiced, then this "hatred" of things non-islamic exists. The only reason one does not see more militancy in some areas has to do more with numbers of practitioners than moderation. There is no way to fight a war against religion or religious ideas. One has to fight against the cells or centers of the ideas and idiology and cut the head of the snake. A movement without leadership is a dead movement. Our weakness is that we always want to be politically correct or are afraid of world opinion. The time has come to say "to hell with world opinion" and do what it will take to rid the world of this scourge. I am opposed to killing, especially innocents, but there comes a time when those must either get away from harm or suffer its consequences. I think that carpet bombing of some of the cities and villages in Iraq and other Islamic "hot-spots" should be employed and those whose political and religious positions have placed them in harm's way should suffer the ultimate consequences for their behavior against us. If the Islam Mullahs and Clerics would keep their religion within their own countries and not "export" their unique form of hatred, then they should be left in peace and not be disturbed. Should the people who are, in our opinion, mistreated, want to rise up and overthrow them, then that is their option, but until that happens, leave them to their own ways. Who the hell are we to intervene and try to impose our thoughts and way of life on them? What hubris on our part. We in the U.S. have had two very brilliant leaders advise us about such things. George Washington told us not to get involved in foreign entanglements and Dwight Eisenhower told us to beware the "Military-Industrial" complex. What two more intelligent leaders to follow, yet we ignore their advice. When will our leaders learn?
OK,so tell me who is worse these brothers and their followers who want strictly to follow their islamic roots...and want their country to...or a Pakistani government...paralized by fear to do anything and when they do it is seen by many as just an attempt at self preservation or U.S. bidding??
Just drop a JDAM and end the nonsense. If anyone else objects, they get the same treatment. Islam, in the radical sense, is nonsense and a joke run by a few doucebags who didn't get enough attention from their mommies and daddies.
The fact boils down to the fact that there is no democracy. Everything for a common man is getting out of reach due to price inflation. Lawlessness and military influence has made the people agitated and they are willing to follow anyone other than the military dictators.
The reason all free-thinking people need to be guarded against the dangers of Islam is that, in its ugliest form, it forbids freedom of expression and thought. There are some people who are glad to have someone else tell them what to think, what to say and when and how to pray, but let's hope those people are always a small minority. True, there are countries, such as Turkey, where a balance has been struck between secularism and religion. But, what other religion would stone a woman to death for not having her head covered while sending monetary rewards to families of terrorists who blow up innocent men, women and children...often also muslims? What other religion permits one to shop for a mullah or imam who says it's okay to slaughter innocents in the name of God and you will be rewarded in paradise? Do Methodists go out and slaughter Catholics the way Sunnis and Shites do to each other? There can be no greater perversion of religion than what these people are doing. And they are exploiting our Bill of Rights to get their poisonous message out. But, you can be certain that, if 51% of voters put muslims in positions of power, your rights will be gone in a heartbeat.
these brothers are true practing muslims who want to follow the Quran and the sunnah.
If you are to have a democracy there must be a separation of religion and state. But you cannot force countries to adopt policy similar to the United States in order to keep peace in the world.
The demand of the brothers to enforce sharia law is completely unreasonable. I'm sure we all remember that guy last year who was almost EXECUTED because, under sharia law, it warrants the death penalty if you convert to another religion from Islam.
Isnt it time the world was rid of religion? Imagine - no judgement, persecution, victimization, pretentiousness, self importance ....... sigh.
It is pointless to try to understand a radicalized religion that is based on keeping women as chattle, that supports homicidal bombers as a means to a political end and that fully intends to Islamize the rest of the world, by force. Using children as shields is just another example of their cowardice and another example of what is wrong with Islam. The powers that be in the Islamic world need to modernize their thinking and their beliefs or at some point, Americans wil have no choicee but to fight them all to the death, of us or them. That is what all of this is about, it is an us or them situation, win or lose and this will most likey lead to World War III. Wake up, America, we cannot afford to lose this fight. If we do, we will lose everything we hold dear in the USA, including our lives. David B.
Is it not the Islamic way? It doesn't matter what the law says. The only law that matters is the law of islam. That by the way is what ever the person who is interpreting it wants it to be. If in that persons mind it is oh kay to kill anyone who doesn't think the same way that he or she does then it is oh kay. They are not being radical. They are being Islamic. "If you do not think as I think you must die." Symple as that. So what is the problem?
For all you posters above that are angry about this article. I must ask you to think about it. These Muslims are not only demanding that their point of view be recongnized. They are demanding that everyone must adhere to it. If this is not an extremist point of view then maybe you would be happy to support their kidnapping of police and use of children as body shields? I say execute the two brothers! In the old days we here in the united state would hang criminals like this. I say we made a mistake by not continuing this tradition of punishment.
Its the way the country will be run when those in power are afraid of the stupid freaks for islam. Bend over allah.
Okay, let's get something straight. Pakistan is becoming a shittier country every day because of these self-proclaimed, so called educated scholars and maulanas. This country has gone to the dogs, and people like the Laal Masjid Maulana are an insult to the very thing Islam stands for: Freedom. This could, however, be a stunt of the Musharraf government to show the US Government what will happen if he leaves, i.e., the sad extremism of Pakistani Society. I've lived between the US and Pakistan for the major part of my life, and I know that all these monkeys who are an insult to the religion and have made life for other decent Pakistanis harder need to be made an example out of; they should be shot dead.
Well, lets review the comments: Author is racist, their opinions should be valued, we are just as bad, it's the media's fault for printing his comments, its all a trick. And only 40% of American Muslims believe Muslim men were involved in 9-11. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, not their own facts.
yeah right, islam is the religion of peace. sure, what other religion has children strap bombs to themselves. Did the radical Jerry Falwell have suicide bombers at his disposal. How many people did his students kill in suicide bombings. Oh that's right "NONE". Islam is the religion of hate and they prove it everyday.
Quoting Get Real:"Articles like this just spread hatred. This is an example of how the American Media (at large) had portrayed all Pakistanis... as acid-throwing, women-hating, "radicals". This is the type of crap that leads to large misunderstandings amongst peoples, and eventually leads to war. MSNBC sucks for printing this crap. " SECOND THAT! Not only Pakistanis, but Muslims in general, and also people like the Chinese and other Eastern races. The media has developed this art of spinning and fooling the gullible American people who don't know and don't care to know about the outside World, at the expense of their well-being by artificially creating animosity between people. But people are now realizing NOT to trust these liars as they used to. Bloggers are giving the big media spinners jitters in their own backyard, and they are losing control on their own 'propaganda fiefdom' The time in near when there liars and distorters of facts will be chastized by the same people on whose eyes they used to pull wool.
It makes me want to laugh when I see the comments claiming Islam is not an extremist religion. What other religion believes you will get to heaven by strapping a bomb to your butt and blowing up everyone who doesn't believe in the same God? Why do Muslim men make women cover themselves from head to toe? Do they think a womens body is evil? Maybe Muslim men should cover their eyes instead of making women cover their bodies. And if Muslim men beleive they go to heaven and get 70 virgin women for blowing themselves up in a suicide bombing, what do women suicide bombers get? 70 virgin men?? What nonsense.
Are you people completely out of your skulls? How is calling these muslims radical considered racist? They abducted policemen and have children armed on top of a place of woeship and a CHILDREN'S LIBRARY!! To compare that to evangelicals is ridiculous. As crazy as evangelicals are, they are not violent like this group of crazy people. No religious belief is worth killing or abducting people over. Get a clue.
This reminds me of Waco, Texas. I think the Pakistan's government should storm and kill all the hijackers of religion and the country.
These modern day ayatollahs may be the ISI agents in disguise.They want to thwart the forces of progress in Pakistan/Afghnistan and even in their Secular and Democratic neighbor India.Their ultimate aim is to drive NATO and US forces out of Afghanistan so they can revert back to the dark ages.Bush should worry more about this region than itching to invade Iran.
I love the way the muslims have commented on this site. so I will comment on everybodys comments. 1. These two brothers are an obvious threat to any free democratic society. anyone who can't see that is an idiot. 2.) The author does not hate all muslims. IF someone beleives that they are an idiot. 3.) these radicals are worse than the evangelicals because these radicals are making threats to people as they do any time a government rejects their idea of how things should be. 4.) the idea that these agents are paid actors how uneducated do you have to be to even consider such an idea. Radicals are in most every country in the world now making threats and plans because they want the world to be totally islamic. and nothing less would satisfy them. 5. No American reporter of this level would make false accusations because they would lose their jobs and get sued for slander/liable. and Yes my typing sucks. lol
True democracy and freedom means: freedom to do as you wish, i.e religious beliefs, speech,thought, etc. It does not mean you have the right to tell others what or how to believe, pray, think, dress, etc. I am a white, hunting, fishing, midwestern, christian, but some of my best friends are Hindu and Islamic. What the WHOLE world needs is TOLERANCE of others opinions and lifestyles...
People,if religous nuts like this take over the Pakastani government(God forbid),how long untill some country(Islamic or not)gets nuked.Thats right.If they control the government they have there finger on the Atomic button.Pakistan has nukes.And our troops or in Iraq!It doesn't take a genius to figure out what could happen.Bye India,bye Iraq etc. all in the name of Allah.
islam is also proving that if you don"t do as they say they will blow you up in the streets . they don"t care for their children but for suicide missions .look around at euruope, they are threatening anyone that gets in their way , it is worse than any communisn that we fought in the past. their entry into the south america"s also showing their abilities of death to any one who says anything. watch the lebonnon news, they are killing each other in palistine, lebonnon Iraq . read QUARAN {9:11} it will show why this date is so important.and why america was attatted then. Mr Bush has it right .
Islamic state? We have a version of it in the USA.The minority in power ruling the country.When will the majority in the USA stand up and get rid of our terrorist govt?70 percent want bush out yet he is still in power.
They can't have it both ways. If the people want to follow their version of Islam, fine. But it shouldn't be imposed on the rest. Secular laws do not ban Islam, but Islamic law bans secular law. And using children is the hallmark of cowards.
This is just another story showing how Islam is a hate based religion. It has ensued fighting between groups for over a thousand years and will continue to do so in the future. It relies to heavily on the judgement of others.
If this story is true, if it is factual, the reason that you do not hear postivie stories about islam in the news, is because the Muslim population that does not prescribe to all the violence is quiet. They do not condemn the violence on a regular basis. Today, the icon of a Muslim is one who is capable of killing themselves and many innocent people as a suicide bomber, in the name of their god. As soon as you hear the term, "suicide bomber" , it means only one thing. A radical, misguided Muslim. Where is their humanity? I say that religion, for many people, has become a mental illness.
Every where you have bad or good people. I am not a mulsim but I have good muslim friends. They are like us. Don't use relegion as an example. Jews are worse than muslims.


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