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Forbidden City Starbucks not so obvious

Posted: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 8:09 AM
Filed Under:

By Adrienne Mong, NBC News Producer

With all the media hoopla over the existence of Starbucks in China’s Forbidden City, we reckoned it would be easy to find it.

We turned out to be wrong.

Cameraman Maurice Roper, researcher Ed Flanagan, and I had read up on the Starbucks site. We had to. The Forbidden City – one of China’s great national treasures that dates back to 1420 – covers over 2 million square feet. 

But we knew the Starbucks kiosk was somewhere around the Hall of Preserving Harmony, near a gift shop, and news reports spoke of crowds of foreign media staked out outside.

Even if we got lost, surely, we thought, there would be a readily identifiable green circular logo.

Locating the Hall of Preserving Harmony was straightforward. Being a World Heritage site that draws nearly 9 million visitors a year, the Forbidden City is well signposted in Chinese and English.

Tourists drink coffee in the Starbucks c
Peter Parks / AFP - Getty Images
Tourists drink coffee in the Starbucks coffee shop in Beijing's Forbidden City on Jan. 19.

But nowhere was there Starbucks or a tell-tale crowd of journalists. Signs indicating a "coffee shop" in the general vicinity led us to two stands: one was shut, the other bore none of the familiar green and white hallmarks.

It wasn't until Ed spotted a Starbucks paper cup through a dusty window that we realized we were in fact standing right outside the kiosk.

No trademark green sign posts here
The Starbucks that some Chinese have been decrying so loudly as "trampling Chinese culture" is indiscernible – especially to untrained eyes likes ours – from the many restored buildings around the Imperial courtyard.  It's housed inside the Palace Museum Gift Shop and lacks any Starbucks signage.

"Starbucks's existence doesn't affect the Forbidden City's features or style," says Chen Yu.

He should know; he works at the National Museum.  And because of the proximity of his office to the Forbidden City, sometimes walks past the Starbucks kiosk. "I think Starbucks gives people another choice, and Starbucks never hurt the Forbidden City so why don't we give Starbucks a little place in the Forbidden City."

Of course, many Chinese believe differently. For instance, Annie Wei – a recent college graduate – says the Starbucks inside the Forbidden City should be replaced with a Chinese-run teahouse.

Adrienne Mong / NBC News
This building houses not only the well-signposted official gift shop inside China's legendary Forbidden City, but also a not-so-visible Starbucks coffee shop.

But columnist Raymond Zhou, an observer of social change in China, argues, "The Chinese culture is strong enough, rich enough to incorporate what is good, beneficial to us and to…humankind."

Apparently so. As Chen from the National Museum prepared to leave our bureau after our interview, we offered to take him back home. But he said that he was meeting a friend nearby. Where? At the Starbucks just across the road.

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Comments

I was in the forbidden city about 6 months ago and there was a starbucks sign. It was without the usual logo, but there was a sign that said "STARBUCKS COFFEE". They must have pulled it down recently. I have a piocture of the sign, should anyone wnat to see it.

Jason Brenner (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 9:27 AM)

Thank goodness that sign didn't show. That would have been ferociously tacky and out of place. From whithin the Forbidden City, you can see no modern signs of life outside. One reason is because, when China asked IM Pei to design a skyscraper nearby, he refused to make it as high as originally specified, or otherwise you'd see it from inside. This has preserved the feeling you get in that absolutely unique and amazing place.

Emory Anderson, London (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 10:29 AM)

I was at the Starbucks in the Forbidden City 7 months ago and the sign was there. The workers became angry when we took pictures of the place. No pictures were allowed inside. It is VERY small in there.

Jen, Chicago (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 10:55 AM)

I first visited the Forbiden City in 1946,it was in bad repair but still awe inspiring as was much of Peiking history.Its a shame to see it comercialized,especially with a gift shop and a western coffee shop.Age prevents my return.

Bill Shorey,Millinocket,Maine (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 10:58 AM)

I was there in late Frb '06 and the it was clearly labled Starbucks Coffee. My Wife and I laughed at the fact that it was so out of place. Infact it was one of the first western chains we saw in China.

Ted Albert, Oklahoma City, OK (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 10:59 AM)

I was in the Forbidden City in September 2005, and "Starbucks Coffee" was clearly visible in large letters across the top of the building. They must have removed it in their efforts to ready the city and historical sites for the 2008 Olympics.

Amanda (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 11:11 AM)

I went to the Forbidden City three times during this past summer, and couldnt find the Starbucks. With the mystery and allure of the Forbidden City, its disappointing to know that they allowed a Western Corporation to commercialize the place. I truly with it wasnt there.

Aaron Hurvitz (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 11:12 AM)

I agree with the woman who believes that there should be a Chinese-owned tea house in the Forbidden City instead of a Starbucks. Imagine the uproar if we put a French-owned bistro in the White House or some other great American icon. Americans really do have ridiculous kneejerk nationalistic tendencies, but they never understand that people in other countries feel the same way. By the same token, if I went all the way to China to get a sense of Chinese history and, I'll admit it, a taste of the exotic, I would be very, very disappointed to see a Starbucks in the Forbidden City.

Kraig Blackwelder, Chicago, Illinois (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 11:26 AM)

I visited the Forbidden City in July of 2004 and was heartbroken to see the familiar Starbucks logo within the walls. I too have a picture of a clearly marked Starbucks sign on the window. It was disappointing to see how far American culture can creep.

Tracy, Chicago, IL (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 11:50 AM)

who really cares, I want to see something I buy made in USA instead of china. Some day they might own us.

John S.,orlando,FL. (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 11:54 AM)

I visited the Forbidden City around Spring 2006 and I also stumbled upon the Starbucks as well by accident. If I recall correctly, the store is on the east side, just north of the Archery Pavillion. It is very easy to miss, because the only indication of a Starbucks there are the words "Starbucks Coffee" in English and Chinese on the top window in front. In fact, the first time I saw it, I thought that it must have been some sort of rip-off of Starbucks because the sign actually looked kind of old and dusty, so I was shocked when I went inside and realized that it was actually a Starbucks. I've gotten quite a bit of mileage telling that story to people over the past year!

Steven Soo, Los Angeles (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 12:17 PM)

Its too bad companies like Starbucks dont show the same consideration in the U.S. Commercialism, American style could learn a lesson from this. The design of a McDonalds or other franchise is often over exaggerated, ugly and disparite from the surrounding buildings or architecture. It would seem in China that that sort of marketing has been proven unnecassary. The fact that there is a Starbucks in a museum in the Forbidden City is of little consequence. "It's housed inside the Palace Museum Gift Shop and lacks any Starbucks signage." I bet there are plenty of similar vendors in many American museums or near national monuments. There is nothing what so ever wrong with that. The point is as long as they limit thier signage and dont corrupt or disturb the surrounding design then they are not commercialising the Forbidden city with western corporate influence. That is just anti-capitolistic, anti-American nonsense. They are providing a service that is clearly in demand. Period.

Astrochronic (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 12:19 PM)

If the Chinese people didn't buy the coffee, the store would not be there. You're disappointed to see how far American culture can creep? Really? The Chinese love American culture. They love blue jeans, Pizza Hut, and American movies... And lucky for me a lot of the girls like American men. :) Why do you think the Chinese love American culture and you don't? Stop wallowing in your own mis-placed guilt and be thankful you live in a country that other people want to emulate.

Edward, Houston, Texas (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 12:22 PM)

I went with a group from my school (DePauw University) to China this past month. While in the Forbidden City, I did not personally see the sign or any indication of Starbucks. I can see how Starbucks in the Forbidden City could be viewed in two different ways. The first being it is a place full of history and beauty. It truly is a place of its own, matched by nothing I have seen. However, the opposing viewpoint could also be that China is a place full of history. Everywhere we visited we were overwhelmed with the amount of history and detail of the architecture and knowledge. Yet, there were Starbucks everywhere. I agree that the Forbidden City is an amazing place that should be preserved, but I can understand the other side of the argument as well.

Randall Heyde, Rochester, Indiana (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 12:22 PM)

My wife and I were in the Forbidden City in August of 2001 and still recall our surprise at finding Starbucks there. Though it clearly seemd out of place, we were glad at least that it was tucked away in part of the local architecture. I do recall seeing a sign, though.

Shawn B., Laramie, Wyoming (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 12:24 PM)

To the people who are against the Starbucks in the Chinese Forbidden City, funny that they are so opposed to this, but somehow its okay for every item to buy to say "Made in China". Can't we see a little equilibium here?

Penny O (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 12:25 PM)

At $5 + a cup of coffee WHO can afford to go to China??? But honestly... from reading some of the other entries it seems as if it is a big draw item in the ancient city..sounds like a good investment to help draw people into the place. Just a thought.

Scott ,Louisville, Ky. (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 12:29 PM)

I am not one bit saddened, demoralised or disheartened by an American company opening shop in the Forbidden City. I am more disturbed by the fact that we have such a huge trade defecit with China and everything seems to be made in China these days. Good for Starbucks. I wonder how they managed to negotiate such a contract. It would seem like a bit of an accomplishment. Maybe we should be congradulating Starbucks and China on thier ability to comprimise on such a sensitive dilemma instead of condemning all things of corporate America and decrying the imagined "contamination" of the Forbidden city. It would be a welcomed and familiar sight for me. I would be stuck by the cooperation between cultures not by the mispercieved "audacity" of American capitalism.

Astrochronic (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 12:30 PM)

Does it truly matter? Let the Chinese people/ Chinese government decide on their own capitialistic business's to open. It doesn't seem to have all the unnecessary signage to block the historical beauty of the "Forbidden City".

Jimbo A.,Northville,Mich (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 12:47 PM)

Yes, Virginia, there is a Starbucks in the Forbidden City. I was there in April and stumbled upon it on a cold and rainy day but it closes early so it was empty. I was shocked to see a symbol of American culture in a place with so much importance to the Chinese but I was more suprised by the fact that the signs describing most buildings in the Forbidden City were sponsored by American Express! I have pictures to prove it.

Jason Budday, Raleigh, NC (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 12:53 PM)

I've never been to China; however, I will say whenever I do go someplace unfamiliar, Starbucks is one of the first things I look for. I think it would put a smile on my face to see such a familiar place so far away from home. I also don't find it offensive when they serve chinese food in our cafeteria at the GM plant in Spring Hill!

Martha Garland, Columbia TN (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:01 PM)

Okay, I'm not exactly the biggest fan of Starbucks. I'm a much bigger fan of cultural preservation. In fact, I spend a number of hours per week in my hobby of translating Chinese books to English. However, I'm something of a realist. Maintaining China's vast physical heritage is very expensive. I believe a limited amount of controlled commercial development in heritage sights should be allowable. If rent from Starbucks allows for maintenance that otherwise wouldn't happen, it is probably the lesser evil. The few times I've been to the Forbidden City in the late 90's, there were soft-drink vendor carts selling various Chinese and Western brand drinks, so branding is not exactly new there. For anyone who has never visited the Forbidden City, it consists of a number of large halls in a walled compound. There are numerous outbuildings attached to the walls, which were used as guardrooms, storage, offices for minor functionaries, etc. At the time I was there, most of these outbuildings were empty and closed off. A few were converted to washrooms and maintenance functions such as electric junctions for lighting the large halls. If the Starbucks was in a main hall, or if a new building was built to house it, I'd have a complaint. However, it seems to be in one of the minor outbuildings, which would otherwise be empty, and inconspicuous. Flush toilets and electricity weren't part of the original plan or function either, but I don't hear anyone complaining about their (likely more destructive) addition. While I'd prefer a traditional tea house as well as the Starbucks, in my opinion the criteria for what businesses should be allowed inside heritage properties is their overall "corporate citizenship"; ie, whether or not they are evil. As far as coffee companies go, Starbucks at worst falls into the "least evil" category. Many of my favourite corporate targets, such as Starbucks, KFC & Walmart, tend to be among the best unskilled service jobs available in China.

Jeffrey Quinn, Regina, Canada (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:03 PM)

The obvious thought here is the government of China thinks an American style coffee will somehow seduce the minds of the people of the Forbidden City. Gasp, they may drink less green tea. Choice can be dangerous. The next thing might be people demanding the right to vote or something crazy like that. It seems the only American culture the government there likes is the greenback.

Ed O (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:03 PM)

To Edward, Houston, Texas: I really like your commnets. I read it again and again. I have no commnets; I smile, and I am still smiling. Well done.

G. Yeo, Calgary, Canada (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:41 PM)

My husband and I were there last April.We were very surprised to see it in such a revered place. We were even more surprised to see a lot of the Chinese visitors drinking it while they toured the "The Forbidden City". We didn't imbibe it though!!

Patricia Sheffield Houston, Texas (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:43 PM)

Personally, I don't like their coffee so I could care less if it stays or goes!!! Now dunkin donuts - that's a great cup of JAVA in my mind!

Mark R. (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:00 PM)

I don't really see what all the hoopla is about. It isn't as though Starbucks could have put the store there by force. Since the Chinese allowed the store to be there why do some of you feel it is such a "shame" that Starbucks would dare to operate there. The Chinese Govt obviously doesn't object to it being there. Sounds like a bunch of "Westerner" bashing to me.....

John Salayda, Franklinville, NJ (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:07 PM)

This isn't such a new story, I'm afraid. I was in China in September 2005 and took this photo: http://international.sdstate.edu/digitalimagery/Starbucks%20in%20the%20Forbidden%20City.jpg

Karl Schmidt, Brookings, South Dakota (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:14 PM)

Let me turn the issue around...If a Chinese company wanted to put a sign on the Statue of Liberty you would all be outraged...

Vincent, New York, NY (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:14 PM)

If they don't want a Starbucks in the Forbidden City, they should remove it. Case closed. Sign or no sign, doesn't matter. If it's such a problem, remove the store. duh.

Eric (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:36 PM)

I'm glad that the look and feel and tradition was preserved. When my husband and I went to London, we were disappointed at all the Starbucks and Burger King signage everywhere. We kept saying, "THIS is not British!"

Nan, Colorado Springs (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:38 PM)

It's interesting that everyone seems uncomfortable with the presence of Starbucks in the forbidden city, but no one says exactly why other than "it looks tacky". I guess everyone latently recognizes that the homogenization of culture is leading to the destruction of difference--a global system of total equivalence. Soon culture will just mean that the Starbucks you're in will have different wallpaper patterns. Capital will continue to destroy the symbolic, but maybe only temporarily...

Kyle Burk (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:48 PM)

As a Starbucks employee, I have yet to work for a company that cares so much about their product/service and employees. Because of this, I'm always extremely happy when I hear about other Starbucks opening up around the world and offering new jobs.

Emily M., Orlando, FL (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 3:42 PM)

I was there in 2005, and it isn't easy to find because you pretty much have to go through the entire tour before you get there. I wasn't expecting it, but it was a welcome site as I needed an iced mocha and there it was! I even bought a t-shirt there as I was so surprised.

Sandy, Selah, Wash. (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 3:44 PM)

Well, someone in China thought Starbucks in the Forbidden City was a good idea - and probobly made some $$ off the deal...it is a shame about commercialism in places such as this - but don't blame the USA as a whole for Starbucks Executives taking another chance at global expansion - buisness is business and it pisses some people off - and doesn't raise an eyebrow for others.

AJK Northern New York (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 3:49 PM)

Ho-hum. Much ado about nothing. Why is everyone so upset about another drug and its addicts? (Ooo! Did I blaspheme against the sacred dirty brown bean-water brew?) Besides, eventually China will own Starbucks (and everything else) and the familiar twin tails will be replaced with hands holding guns to the mermaid's head.

Jonathan (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 4:01 PM)

My wife who is from the Canton District took me to Beijing back in 2004 and the second day there we traveled to the forbidden city which she as a young college student had been to several times back in the mid 90's. As we were looking around outside the city and about to enter it I made a dopey little comment to her about how I would go nuts if we were to walk into the Forbidden City and find a starbucks. Ha, Ha 40 minutes into our walk around the city this being October and a bit chilly to me since I am from Hawaii I said lets see if we can find a place to get a warm cup of tea and then all of a sudden right near the Hall of Preserving Harmony I FREAK and say "honey look behind you" and she just erupts in laughter as we see clearly in the window you have pictured up above the vinyl logo of Starbucks. So yes it is there and yes they have taken down the logo but there was also a movable sign outside the front door. By the way out of all of the starbucks I have ever been to, there’s was the best dam cup of Joe I have ever tasted. Maybe it’s because I haven’t been in cold weather in a long time. I do remember an article I read stating that Starbucks goal was to really have a shop on every corner in the world, looks like they’re really trying to do it. But come on what’s next? I am going back this winter in 2007 just before the Olympics go there am I going to find a McDonalds across from the Starbuck’s in the Forbidden City? I can tell you Chinese LOVE McDonalds. God help us all... Corporate America is killing old fasion Values and Culture

Matthew w. Nichols, Mililani, Hawaii (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 4:14 PM)

I visited the Forbidden City while in Peiping on 31 August and 1 September 1948. I do not recall any type of business being operated within the Forbidden City. I had never heard of Starbucks but with vodka at .25 cents (American equivalant to China rate of 12,000,000 yuen to $1.00 American) a bottle who would be drinking coffee.

Buddy Viers Sherman, Texas (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 4:28 PM)

When my wife and I were in the Forbidden City were amused at the site of a Starbucks. It was the only decent place to get a refreshment and they had great themed coffee mugs. So, why all the upset people? How different it this from other vendors at museums and cultural sites? I think those that are demanding the removal of this store are being a hypocritical.

Richard Oberreiter, Newport Beach, CA (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 4:35 PM)

its ok for the chianese to open stores in the u.s.a but god forbid we open somting in china. the hell with china BUY AMERICAN

MICHAEL EAVENSON (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 4:44 PM)

While it may not fit with Chinese culture, obviously SOME authority in China approved the Starbucks location. That said, I wish Americans would stop being so PC - showing so much deference and respect for other cultures and so little for our own. Almost everything we buy is stamped made in China. U.S. Manufacturing is almost non-existent but we're so worried about Starbucks coffee at the Forbidden City? Give me a break.

Stella Gee (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 5:04 PM)

Let's face it, we are talking about a society that is still communist. The Chinese would remove the store if they felt like it. We all might agree that a huge sign or anything of the sort would be heinous whether it was on Lady Liberty, the Forbidden City, or any historical site. But if they locate it somewhere out of the way, and by all accounts it is not that easy to find, then who cares. The need is there and almost everyone knows what supply and demand is. Let's use our head people.

Luis. P, Miami, FL (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 5:27 PM)

The old saying is "I would walk a mile for a Starbucks" or something like that. Now the saying goes "I would walk 10,000 miles.... Good to see they enjoy a good coffee too. Cheers

Keith Cash, Montevallo Alabama (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 5:37 PM)

Edward from Houston, Texas sums it up best.

Jim, Southern California (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 5:38 PM)

Last summer I visited the shop with my wife and daughter. I knew it was a Starbucks because my daughter had been there before, but I cannot recall seeing an outdoor sign. The coffee was definitely Starbucks. The gift shop inside was really nice.

Bill Smith, Chicago, Illinois (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 5:45 PM)

I am convinced that anyone whining about how awful it is to have Starbucks in the Forbidden City hasn't actually been there. The Forbidden City isn't a single monument - it's a precinct within a large city. 175 Acres. Building after building, block after block. It's not just huge, it's enormous. This is not akin to putting a logo on the Statue of Liberty or opening a French Bistro in the White House. The aforementioned are monuments. The Forbidden City is a district and it has its own monuments, too. The Starbucks in the Forbidden City is tucked in a corner, deep in the city. (As a result, it is hard to find, but not impossible.) As examples, do you think there isn't a Starbucks within a few blocks of the White House? Ever notice that there is a McDonald’s within blocks of almost every major tourist destination around the world? This is not new - this has been happening for decades. (P.S. - The sign was definitely there in August 2006. I saw it.)

Bob, Bethesda, MD (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 6:23 PM)

I visited the forbidden city in March of '06. I happened to stumble upon quite on accident, but when I was there it had the classic green star bucks sign and was clearly visible, but with China it's impossible to say what's changed and what's stayed the same.

Cameron Crandall Coeur d'Alene, Idaho (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 6:45 PM)

I think it's great that a little piece of America made it into the most sacred place in China. USA! USA! USA!

Stephen Maltempi, Jersey City, NJ (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 7:21 PM)

I am going to China in a fwe months and one of the sights I have planned is a trip to the Forbidden City. I am appaled and disgusted with the greed of the Starbucks company. It is one thing to have a kiosk outside or arround the city, it is compleetly another to have one in it. This is a world history site that should be treated with revrence, not prostituted.

Katie, Newport Beach, Ca (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 8:02 PM)

While it was novel to be in west Germany and have a Quarter Pounder with Cheese(tm) and a Beer, I would not go to the Forbidden City for a Starbucks, but then I wouldn't go to Starbucks anywhere else either. I am amused that this is getting so much American press, let the Chinese decide if they want the store or not. Let's face it, we can't run the whole world, yet.

John D. (Sent Tuesday, January 30, 2007 10:49 PM)



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